# Battlestar Galactica 2.10 — "Pegasus" (no spoilers in OP: see scheduling note) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126 "2005-09-23T21:10:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/41 "2005-09-24T19:17:31Z")
> [@Curate](#): > > OK, the admiral has had the opportunity to have all of her questions about the Galactica and its fleet answered after she read the logs. Now how about a few questions for the admiral? > > 1. You have a cylon prisoner. How did you identify her as such? Do you have a working Cylon detector, or did she do something to give herself away? > > 2. How did your ship and its fighters resist the Cylon software virus? > > 3. Is the admiral the CO of the Pegasus? There’s been a reference to the shot-in-the-head XO, but I got the impression that there’s nobody in between. Seems odd for an admiral to have been in command of her own ship. > > 4. That whole story of escaping the Cylon attack by jumping to who-knows-where seems fishy. Just sayin’… 1. I’m wonder if they didn’t toture her until she confessed, thus proving she’s a cylon. 2.Good question. 1. Perhaps the captain died with the other 900? Or perhaps since she’s offically head of the fleet, and the fleet is only one ship, then she’s running the ship, eliminating the middleman. 2. It does. And didn’t Adama account for the destruction of the fleet in the miniseries? There were reports coming about battlestars being lost all over and then an admiral aboard Atlantia(?) took command of the fleet, until that part was wiped out. Presumably he was the last admiral, and Adama’s last superior officer, so Adama took control of fleet. No quailfication of “Admiral Cain and the Pegasus is unaccounted for”, not that it proves anything. ---
**Author:** ![HelloKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecccb3/32.png) [@HelloKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelloKitty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/42 "2005-09-24T19:25:46Z")
Good questions, **Curate**!!! - Agreed that Tricia Helfer did a fabulous job in this episode. I thought it interesting the contrast between her nearly white blonde hair of Baltar’s Six and the dirty blonde of the Prisoner Six. Nice touch, moving scenes. - I wonder if Adama “forgot” to give the Admiral the part of the logs detailing the coup attempt? Or maybe Tighe spilled moonshine on them while Adama was still laid up? - Could the Pegasus crew have been less sympathetic??? No redeeming characteristics whatsoever, at least in the first impressions we were given. Fave dialoge from this show: Adama, dismissing Tighe’s story of Cain offing XO: “Ahh, you were both drunk!” Tighe: “Well, there’s no question about that…” I haven’t been this excited about a cliff hanger since the days of [Picard] “I am Locutus of Borg, Resistance is Futile” [Riker] “FIRE!!!” I will miss the weekly discussions!!! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/43 "2005-09-24T20:23:10Z")
Couple of thoughts: Read an interview recently with Tricia Helfer where she was asked whether she’d like to get to interact more with the other cast besides James Callis (Baltar). She said yes, she enjoyed the episode “Six Degrees of Separation” where another copy showed up and messed with the other crew, and she said she had a new plotline coming up she was really excited about that would give her this opportunity. I guess we know what it is now. And re the emotional dichotomy of (1) a helpless prisoner experiencing horrifying abuse because (2) she’s a representative of an unsympathetic enemy with grotesque, genocidal objectives: The show is obviously asking us a complicated, difficult question. Are we supposed to somehow actually _feel bad_ for a completely unforgivable (and inhuman) villain? Or can we condemn the tactics themselves as savage and indefensible solely on their merits while still feeling no sympathy for the individual they’re being done to? This is simultaneously a fascinating and yet enormously dangerous choice, as the show risks alienating us from _both sides_ of the conflict. This can have strange and unexpected effects in some viewers; for example, there’s a poster over on the aint-it-cool talkbalk boards who is arguing that Ron Moore, with this story, is attempting to “justify” rape as a military tactic. The poster apparently believes that it’s necessary to “choose sides” in a story, and since we obviously can’t choose the Cylon side, we’re forced to choose the human side, which means the show is saying “good guys can rape bad guys.” This is clearly a gross misreading of the story, but I think it arises directly from how conventional drama labels its heroes and villains, and how we thus emotionally identify with them. But that’s the risk when the storyteller makes dark, provocative choices; if you’re not careful, you make _everybody_ a villain, and people start checking out as the story becomes an unpleasant grind. Hasn’t happened here yet, but that is a possible trap. Given