# Battlestar Galactica 3.5 - "Collaborators" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117 "2006-10-27T14:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/221 "2006-11-01T02:29:00Z")
Since we’ve got the WWII French Resistance as an analogy to the New Caprica Resistance in play, here, does anybody know how long it took once France was liberated for them to begin debriefing collaborators and high-level members of the occupation government? Granted, France had _way_ more personnel to do that sort of thing than the rag-tag fugitive fleet does, but I’m thinking it didn’t start happening in _three days_. I’m just nonplussed that so many people seem to think this is anywhere high on the list of priorities after the fleet escaped the Cylons. I have to believe that in the three days, they needed to be more focused on finding out who survived, finding out what food and supplies they have to feed the people who survived, getting separated refugees in contact with any surviving familiy, figuring out where they’re going to put all these people, and fixing the smashed-to-hell Galactica and a bunch of ships that’ve sat on a planet for the last year. Three days. Very limited personnel. And Adama is the one at the top of the organization trying to do all these things. No way that he’s spending any time chatting up Gaeta, no matter _who_ claims he was the Resistance’s mole. Now, the fact that Tom Zarek was thinking far enough ahead to set up his death squad tribunals is impressive, and shows how smart and dangerous the man is. It was pretty obvious when he revealed what he’d done that Adama and Roslyn hadn’t even thought ahead to what would happen with the collaborators in the fleet. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/222 "2006-11-01T03:06:08Z")
[QUOTE=Agnostic Pagan] On a different note, have they stated how far they have travelled since they left the Twelve Colonies. Next week’s preview mentions the road to Earth. And I cant wait for that storyline to start up again. But has there been any hints to how long that road will be? [/QUOTE] I’d love to know how far they’ve traveled. I’m not holding my breath any longer than Jammer did though. Cylons seem able to jump from anywhere to anywhere in one jump. Colonials need lots of smaller jumps. So why do the Cylons need humans to find Earth? Boomer stated they know more about their theology than they do. They could have easily taken the Arrow of whatever-it-was to the temple of whoever-it-was and discovered that nebula or constellation where Earth is supposedly located. Give me a Basestar and _I’ll_ find you Earth. **Lightray** , how long did it take them to get around to debriefing collaborators & resistance members? Well how long did it take Zarek to identify collaborators, form The Circle and begin executions? Tigh and Tyrol were doing this in their spare time. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/223 "2006-11-01T03:23:35Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] I’d love to know how far they’ve traveled. I’m not holding my breath any longer than Jammer did though. [/QUOTE] Man, that’s cold. 🙂 [QUOTE=levdrakon] Well how long did it take Zarek to identify collaborators, form The Circle and begin executions? [/QUOTE] I wonder if he will start it up again. Were his motives to do it quickly and wothout blame for Roslyn, or does he have another agenda? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/224 "2006-11-01T03:41:42Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] **Lightray** , how long did it take them to get around to debriefing collaborators & resistance members? Well how long did it take Zarek to identify collaborators, form The Circle and begin executions? Tigh and Tyrol were doing this in their spare time. [/QUOTE] The timeline I’ve seen has it as: 5 days after escaping New Caprica, 3 days to go on Zarek’s presidency. So my assumption has been that it was Zarek’s crew who’d been organizing those rather poor dossiers. (their evidence on Gaeta: memos from Baltar’s office they can only connect to Gaeta circumstantially, and a 1+ year old picture of Gaeta when he worked on Galactica. whoo.) Since Tigh had the dossiers, it looks like it went down as: (1) Zarek’s folks remember to bring their file cabinets from New Caprica in the evacuation, (2) Zarek gets the files to Tigh, (3) Tigh rounds up some patsies, er, his fellow Resistance guys, (4) they kill a couple of guys on Galactica, and tell some folks on other ships to kill the others of the dozen or so they offed. The longest lead-time here was in getting the dossiers together. And from the one example we got a good look at, there wasn’t much time spent on that. