# Battlestar Galactica 2.18 — "Downloaded" (spoilstar gaspoilica) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 24, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981 "2006-02-24T21:38:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/81 "2006-02-27T16:29:14Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > I inferred that while ChipSix and BaltarChip may be hallucinations, they must be guided hallucinations. > > Guided by what, or Whom, though? That is the question. I’m going to go ahead and spoil this, as per **Hoops** , but based on Ron Moore’s podcast… [spoiler]…they are themselves. That in his HO CapricaSix and Baltar are projecting there own visions of how they imagined their lovers to be and using them to on the one hand to assuage their guilt ( Baltar ) and on the other castigate their guilt ( Six ) over their respective responsibility for genocide. They are solely unconscious manifestations of their own consciousness - Baltar was right in his first impulse in the mini-series. It seems he truly is a genius and damn lucky to boot to correctly predict/guess at the sequence of his own “advice.” And I’m not sure I can swallow that. It requires a lot of special pleading for Baltar’s perceptiveness and sheer coincidense to fly. Too much, perhaps.[/spoiler] I might almost prefer a technobabble answer, instead of the off camera one. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/82 "2006-02-27T16:30:52Z")
Argh! Reported. Sorry folks. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/83 "2006-02-27T16:48:26Z")
Okay: Not to start a flame war or anything – and not to be dense, but really, this episode to me said, “We’re just fraking with you and biding our time to the big cliff-hanger, so we can regroup and figure out what we’re doing here.” Honestly. I don’t think they thought this out this far, I think it has shown in the second half of this season, and I hope they get their act together and start really telling a story again. Not that I’m saying this episode was bad, but for a glimpse at Cylon culture, it was pretty lame. You’re all welcome to love it, but I found it a further disappointment (though not as bad as) continuing from the last few episodes, and reinforcing a general meh at part 2 of season 2 in general. Of course it is still miles beyond SG-1 and SG-Atlantis, but at least they’re not trying to be deep and serious and making a mess of it. Just had to say it in the face of all this blind love you guys are feeling, cause I’m NOT feeling it. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/84 "2006-02-27T18:06:27Z")
> [@ddgryphon](#): > > Just had to say it in the face of all this blind love you guys are feeling, cause I’m NOT feeling it. I far preferred the general malaise of the BSG Internet fandom over the last three or so episodes, than the rabid and ill-thought-out speculation by BSG fans on many boards over this last episode. I’m kind of wondering if Moore et al aren’t feeling the same, because it seems like “Downloaded” was almost tailored to frack up quite a few fandom favorites: “Baltar is a Cylon!” But if he is, there’d be no recognition of Caprica Six as a hero for convincing another Cylon to follow the Cylon Plan. “But he couldn’t have survived a nuclear blast!” But we find out that enough of Baltar’s _house_ survived for Caprica Six to go memento hunting. “Anders is a Cylon, he’s setting Starbuck up!” Now we see that both D’Anna and Sharon instantly recognize him as a human. Now if Moore would just do something to establish that Ellen Tigh and Tom Zarek are human _really_, I’d be a happy man. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/85 "2006-02-27T18:30:23Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > Am I the only one who noticed that BaltarChip was describing Xenabot’s actions to CapSix behind her back? I actually laughed at that, because the exact wording left it ambiguous. Baltar: She’s following you. Six: I know. See, if she knew, that explains how Baltar could have told her if he’s just an hallucination… I thought it was clever. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/86 "2006-02-27T18:39:24Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Now if Moore would just do something to establish that Ellen Tigh and Tom Zarek are human _really_, I’d be a happy man. I had no idea Zarek was even suspected of being a Cylon. Not all evil has to come from Cylons. Zarek is just a power-hungry man. There’s not always a deeper reason, people! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/87 "2006-02-27T18:39:28Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > See, if she knew, that explains how Baltar could have told her if he’s just an hallucination… I thought it was clever. I would describe the “invisible friends” as a a defense mechanisim for the righteously paranoid. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/88 "2006-02-27T18:48:52Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I actually laughed at that, because the exact wording left it ambiguous. > > Baltar: She’s following you. > Six: I know. > > See, if she knew, that explains how Baltar could have told her if he’s just an hallucination… I thought it was clever. See? That’s what I get for having to get up every five minutes last night to tell someone that it was bed time, and that he should stay in bed. At least she was pausing the DVR. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/89 "2006-02-27T18:57:30Z")
Best ep in a long time. It cleared up some things while leaving a lot of other things to think about. I like a lot of the ideas from **The Gaspode** ’s post above. While I don’t see that this is necessarily what’s going on, Gaspode has put out some ideas I hadn’t thought about before. > [@Lightray](#): > > Now if Moore would just do something to establish that Ellen Tigh and Tom Zarek are human _really_, I’d be a happy man. Heck, I’d be happy if he’d establish them as more than two dimensional characters, mysefl … ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/90 "2006-02-27T19:10:26Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > Heck, I’d be happy if he’d establish them as more than two dimensional characters, mysefl … I’m surprised you think Zarek is two-dimensional. To me, he’s always come across as very ambiguous and complex in motivation – particularly in “Black Market”. Ellen is a bit more one-note, but when she and Saul were held hostage by Viper-Guy-Who’s-Name-I-Can’t-Remember, she did seem to have some actual fear for her husband’s safety, which I wasn’t expecting (since she’s never displayed any real care for anyone other than herself). Nonetheless, the impulse that BSG fans have toward thinking “if it’s evil, it _must_ be a Cylon” is quite irksome. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/91 "2006-02-27T19:16:55Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Nonetheless, the impulse that BSG fans have toward thinking “if it’s evil, it _must_ be a Cylon” is quite irksome. I don’t think it’s that; it would be a really cheesy device for the writers to have the bad guys be Cylons. My over voiced fear (You listening, Moore?) that BG will become the “Cylon of the Week Show.” Our thoughts and conceptions are colored by this device; “If this were _Bonanza_ the thief would be a Cylon because thieves and Cylons are evil.” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/92 "2006-02-27T19:23:33Z")