the way the show has developed so far, I have faith they’ll recognize and avoid it, but nevertheless it should be pointed out that the trap is there. But, all things considered, could this storyline be any more relevant to us in our modern age? Bottom line: can we be revolted by Abu Ghraib without “taking the terrorists’ side”? _Galactica_ was already very good, but with this installment it’s making a bid to be one of the very best shows currently on the air. > [@Curate](#): > > Now how about a few questions for the admiral? I’m really hoping Roslin steps up with exactly this line of inquiry when the show returns. Seems to me she let herself be pushed aside this episode because of her respect for (and, as she said, unfamiliarity with) military protocol, and as I suggested above, the situation seems ripe for her to reassert her authority. I’d love to see how Cain responds to the President calling her on the carpet, pretty much with exactly the questions you’ve listed. (However, I’ve decided that my initial take on how Roslin should insert herself into the conflict, above, isn’t dramatic or effective enough. Remember very early in the story, maybe even in the miniseries, when _Colonial One_ showed up unannounced that one time, demanding to dock in _Galactica_’s bay? They could do the same thing here; Cain’s getting ready to pull the trigger on Adama’s vipers, and her ops guy says, “Sir, new contact. _Colonial One_ is approaching. The President demands to see you, immediately.” And we have a moment where Cain looks into the faces of her crew to see whether she can get away with ordering them to shoot down the President’s ship; and based on their moment of hesitation we saw at the end of this show, she decides even that would be going too far. Conflict defused, temporarily. I’d totally buy that sequence.) > [@HelloKitty](#): > > I will miss the weekly discussions!!! If someone thinks of something good during the next four months (sob), I’m pretty sure we’ll have “topics for occasional debate,” like the recent “what do we actually know?” thread. I know I’ll sure be thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/44 "2005-09-24T20:24:33Z")
> [@Curate](#): > > 1. Is the admiral the CO of the Pegasus? There’s been a reference to the shot-in-the-head XO, but I got the impression that there’s nobody in between. Seems odd for an admiral to have been in command of her own ship. In describing the initial Cylon attack did she not say “My ExO had the watch?” ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/45 "2005-09-24T21:16:39Z")
> [@Curate](#): > > 1. How did your ship and its fighters resist the Cylon software virus? According to [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=Pegasus\_(episode)](http://www.battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=Pegasus_%28episode%29) There’s a deleted scene where Cain says that the computers were mostly disconnected because they were in spacedock. That would explain the lack of the virus. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/46 "2005-09-24T21:36:29Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > And we have a moment where Cain looks into the faces of her crew to see whether she can get away with ordering them to shoot down the President’s ship Surely you jest. The woman puts Kang to shame. Without a backwards glance, “Waste the school teacher.” ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/47 "2005-09-24T21:59:49Z")
That’s the other thing that bothered me. It just didn’t make sense for Cain to order her Vipers to engage Galactica at the end. As her XO said, it’s guaranteed to spiral out of control. That doesn’t suit her purpoises any more than Adama’s. There was **no reason whatsoever** not to try to defuse the situation by ordering a parley with Adama. Even from a purely tactical standpoint, if she’s determined to use force to swat him down, why not lure him into a false sense of security, then place him under arrest and preserve the military might of two intact Battlestars under her command? Some portion of Galactica’s crew would probably mutiny in suppost of Adama, but some fraction would recognize the chain of command (or dislaike Adama personally), and they would be backed by the entire weight of Cain’s marines and fighting crew. An insurection in support of Adama would be far less messy, less dangerous, and more easily controlled than an all-out ship-to-ship between two Battlestars. ---
