# Battlestar Galactica 3.1 & 3.2 — "Occupation" & "Precipice" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500 "2006-10-06T14:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/101 "2006-10-07T20:37:14Z")
[QUOTE=Clark K] - Kara should have killed the kid. How many series would show a main character cooly killing a little moppet to prove how much she hates Cylons? THAT would have taken some nerve. (But, like I said, nothing is simple on Galactica. Now we get to wonder what’s really going on with Kara.) [/QUOTE] That was my thought, too. It would have created an interesting parallel to the scene at the very beginning of the mini-series/pilot, when Caprica Six kills the infant in the stroller. Incidentally, where do we know Jammer from? Did he get introduced in the webisodes or something? I don’t remember ever seeing him before this episode, but it seemed like we were supposed to recognize him and be shocked that he was collaborating. ---
**Author:** ![HelloKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecccb3/32.png) [@HelloKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelloKitty)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/102 "2006-10-07T20:38:54Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Roslyn isn’t President anymore, so I think Tigh is in charge. We know he makes bad decisions when he’s in charge. Hmmm, I gotta disagree a little bit here. Yes, we know Tighe is in over his head as a Battlestar commander, what we are seeing here is Tighe in his “natural” element, he’s a mercenary at heart, all the military posturing on Galactica is what he could not handle. That’s why he made such bad decisions when Adama was incapacitated. I wouldn’t say he’s making bad decisions in managing the resistance. How can you really know what the right decision is? Tighe’s comebacks when he has been 2nd-guessed by Tyrol or Roslyn have made sense. Especially when he said he’s sent many men on suicide missions, whether they are in a raptor or not at the time was immaterial. I think Michael Hogan is doing some of the best acting on the show right now, when he asked Anders if he had heard anything about Starbuck the look on his face nearly broke my heart. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/103 "2006-10-07T20:41:36Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Ah, but this could all be part of Tigh’s plan. Plant a specific, but fake challenge/password with Ellen. If a Boomer shows up and uses that specific wrong password, then play along, and lead her as far away from the real landing area as possible. [/QUOTE] ``` Not seeing any up side there. The meeting is either blown or it isn't. If it's blown, and Anders leads this group away, who meets with the good boomer? ``` ---
**Author:** ![HelloKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecccb3/32.png) [@HelloKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelloKitty)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/104 "2006-10-07T20:49:37Z")
[QUOTE=medstar] Did anyone see Gaeta after he was running alongside the trucks trying to find Callie? Could he have been disguised as one of the NSP who cut Callie’s restraints and told her to run and not look back? [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure that was Jammer. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/105 "2006-10-07T20:50:51Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] That’s my rationalization too. But as was pointed out, they really should explain why the D’Anna model is out in the open. Wouldn’t it have been smart to keep her hidden among the humans?.. [/QUOTE] “D’Anna Biers” was a celebrity in the Fleet. Anders saw a Number 3 model on Caprica. It would’ve only been a matter of time before he saw her in a newscast or in person and outed her. Wouldn’t it be cool if the flashback episode coming up has a scene of Biers showing up to interview Anders? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/106 "2006-10-07T21:04:02Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] That’s my rationalization too. But as was pointed out, they really should explain why the D’Anna model is out in the open. Wouldn’t it have been smart to keep her hidden among the humans? [/quote] I think that particular D’Anna model still doesn’t trust the Six and Boomer leading the new attitude towards humans and wants to keep an eye on them (they did kill her), even if it means giving up her cover. > [@](#): > > It’s hard to believe Leoben would deliberately injure not only his own child, but the only successful human-Cylon hybrid known to be alive. It doesn’t make sense for Leoben to harm the child only if that child is who he says she is. However, if she isn’t really his and Starbuck’s (whether it’s human or cylon), I can’t see him having any problems tossing her down the stairs. > [@](#): > > Roslyn isn’t President anymore, so I think Tigh is in charge. We know he makes bad decisions when he’s in charge. I think you’re right. Given that Laura’s a former president (and turned out to be right about the settlement), she’s probably a very powerful voice but not the ultimate leader. > [@](#): > > I thought it looked like a sore or rash, possibly VD in nature, to emphasize how “dirty” she was being. Good point! She did seem concerned about the mark after her first encounter and the mark seems to be growing in size. I’m feeling a bit sorry for Ellen (will wonders never cease). It seems like she got into the whole thing to save her husband, and now she’s in way over her head. She either betrays her husband or he’s rounded up for more torture and possible execution. And Ellen’s just not smart enough to figure a way out of that situation. > [@](#): > > BTW, getting back to how the Centurions can’t tell a good meatbot from a bad meatbot, how do they tell? Is there some sort of IFF chip they carry that transmits to them? Facial recognition? What I’m wondering is, when good Boomer appeared & traded challenge/password with Anders, why did she duck & run when the Toasters opened fire on them? Moore made a point of telling us they can’t tell the difference, and that would be a valuable