# Battlestar Galactica - 1.1- \*Open Spoilers\* - "33" - the plot **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 4, 2011, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129 "2011-04-04T11:29:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/101 "2011-04-07T15:25:00Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It wasn’t decommissioned. Try again. I really don’t see it as a stretch to assume that decommissioning is a process (likely a weeks- or months-long one), and not a magic moment when _poof_ all the ammo and crew are teleported off to some other ship, but in the meantime, right up to that magic moment, the full complement of everything are still there. It _was_ being decommissioned, and I can’t imagine how you could watch the mini-series and not get that. They were actually having a decommissioning ceremony right before the Cylon attack. How can you interpret that as anything other than decommissioning and conversion to a museum – which _was_ explicit in the dialogue. Sure, there were people there. Loads and loads of them were civvies, not crew. That was explicit, too. The Cylon was representing himself as a PR guy, not a pilot. There were dignitaries coming in for the ceremony. _Gallactica_ was docked, and no one intended for her to fly again. They were close enough to finishing the decommissioning that they were having a ceremony to mark it. I can’t imagine why you _wouldn’t_ start re-assigning crew to active vessels over the last several weeks. As for even the civvies knowing enough advanced math for the FTL calculations – I also don’t think it’s much of a stretch to assume that standard calculations for established trade routes in the known universe are a **hell** of a lot different than making calculations into unmapped, unknown territory. Why wouldn’t a civilization advanced enough to have FTL drives have a standard nav book of standard trade/travel routes between the colony planets, so the civvies just plug in the published numbers and away they go? Why reinvent the wheel every single time a ship needed to haul ore from one planet to another? Running from Cylons into unexplored space is something _no one had done before._ Of course it’s harder. It’s pretty self-evident that it would be. This is why I’m convinced you didn’t watch or weren’t paying attention. This stuff was all either laid out explicitly, or was self-evident and doesn’t require any kind of great leaps of logic. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/102 "2011-04-07T15:43:58Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You’re calling me thick and irrational (what does resorting to calling me names say?) It says that your opinion is so out of whack with what is obvious to 99.9% of the viewers of the show that a reasonable person might wonder if you a) are somehow mentally dificient, b) have never actually watched the show or c) are being willfully obtuse for the purpose of starting some sort of argument. And given your tone in previous posts, that’s a bit pot calling the kettle black. > [@Princhester](#): > > but take a breath and read what you just typed. You seem, in all seriousness, to be saying that my point of view about the state of BG at the time of the incident in question is wrong because of what “they were going to” do. You may be right. So what? > > You are saying that they didn’t have _two_ (count them, _two_) extra staff out of 2000 to replace absolutely crucial flight deck roles after 100 hours, because at some later time the ship was going to be turned in to a fully function museum. Does anything about your contention seem odd to you? Do you actually think your conclusion follows from your premise? I cannot surmise the military procedures for the operation of non-existent technology of a make-believe space navy in a fantasy setting. Suffice to say, for whatever reason, at that particular point in the timeline of the show, there was only one person on board the Galactica who had the technical training to jump the ship and it’s rag tag fleet every half hour for days on end. It is of little concert to me if the reason for it is because the second shift was killed in the attack, deemed unneccessary for a three hour decomissioning tour, out sick, on holiday or taking a long shit. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/103 "2011-04-07T15:48:44Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > It is of little concert to me if the reason for it is because the second shift was killed in the attack, deemed unneccessary for a three hour decomissioning tour, out sick, on holiday or **taking a long shit**. For 100 hours?!? :eek: Man, MREs really back you up, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/104 "2011-04-07T15:56:22Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > It is of little concert to me if the reason for it is because the second shift was killed in the attack, deemed unneccessary for a three hour decomissioning tour, out sick, on holiday or taking a long shit. This made me laugh, but it’s true. 😃 There’s just no reason to bog the episode down in explaining details like this: it’s not germane to the plot, it’s a distraction from the primary story arc, it would slow the pacing (and in an ep like this especially, kill the pacing and you kill the story), it would add to the running time, and if you really need to know why, make something up that you’re happy with. It’s okay, really. Ron Moore even said so. And it’s just _not that important_ to the story that we’re (supposed to be) focused on. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/105 "2011-04-07T17:26:24Z")
And let’s just set this whole argument about shifts aside and conclude (as most stories do) with Baltar. Baltar was exhausted. He looked worst off than most people than Galactica. And what was he doing, other than pretending to have a Cylon detector? Absolutely nothing. The whole point of that scene at the beginning with him, was to show that NO ONE could any decent sleep, even those who didn’t have a job to do. At most, it was like drifting off for 10-15 minutes at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/106 "2011-04-07T17:39:01Z")