**Author:** ![Aguecheek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Aguecheek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aguecheek)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/48 "2005-09-24T22:12:34Z")
Two thoughts off the top of my head for now: 1. I don’t think Cain will, for one second, accept the President’s authority. “The Secretary of Education…?” 2. Notice how after their initial happy get-together, Cain said to Adama “[w]elcome back to the Fleet,” rather than the other way around? ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/49 "2005-09-24T22:41:44Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > And re the emotional dichotomy of (1) a helpless prisoner experiencing horrifying abuse because (2) she’s a representative of an unsympathetic enemy with grotesque, genocidal objectives: The show is obviously asking us a complicated, difficult question. Are we supposed to somehow actually _feel bad_ for a completely unforgivable (and inhuman) villain? Or can we condemn the tactics themselves as savage and indefensible solely on their merits while still feeling no sympathy for the individual they’re being done to? Bear in mind there are multiple questions to be asked here. I think you can feel sympathy for the horrible individual who is herself being tortured, and still be somehow revolted that the particular individual, who has murdered millions, dares to express outrage and a sense of injustice herself. That is my point with Baltar. Were it a third party saying to him, “This is horrible,” I could see him agreeing. As it was Six expressing outrage and righteous indignation, as she has done far too often so far in my opinion, I would see anyone with even one screw left in his head saying, “Shut the fuck up.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/50 "2005-09-24T23:47:47Z")
I agree with the earlier comments about the torture theme in this ep. Introducing a theme that resonates so powerfully in our culture due to current events is the kind of writing that distinguishes the great writers from the mediocre writers. Oh, that and handling it intelligently. Somebody out there has a mind that is firing on all cylinders. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/51 "2005-09-24T23:54:53Z")
I seem to recall that when they were building the Blackbird there was a reference to installing an FTL drive. So maybe Starbuck’s unauthorized mission makes sense. > [@](#): > > Read an interview recently with Tricia Helfer where she was asked whether she’d like to get to interact more with the other cast besides James Callis (Baltar). She said yes, she enjoyed the episode “Six Degrees of Separation” where another copy showed up and messed with the other crew, and she said she had a new plotline coming up she was really excited about that would give her this opportunity. I guess we know what it is now. I was thinking about that episode; now, thanks to the prisoner aboard the _Pegasus_, everybody will know that the woman was a Cylon. I look forward to seeing what kind of conversation the copy of Number Six in the brig has with Dr. Baltar. It did seem rushed to me; would have been better as two episodes, more gradually building up to the face-off. However, they spared no effort in making the _Pegasus_ crew unlikeable; I hope Apollo gets to knock that CAG on his ass. And I’m not gonna cry over Lt. Thorne (the pig in a uniform who was about to rape Boomer). I liked seeing Tyrol and Helo doing something together. Interesting how the introduction of the other crew makes us (or me, anyway) realize how attached we’ve become to these characters. When Admiral Cain was telling Adama she was going to break up his crew, and was listing their various character flaws (impregnating an enemy robot – who hasn’t done that at some time?), I felt like defending them, even Tigh (yeah, he’s an asshole – but he’s _our_ asshole). ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/52 "2005-09-24T23:56:39Z")
Another note: if Baltar gets the Number Six in the brig to talk to him, maybe we’ll get some insight into the nature of the Number Six in his head. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/53 "2005-09-24T23:57:50Z")
Another note: if Baltar gets the Number Six in the brig to talk to him, maybe we’ll get some insight into the nature of the Number Six in his head. I’d also like to see scenes of Baltar not acting crazy or being led around by his dick, but really applying that big brain to a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/54 "2005-09-25T00:09:34Z")
> [@AerynSun](#): > > My answer is that the Pegasus crew was using torture and rape to put psychological pressure on Cylons, which implicitly admits that they view them as pretty much human and subject to human weaknesses. Perhaps they view them as being human enough to act and/or suffer as humans do, but not human enough to warrent any decent treatment as such—they’re _sub_human. Above the level of inanimate objects, but not at the level of “people.” On the other hand, as I remember, I heard a few Pegasus officers reffering to their prisoner as “It,” which you could read a few ways—that they did view Cylons as mere machines, or it might just have been them “thingifying” the prisoner. Facinating themes in that episode. Kinda brings to mind Poe—_There are chords in the hearts of the most reckless which cannot be touched without emotion. Even with the utterly lost, to whom life and death are equally jests, there are matters of which no jest can be made._ If the Prisoner Six had just been hanging from a strappado, or had her brain being methodically dissected or something, I probably wouldn’t have even batted an eyelash. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/55 "2005-09-25T00:10:25Z")