Moore is deeper than that. We are going to see more and more “Good” and “Evil” Cylons **and** humans by the time this ride is over. The line is going to get more and more blurry. Why does Pogo come to mind? “We have met the enemy, and he is us.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/93 "2006-02-27T19:29:21Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I’m surprised you think Zarek is two-dimensional. To me, he’s always come across as very ambiguous and complex in motivation – particularly in “Black Market”. OK, I have to give you that one. They have done work to give his character depth. I guess what I want to see is just a lot _more_ of his character. > [@Lightray](#): > > Nonetheless, the impulse that BSG fans have toward thinking “if it’s evil, it must be a Cylon” is quite irksome. That’s never been me. I’ve liked the nastiness they’ve shown humans capable of, particularly the treatment of Pegasus Six. I will tell you, though, I have been guilty of the “if it’s Cylon, it must be evil” mentality, which this week’s episode has gone to great lengths to disabuse me of. BUT: But but but. I’m convinced that the current Galactica Boomer _is_ evil and the whole thing has been a play to get them to trust her. I think it’d be an extremely interesting plot development to get Cap Six and Boomer to the Galactica – openly, as Cylons – and see what shakes out. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/94 "2006-02-27T22:11:00Z")
I ust wanted to add something to my lengthy post above, and try to re-inforce my argument. If the Cylons are smart (and I think we agree that they are), then they must realize what an edge download experiences from different units will be. If raider A (Scar) gets killed and resurrected as Scar Mk. II, it will remember what got it killed the first time around and avoid doing that. But if it also gets the info from the death of raider B, then Scar Mk. II has a vastly enhanced chance in the next combat. The same goes for the meatbags. The Mk. I of six wakes up with a set of knowledge. Unit A dies within days, leading to a Mk. II where very little extra experience is added. But if T©PTB put the first on hold and wait for unit B to die, then the Mk. II will have an edge and accelerated growth of its experience data base. That way, with enough units going, the Cylons can make the meatbags become more and more humanlike, not just in terms of how they look, but how they interact with real humans. The counter argument would be the original Boomer who actually thought she was human. That there aren’t more sleepers like this seems to imply that making a unit like that takes a lot of effort. I, However, thing that Boomer of S.1 truly was human, and that Cylons had copied her. Making her a Cylon from the very beginning seems like something Ron Moore made up after a while, to add a twist. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/95 "2006-02-27T22:18:42Z")
**Gaspode** I think you’re missing something. What you’re getting would be very nice, no doubt about it. However, you pack enough deaths into the heads of all your new meatbags and I bet they’re going to get pretty traumatized. How many deaths can someone handle before they become unbalanced. The Cylons obviously don’t have perfect control of all of this - if they did there wouldn’t be such a thing as “boxing”. They could just edit out the bad stuff. I’m guessing there’s a massive downside to endless resurrection. I’m betting we’ll get to see that expanded on, as well. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/96 "2006-02-27T22:50:17Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > I think it’d be an extremely interesting plot development to get Cap Six and Boomer to the Galactica – openly, as Cylons – and see what shakes out. Imagine the fun when Cap Six, who still loves Baltar, meets up with him again, and tells him who she is, forcing him to re-transfer his affections back to his original love Cap Six and away from Gina-Six, who will no doubt have a mixed reaction to the whole mess. Man. That would be _neat._ ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/97 "2006-02-27T22:53:05Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Man. That would be _neat._ Or, potentially, hot. If they had a hell of an FX budget. And moved to Cinemax. I’ll be in my bunk. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/98 "2006-02-28T00:27:15Z")
Don’t think this was mentioned - I loved that bit about all the cylons calling Caprica Six “Caprica Six…as though you’re the only Six on the planet.” I’m guessing that was a wink at the fans. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/99 "2006-02-28T19:23:58Z")
From [the Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylon_(Battlestar_Galactica)#Humanoid_Cylons), for those of you still wondering if Sharon ever actually existed: > [@](#): > > There are many copies of each model. Ron D. Moore has also stated that the humanoid Cylons are not based on pre-existing humans: “The idea is not that there was likely an original human model that they were copied from. The idea was that these models of Cylon were sort of developed out of their own study of us. The Cylons on some level looked at humanity and said “You know what? There’s really only 12 of you.” If these are the 12, and sort of if you look at them they each represent different archetypes of what humanity is.” I was wondering why, to root out the cylons (Cylons?) in the Fleet, they don’t just return to Ragnar Station or something similar and wait until someone gets sick? ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981/100 "2006-02-28T19:38:13Z")
Another point to contemplate… as the meatbags become more and more humanlike with every ressurection, and have their own ideas about what to do with Humanity, that may differ from the mechanicals and Raiders, at what point do they split off from the mechanicals plan for the humans if more meatbags end up like C-Six and C-Boomer, there’s the very real possibility of a Cylon “Civil War”… of which the Mechanicals have an overwhelming advantage, tactically… i’d like to see Ron Moore and crew play up the internal dichotomy/power struggle that may lead up to a civil war… maybe that’s Humanity’s “Last, Best, Hope For Peace…”, get the Cylons fighting amongst themselves while they slip away… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-2-18-downloaded-spoilstar-gaspoilica/345981.md?page=6)