Quoth **Princhester** : > [@](#): > > Every member of the fleet had someone on board who could calculated FTL jumps, as they were all FTL capable ships. It can’t be that rare of a skill. It seems to me monumentally improbable that there was no spare FTL calculating capacity. Those were civilian ships, and folks with the training to plot FTL jumps have to be expensive. If the one guy on a civilian ship who can plot a jump is out sick or something, you just delay the flight, or bring in one of the handful of guys the entire company has on payroll as replacements. You don’t worry about having multiple shifts, because you just arrange the shifts and the jumps to match each other. So you’ve got a maximum of one FTL guy per ship, in the civilian fleet, and they’ve all got calculations to do for their own ships. Plus, you’d be hard-pressed to get any of them over to Galactica to relieve Gaeta, with only a 33 minute window for shuttlecraft, and if something goes wrong with the shuttle, you’ve lost a very valuable member of your personnel. Quoth **Raguleader** : > [@](#): > > Oh, and we see her boinking one of her subordinates, which isn’t typically indicative of a quality officer. Remember: Even Captain Kirk, with his reputation, never seemed to consider tapping Yeoman Rand. And in fact, most of the crew (including the exec and probably the skipper) knew about it, but didn’t bother raising a stink because everyone knew they were getting mothballed anyway. Quoth **Kaio** : > [@](#): > > As for even the civvies knowing enough advanced math for the FTL calculations – I also don’t think it’s much of a stretch to assume that standard calculations for established trade routes in the known universe are a hell of a lot different than making calculations into unmapped, unknown territory. Why wouldn’t a civilization advanced enough to have FTL drives have a standard nav book of standard trade/travel routes between the colony planets, so the civvies just plug in the published numbers and away they go? Why reinvent the wheel every single time a ship needed to haul ore from one planet to another? Running from Cylons into unexplored space is something no one had done before. Of course it’s harder. It’s pretty self-evident that it would be. In the miniseries, when Adama shows on the map where he wants to jump to, one of the officers protests “But that’s beyond the Red Line!”, with the implication that going that far out would entail navigational difficulties. Oh, and quoth **enalzi** : > [@](#): > > And what was he doing, other than pretending to have a Cylon detector? Absolutely nothing. Well, that and fraking his imaginary friend. I imagine that Six could keep almost any man exhausted if she put in an effort at it. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/107 "2011-04-07T17:55:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and quoth **enalzi** :Well, that and fraking his imaginary friend. I imagine that Six could keep almost any man exhausted if she put in an effort at it. Yeah, but he could do that awake as well - or better - than he could asleep. I’m rewatching the whole series, as I mentioned, and Baltar dealing with Six around other people is even funnier the second time. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/108 "2011-04-07T17:59:43Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > I’m rewatching the whole series, as I mentioned, and Baltar dealing with Six around other people is even funnier the second time. I just recently got around to watching BSG. I saw the miniseries back when it first aired, but I never watched the rest of the show. I remember the whole Head Six thing really turned me off. It seemed out of place and done for a cheap laugh. It wasn’t until about halfway through season 1 that I realized how great it was, to the point where I didn’t like episodes without them. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/109 "2011-04-07T18:10:55Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You’re calling me thick and irrational … I wouldn’t say that you’re irrational. If anything you’re probably too rational for this kind of sci-fi fare. I’d suggest you relax a bit and enjoy BSG for what it really is – a great drama about very interesting people doing the best they can under extreme conditions. Add to that Cylons, Tricia Helfer, and Grace Park and you can’t stop watching! If you encounter some inconsistency in an episode, make a snide remark about it to Mrs. P, have a good laugh, then let it go. The BSG adventure is a wonderful ride all the way to the end, but not if you nitpick details to death. Like I said before, if you’re this picky now, it’s gonna be a real bitch at the end. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/110 "2011-04-07T19:34:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Princhester** :Those were civilian ships, and folks with the training to plot FTL jumps have to be expensive. If the one guy on a civilian ship who can plot a jump is out sick or something, you just delay the flight, or bring in one of the handful of guys the entire company has on payroll as replacements. You don’t worry about having multiple shifts, because you just arrange the shifts and the jumps to match each other. So you’ve got a maximum of one FTL guy per ship, in the civilian fleet, and they’ve all got calculations to do for their own ships. Plus, you’d be hard-pressed to get any of them over to Galactica to relieve Gaeta, with only a 33 minute window for shuttlecraft, and if something goes wrong with the shuttle, you’ve lost a very valuable member of your personnel. If you really want to get picky, the Raptor shuttles are all FTL capable. So that means there are at least as many FTL drive capable pilots as there are raptor crews on the Galactica. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/111 "2011-04-07T19:42:57Z")