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/225 "2006-11-01T03:54:28Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] I’m just nonplussed that so many people seem to think this is anywhere high on the list of priorities after the fleet escaped the Cylons. [/QUOTE] This is pretty much what Ron Moore says in the podcast; there would be so much confusion and other priorities that no one would be sitting down to figure out exactly who helped whom and when. Regarding the dossiers - there was a subplot regarding Zarek’s actions that was either not filmed or deleted (I forget which) showing him getting information together for the Circle, including co-opting Tory by getting her to feed information to him from Roslin’s own journal (obviously unbeknownst to Roslin). Moore also states it was Alessandro Juliani’s idea to play up Gaeta’s defeatist depression, and liked the way he was able to use it to play against Starbuck’s aggressive bloodlust. So I’ve got no problem believing not only that Gaeta wouldn’t be trying all that much to proclaim his innocence/heroism, but sinking so far into his depression when his initial attempts were met not only with non-belief, but contemptuous derision, that he was willing to say the hell with it all. And another note on the Circle (again from the podcast, though I got this from the first viewing as well) - it was important to them that what they were doing had some _semblance_ of formality. Of course they were not thinking straight, and of course they were being overly zealous and dangerously short-sighted, but they had a sanction from the president, they arranged themselves as an official “jury” in need of a unanimous vote, and they wholeheartedly believed what they were doing was necessary. It was only after they realized they’d almost spaced their chief informant that they understood how wrong they were (and Hogan shines again in a single reaction shot; the man conveys more in his expression than some do in volumes of words). Apropos of nothing at all, I’d just like to note that I just started watching this show this season based partially on the thread activity on this board and Sci-Fi’s “Story So Far” summary (canny move, that). Even bought the DVD sets of the first two seasons and finally finished them up over this past weekend. I’ve no idea how I managed to miss it this long, but hey - thanks to the participants here for helping to bring it to my attention! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/226 "2006-11-01T04:19:44Z")
[QUOTE=Quixotic] thanks to the participants here for helping to bring it to my attention! [/QUOTE] Welcome, and thanks for you comments. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/227 "2006-11-01T04:40:01Z")
Well, it’s about that point in the thread where we should start a Gaylon discussion, or something. So I’ll pose this question: How much of the Cylon industrial capacity do you think is dedicated to manufacturing hair products for the Fives, Sixes, and Eights? D’Anna and the Sixes are always perfectly coiffed, and the Boomers always have nice hair, too. In fact, _all_ the Cylons except the Cavils and icky Leoben have nice hair. (And I suspect Leoben doesn’t bathe, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/228 "2006-11-01T06:18:26Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] One of the Circle is the Chief Engineer, so maybe he frigged it? [/QUOTE] Nitpick: Deck Chief, not Chief Engineer, which is almost certainly a commissioned post (in fact, wasn’t the Pegasus’ penultimate C.O. a former Chief Engineer?). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/229 "2006-11-01T14:57:08Z")
[QUOTE=Cerowyn] Nitpick: Deck Chief, not Chief Engineer, which is almost certainly a commissioned post (in fact, wasn’t the Pegasus’ penultimate C.O. a former Chief Engineer?). [/QUOTE] The fact that he is addressed as “Chief” implies to me that he is by rank a Chief Petty Officer, which is an NCO rank, not a commissioned officer. And I seem to recall that part of the reason that Tyrol and Boomer had to keep their relationship secret in the first place was a military ban on officer-enlisted relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/230 "2006-11-01T15:12:57Z")
[QUOTE=Cerowyn] (in fact, wasn’t the Pegasus’ penultimate C.O. a former Chief Engineer?). [/QUOTE] Pegasus’ engineer was a kidnapped spacecraft design engineer from the drydock. The fact that he was a degreed (apparently) engineer has no bearing on whether or not Tyrol would be likewise. And I don’t think we ever saw either one in an officer’s uniform. And you can note that when Dualla got promoted to officer, we now see her wearing an officer’s uniform all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/231 "2006-11-01T15:21:20Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] Pegasus’ engineer was a kidnapped spacecraft design engineer from the drydock. [/QUOTE] No, the abductee from the civilian ship Scylla was Pegasus’s deck chief, name of Laird. The penultimate commander **Cerowyn** refers to was Garner, played by John Heard, in _The Captain’s Hand_, who was indeed Chief Engineer. To the best of my knowledge, we haven’t yet met Galactica’s corresponding officer. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/232 "2006-11-01T16:00:52Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] No, the abductee from the civilian ship Scylla was Pegasus’s deck chief, name of Laird. The penultimate commander **Cerowyn** refers to was Garner, played by John Heard, in _The Captain’s Hand_, who was indeed Chief Engineer. To the best of my knowledge, we haven’t yet met Galactica’s corresponding officer. [/QUOTE] Ah, forgot about him. Galactica might not have the corresponding officer, since she was about to be decomissioned. OTOH, the about-to-be decomissioned ship _did_ have an LSO (Capt. Kelly), which you’d think would also not be requried of a space museum. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/233 "2006-11-01T17:02:45Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] OTOH, the about-to-be decomissioned ship _did_ have an LSO (Capt. Kelly), which you’d think would also not be requried of a space museum. [/QUOTE] Sure it would. As long as they have birds landing & taking off, he’d be there. ---