My 2¢: I don’t think we’ve heard the full story of how Pegasus escaped. For one thing, the draftee deck officer who was a civilian on another ship- what was it’s name again? I have a suspicion that it will turn out that Pegasus also ran into civilian ships begging for help, and that unlike Adama, Cain took what she wanted from them and told them to go to hell. I also suspect that Cain didn’t care as much about getting intelligence from their prisoner so much as she decided that having a helpless prisoner to degradate would pump up anti-Cylon hatred and contempt in her crew. (Did you see the faces of the Galactica’s female crew as they heard the Pegasus men bragging about raping their prisoner? Uh, hello guys, you’re in a gender-integrated service.) ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/56 "2005-09-25T00:41:34Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > And re the emotional dichotomy of (1) a helpless prisoner experiencing horrifying abuse because (2) she’s a representative of an unsympathetic enemy with grotesque, genocidal objectives: The show is obviously asking us a complicated, difficult question. Are we supposed to somehow actually feel bad for a completely unforgivable (and inhuman) villain? Or can we condemn the tactics themselves as savage and indefensible solely on their merits while still feeling no sympathy for the individual they’re being done to? Similarly, while I _hate_ Admiral Cain (probably made that abundantly clear in my first post), I also think that she (and her crew) have been through all kinds of hell and have snapped. Certainly the Galactica crew and the civilians have had character changing moments. There’s no reason to believe the crew of the Pegasus went through anything less dramatic. One major difference is that Galactica and the civilians had hope of keeping the human race going. As far as the Pegasus crew knew, they were the last survivors (plus maybe a few civilian ships they met along the way–but probably not enough to sustain the human race). All they had was the desire to strike back at their enemy as long as they could before they were destroyed themselves. It seems to me they’ve become nothing more than their fight. As mentioned, Cain didn’t seem to be interested in the fact they’d found evidence of earth and clues as to its location. Also, there was also nothing that showed they tried to find out if anyone they knew was still alive among the civilians. Cain’s immediate concerns were establishing her own authority and continuing the fight, nothing more. She showed little interest in the civilians (including barely acknowleging Roslin when they were together and then refusing to return her calls). I can hate them because what they are now is monstrous but still feel sorry for what happened to them. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/57 "2005-09-25T00:51:12Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Opal, I remember when you and I posted over on Sci-Fi’s First Wave page. I wan’t sure if you watched BSG or not. So, has Spence been hired to be a recurring character or has his career diminished to the point where he can only get very minor roles? > > After seeing him last night, I thought he’d have been a good choice to be Apollo. He’d be a good choice to play my blanket warmer. Oh, did I say that out loud?? Anyway I don’t know if he’s going to be a regular character or not. His official homepage is even more out of date than my own and his imdb filmography doesn’t even list this guest spot yet. 😕 I need to talk to his publicist and see what’s up. I haven’t talked to her in a while. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/58 "2005-09-25T00:56:00Z")
What a great episode this was, and a great ending to Season 2. I was kind of reminded of “Mirrir, Mirror” in Star Trek TOS. Ensign Roe has come a long way-- an Admiral now… But I think they should have cast an older woman-- she’s just too young looking to be so senior an officer. Anyway, here’s looking forward to Season 3. Should conitnue to be good!! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/59 "2005-09-25T02:26:51Z")
Ummmmm… **John**? This is only the half-way point in Season Two. We get Part Two in January (lousy Limeys). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126/60 "2005-09-25T02:36:32Z")
Going retro for a minute, I remember back on the original _Battlestar Galatica_ series there was also an episode where a second battlestar appeared. But I don’t remember the outcome of the episode. Any old school sci-fi fans recall what happened the first time this happened? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-10-pegasus-no-spoilers-in-op-see-scheduling-note/323126.md?page=4)