I seem to recall an episode where Raptors collided immediately after a jump though, so it’s not easy, particularly when you’ve got multiple (30ish?) ships that you want in the same general area, but not so close that they’re colliding into each other (or appearing inside each other, or appearing inside that nearby star that you don’t have a map for). And I imagine the pilots were busy with defense. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/112 "2011-04-07T19:51:24Z")
Raptors had computers to help with the nav jumps - Galactica - at the orders of Adama - had no networked systems - so, the computers were unable to do thier thing in the timely fashion. As for relieveing the crew - there literally was NO TIME to relieve the crew between jumps - it was shown pretty conclusively tthat it took the full 33 minutes of full court press to get the calculations needed and the information dispersed. In that situation, with those crew - you don’t take someone off line that is literally critical to survival - they’ll get to sleep when they escape, or when they are dead - whichever comes first. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/113 "2011-04-07T20:30:19Z")
> [@](#): > > If you really want to get picky, the Raptor shuttles are all FTL capable. So that means there are at least as many FTL drive capable pilots as there are raptor crews on the Galactica. Yes, but short jumps only, and the limitation there is explicitly navigational, not power usage. There are probably shortcuts and approximations in the calculations that can be used for those short jumps but not for long ones. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/114 "2011-04-07T20:50:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, but short jumps only, and the limitation there is explicitly navigational, not power usage. There are probably shortcuts and approximations in the calculations that can be used for those short jumps but not for long ones. Plus, except for emergency situations, it usually seems like they have all the jump coordinates ahead of time. Or it’s one Raptor relaying the coordinates to the rest of them. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/115 "2011-04-08T14:20:54Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > As for why only the one guy plotting the jumps, it’s because they don’t know who might be a Cylon, and he’s one of the few people in on the secret so far. They don’t want to spread the responsibility around and risk having one of them be a Cylon. Adama trusts him, so he’s the guy who runs the jumps. Maybe not the smartest move in hindsight, but hey, humans make mistakes. Ooh. I hadn’t even thought about that. All the Cylons need is to get a sleeper into position plotting the jumps, and _poof_! The fleet jumps maybe one light-centon. So Adama has to use somebody he can trust. For survival reasons, _there’s nobody else available to plot the jumps._ Short-handed and operational security paranoid with good reason makes for 100 hour shifts. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/116 "2011-04-08T14:32:59Z")
Well, not to nitpick a thread that is already dying the death of a thousand nitpicks, but did the humans know at that point that Cylons could look like humans? (Obviously Baltar knew, but he doesn’t count.) Or wait, did they explain that in the miniseries? I can’t remember, but I have the vague feeling that it was a little ways into the first season before everyone found out, holy crap, the Cylons can look like us now. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/117 "2011-04-08T14:43:46Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Or wait, did they explain that in the miniseries? I can’t remember, but I have the vague feeling that it was a little ways into the first season before everyone found out, holy crap, the Cylons can look like us now. Yup, remember Doral in the weapons base? Also, the miniseries ends with Adama finding a note that “there are 12 models”, just as it cuts back to the weapons base as 4 models walk through the door, including Boomer. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/118 "2011-04-08T14:54:48Z")
Oh, right. For some reason I remembered the thing with Doral as happening in episode 2 or 3. My memory is going straight to hell now that I’m in my 30s. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/119 "2011-04-08T15:11:08Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Oh, right. For some reason I remembered the thing with Doral as happening in episode 2 or 3. My memory is going straight to hell now that I’m in my 30s. 😛 Actually, Adama fought/killed Leoben (#2) in Ragnar station in the miniseries. Doral (#5) was the PR guy that Baltar claimed was a Cylon to save himself, though he turned out to be right. At that point, only the military knew that Cylons looked like humans. In a later 1st season episode, another Doral sets of a suicide bomb inside the Galactica. As a result of that, knowing they have photos of 2 confirmed Cylons, they reveal the existence of humanoid Cylons to the rest of the fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129/120 "2011-04-08T15:22:43Z")
That’s right - it was Leoben. Thanks, muldoonthief! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-1-1-open-spoilers-33-the-plot/577129.md?page=7)