**Author:** ![Subway\_Prophet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Subway\_Prophet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subway_Prophet)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/234 "2006-11-01T21:13:34Z")
Does anyone have the feeling that Tyrol & Cally’s kid is going to become a pawn in Boomer’s quest to find her own kid? Little Nicholas represents the baby that Tyrol and Sharon wanted but never had together, and now Sharon’s baby is gone… But maybe not _really_ gone… Nah. It’s not like there’s any well-established dramatic friction between Sharon and Cally. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/235 "2006-11-01T22:33:32Z")
How would it become a pawn? It’s fully human, and not either Sharon’s or Helo’s kid. Other than the fact that another version of Sharon had a relationship with the Chief, there’s not much of a connection. Besides, the Sharon on N.C. seemed genuinely happy for Cally and the Chief, and I would assume Mrs. Agathon would have _very_ similar sentiments, as they are, in many respects, almost the same person. ---
**Author:** ![Subway\_Prophet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Subway\_Prophet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subway_Prophet)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/236 "2006-11-02T00:57:53Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] How would it become a pawn? It’s fully human, and not either Sharon’s or Helo’s kid. Other than the fact that another version of Sharon had a relationship with the Chief, there’s not much of a connection. [/quote] Well, I don’t know, exactly, but I’m suspicious simply because of all the married couples since NC, why’d the scriptwriters give _them_ a baby? One scenario I envision is for Cally to do or say something stupid to or about Boomer, then (insert plot hole here), then Boomer kidnaps Nicholas. This, in turn, gives Roslyn the impetus she feels she needs to have Boomer hunted and arrested, and then ordered to divulge who the jidden Cylons in the fleet are. Roslyn’s hypocracy towards Sharon, so soon after the truth & reconciliation speech, allows Zarek to gain political ground. Or something like that. > [@](#): > > Besides, the Sharon on N.C. seemed genuinely happy for Cally and the Chief, and I would assume Mrs. Agathon would have _very_ similar sentiments, as they are, in many respects, almost the same person. Yeah, there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/237 "2006-11-02T01:24:44Z")
Cally having a baby seems to unnecessarily tie up her character unless something happens to it. If Helo’s Boomer finds out Hera is still alive I don’t think she’s really going to care about Tyrol or his kid that much. She ought to be after Roslyn & Doc Cottle. There could be some tension if Helo & Tyrol team up again to help Boomer. _That_ just might get Cally out of bed. Or maybe Cally’s kid will get cancer and only Hera’s magic baby blood can cure it, so Cally has to team up with them to get Hera back. I’ll probably quit watching the show around then. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/238 "2006-11-02T02:08:19Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Cally having a baby seems to unnecessarily tie up her character unless something happens to it. [/QUOTE] But after the PCR ™ (Pod Cast Remark ) “We wanted to see what they were doing with those drones”, I wonder if anthing is planned from one episode to the next. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/239 "2006-11-02T02:15:43Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] But after the PCR ™ (Pod Cast Remark ) “We wanted to see what they were doing with those drones”, I wonder if anthing is planned from one episode to the next. 🙂 [/QUOTE] They’re going to launch Cally’s baby out a Viper? Please tell me that’s not just speculation! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/240 "2006-11-02T02:21:47Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Cally having a baby seems to unnecessarily tie up her character… [/QUOTE] Not necessarily. Given the Colonials circumstances I doubht they’ll be able to follow the each-individual-couple-raise-their-own-children model. For the most part children will be raised communally by dedicated childcare workers. Parents may only see their children for an hour or two per day and even have seperate quarters from them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117.md?page=13)