asset with good Boomer on their side. So, why didn’t good Boomer simply stand up and say “hey guys, it’s me! Fellow Cylon. Stop firing, I’ve got this covered.” Unless she’s not the good Boomer and the Toasters were firing at her as part of the plan to make her infiltration more convincing. More & more I’m thinking that’s a bad Boomer, she failed the challenge/password, and Anders knows. I think she’s a “bad” Boomer too. She could have gotten the password from the info Ellen stole. I suppose she could be the “good” one. It could be the toaster models can’t distinguish between different issues of the various meat models, however, that doesn’t mean they can always tell when one is present. So, if Boomer stood up and announced herself, they’d likely stop firing. Unfortunately, they started firing before she could do so. She couldn’t really stand up after that and risk getting hit by “friendly” fire. But that wouldn’t be as good a story! I doubt even Ron Moore has the guts to have Starbuck kill the kid! There was a lot of flack over showing Six killing an infant (who was about to be nuked anyway) in the mini series, and she was a bad guy at the time! ---
**Author:** ![YPOD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e99b99/32.png) [@YPOD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YPOD)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/107 "2006-10-07T21:40:35Z")
I don’t think Tigh or Rosalyn have any official capacities anymore - she’s no longer president, and he retired or whatever from the fleet. As Tigh was the highest ranking military officer, the others would naturally look to him for military type leadership, and to Rosalyn for whatever it is civilians do in that situation. It seems to me that Tigh & co. repeated their choice of rendevous sites in front of his wife - maybe they suspect they are being spied on to begin with, and maybe they also suspect the Mrs. Didn’t Tigh give her a double look when she took the map? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/108 "2006-10-07T21:53:34Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Incidentally, where do we know Jammer from? Did he get introduced in the webisodes or something? [/QUOTE] Yes. He and Duck were introduced in the webisodes, where they were the central characters. [spoiler]Tigh had the resistance hide weapons in the temple, blaspheming the Gods, the toasters found out and shot it up, killing Duck’s wife in the process. He’d been ambivalent about the resistance but joined up to exact his revenge. The Cylons took Jammer in for interrogation, but instead turned out to be a plea to have him “help” them prevent further useless loss of human life. He agreed to let them know if that kind of thing was going to happen again, and that motivated him to join the collaboration police. He still thinks he’s acting in the humans’ best interests by doing so, and doesn’t think of himself as collaborating with the enemy. That wouldn’t be all that clear from the TV show alone. Jammer does seem to have realized he’d been had, when assigned to escort the execution victims, and took the chance to save the best friend he had among them.[/spoiler] > [@unauthorized cinnamon](#): > > I was referring to a theory above that that whole conversation, including the map, was a red herring deliberately fed to the Cylons, since they knew Ellen ( ) was informing. They went ahead and held the rendezvous _anyway_. That means they \*didn’t \* know. > [@MacTech](#): > > Kara clearly does not love Leo, yet they were able to create the StarBrat Test tube baby. They’d captured Starbuck on old Caprica and took her to the breeding farm, where they took out an ovary. She didn’t even know about the kid (who could be one of many identical ones) until Leoben told her. Her quick transition into maternalism rings false, though, even with Stockholm Syndrome. She’s \*faking \* it, I tell you! In fact, I insist! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/109 "2006-10-07T22:26:26Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] BTW, getting back to how the Centurions can’t tell a good meatbot from a bad meatbot, how do they tell? [/QUOTE] Gort! Klaytu birada nicto. ---
**Author:** ![easy\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@easy\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/easy_e)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/110 "2006-10-07T23:01:29Z")
Jammer was the one who cut Callie loose. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/111 "2006-10-07T23:11:08Z")
[QUOTE=Elmo Lincoln] I am a little disturbed by the suicide bombers as good guys angle [/QUOTE] I’m not worried about losing viewers over that, but about people who don’t watch it being offended and raising a stink. There was a movement to kill _Firefly_ from a group that hoped canceling it would keep their show, “Baptist Barbie” or whatever it was, on the air. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/112 "2006-10-08T00:05:54Z")
Wouldn’t it make sense for the Cylons to have some variation on apparent age in their models, especially given their obsession with children? Kara’s supposedly child could be a full on toaster. ---
**Author:** ![Zetetic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/74df32/32.png) [@Zetetic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zetetic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/113 "2006-10-08T00:13:42Z")
With regard to which Boomer has met up with the resistance guys, I think it’s the one from Galactica. I’ve just re-watched the scene where they discuss the rendezvous, Tyrol tells Tighe who the liason officer is going to be \*before \*Ellen comes into the tent (there’s also a shot of Anders giving a very slight shake of his head here, didn’t know quite what to read into that…) then they go on to discuss the meeting point, etc. My feeling is that the Cylons have just went for a straight up ambush, they haven’t tried to plant a different Boomer because they don’t know she’s going to be there. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/114 "2006-10-08T00:20:00Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] Wouldn’t it make sense for the Cylons to have some variation on apparent age in their models, especially given their obsession with children? Kara’s supposedly child could be a full on toaster. [/QUOTE] Well every model we’ve seen so far as been an adult. No children, elderly (except Cavil), or teenagers. I think that the child is a human who’s parents were killed. Roslin seems to have great charismatic authority. She’s also the only person outside the military that people can look to for leadership. And Ellen’s gone from villainous succubus to tragic figure. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/115 "2006-10-08T00:33:19Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Well every model we’ve seen so far as been an adult. No children, elderly (except Cavil), or teenagers. [/QUOTE] I remember the shot of the ressurection ship; full of apparently comatose adult bodies. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/116 "2006-10-08T01:15:26Z")
[QUOTE=MaddyStrut] It doesn’t make sense for Leoben to harm the child only if that child is who he says she is. However, if she isn’t really his and Starbuck’s (whether it’s human or cylon), I can’t see him having any problems tossing her down the stairs. [/quote] True. Hmm. I don’t think we’re seeing a Cylon child. That seems to go against the “there are 12 models” theme. Why waste a model on a brat? OTOH, if it’s human - dang. Would Ron Moore do that? Have Leoben steal a cute little blond-haired human child that sorta looks like Starbuck, take care of her, socialize her, make her all cute & healthy then kick her down the stairs? There are limits I tell you! I’d sooner believe she’s a creepy half-Cylon who came up with the idea herself. “What wud make mommy wuv me? I know, bash my head on the stairs. Dat will make mommy wuv me!” > [@](#): > > I’m feeling a bit sorry for Ellen (will wonders never cease). It seems like she got into the whole thing to save her husband, and now she’s in way over her head. She either betrays her husband or he’s rounded up for more torture and possible execution. And Ellen’s just not smart enough to figure a way out of that situation. You know, I think Ellen & Tigh are the greatest relationship Ron Moore’s created. They’re both alcoholic, co-dependent. But they really do love each other, and will do just about anything for each other. Ellen more than Tigh maybe. She’ll sleep with anyone if she’s bored and/or it might provide some benefit. She’s totally ambitious. Tigh isn’t for a second naive about his wife’s habits & methods. He still loves her though, even if he knows full well she’d sleep with a Cylon and betray humanity if it meant keeping her husband around a little longer. I actually do like & respect Ellen in some ways. We should all be so lucky to have someone like that. Okay, maybe not all the lengths & methods she’s willing to go to but still, the woman’s heart is actually in the right place. The rest of her is all in the wrong places. But she is totally loyal to Saul and will do anything for him. He knows that. Loves her. Ain’t stupid enough to discuss secret plans in front of her. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/117 "2006-10-08T01:17:04Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] . Wondering about Rosilyn being shown in the preview. A flashback scene included to provoke speculation/misdirection? A previously unrevealed toaster? Jammer & Co. turn babyface at the last second?–kinda doubt that, because he allowed the dark haired gal to escape. Don’t think he would have done that if he intended to fire on the Cylons a short time later. . [/QUOTE] Well, he could have allowed Callie to escape because he wanted her out of there - because if he and the BlackHoods were going to try to kill the Centurions he didn’t want her killed… -or- Boomer was controlling those Centurions (which Boomer? Could have been Adama’s pet Boomer or the one from New Caprica who didn’t like how things were going) and Jammer and his buddies are now dead. My personal guess is number two. > [@](#): > > It’s hard to believe Leoben would deliberately injure not only his own child, but the only successful human-Cylon hybrid known to be alive. All we can tell is that she’s a little blonde girl. I’m guessing she’s a Six who wasn’t grown to full maturity. Something that’s occurred to me lately…have we got any definite proof that the ‘12 Cylon Models’ refers to 12 Meatbag Models? Is it possible that one is the Raider, one is the BaseStar, one is the Heavy Raider, etc? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/118 "2006-10-08T01:26:35Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] All we can tell is that she’s a little blonde girl. I’m guessing she’s a Six who wasn’t grown to full maturity. [/QUOTE] I don’t think meatbags grow from infants; they are created as adults. Else some conciousness dies when a Cylon is forked to death by Thrace and uploads to a new body. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/119 "2006-10-08T01:33:10Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Boomer was controlling those Centurions (which Boomer? Could have been Adama’s pet Boomer or the one from New Caprica who didn’t like how things were going) and Jammer and his buddies are now dead. My personal guess is number two. [/QUOTE] I get the feeling the “goodlife” masked guys are going to be around for several more episodes. That storyline has too much potential to kill off Jammer this soon… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500/120 "2006-10-08T01:38:47Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] I get the feeling the “goodlife” masked guys are going to be around for several more episodes. That storyline has too much potential to kill off Jammer this soon… [/QUOTE] But isn’t he a new character who could be killed off without much complaint? Do ya’ll suppose this arc will be going for a while? Is this going to become a major story line rather than the resolution of a cliff hanger? Am I asking too many questions? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-1-3-2-occupation-precipice/375500.md?page=7)