# Battlestar Galactica 3.5 - "Collaborators" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117 "2006-10-27T14:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/41 "2006-10-28T05:42:40Z")
I actually found myself wanting more of the cylon side this week… I am much more interested in what happens with him… and as mentioned above… the whole 7 vs 12 model thing… I really hope that they dont plan to do whats in the spoiler boxes… granted, they’ve kinda lost the best ways to introduce the other 5… a throwaway line “those models were lost in the battle(s) at the other ressurection ship, limited edition and all that…rare you know”. Good Episode overall… ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/42 "2006-10-28T05:57:12Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Nah. Most survivors probably spaced them during the confusion of the escape, when they had the chance. 😃 [/QUOTE] Along with the hairdressers, management consultants, public telephone sanitizers, … ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/43 "2006-10-28T06:24:18Z")
[QUOTE=Hypno-Toad] I liked that when The Circle put Gaetas picture on the table, Tighe was looking over Felixs’ shoulder. [/QUOTE] I’m slow. What’s the significance of that? [QUOTE=Levdrakon] Rozzie getting the presidency back was too contrived. Basically they’re saying you’re only the president if Adama says you are. Yet Adama - the ultimate authority it turns out - signed off on Baltar’s presidency. Therefore, this is all just as much Adama’s fault as Baltar’s. [/QUOTE] Well, yeah, it’s just as much Adama’s fault. That’s one of the great things about this show \_ no one is above making mistakes and learning and second-guessing. And I don’t see anything contrived about Roslyn getting the job back. The government and military went through the constitutional hoops to re-install the person that, in retrospect, everyone knows should have been president. The rules are followed; the outcome is acceptable to all. And Adama has to be incredibly torn over how much power to exert over the civilian government. He tried running everything and ended up with a mutinous, divided fleet. He let democracy work its magic and ended up with a “genius” handing civilization over to the Cylons. No easy answers. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/44 "2006-10-28T07:14:23Z")
I actually really liked this episode, moreso than the previous ones. I just wish they had time to fit more story into the 45 minutes - I guess the season premiere spoiled me. “Keep jumping”…heh heh heh. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/45 "2006-10-28T14:41:52Z")
[QUOTE=MacTech] 4 BaseStars and a Resurrection Ship… [/QUOTE] Pretty sure I counted five…if it’s going to ever become important. I do find it rather entertaining that all the gloom-and-doom SDMB prophecies were totally inaccurate on this ep. I know that Tigh has had a rough time lately, but arguing with the Admiral on the bridge in front of the entire CIC was a big no-no. He should know better than that. My own personal opinion is that the other 5 models aren’t involved with the humans so far. If I had to make a wild future prediction, I don’t think we’ll ever see all twelve. Maybe two or three more (tops) that will be brought in when their archetypes will help steer the situation. Basically, I think some will be brought in as a “special troubleshooter”. Maybe, I don’t know, the Psychoanalyst model or something. We’ll see. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/46 "2006-10-28T15:42:11Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] I know that Tigh has had a rough time lately, but arguing with the Admiral on the bridge in front of the entire CIC was a big no-no. He should know better than that. [/QUOTE] I thought he was drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/47 "2006-10-28T15:47:40Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] I thought he was drunk. [/QUOTE] He was. That’s why Bill Adama told him to “sleep it off”. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/48 "2006-10-28T15:50:22Z")
[QUOTE=Mahaloth] He was. That’s why Bill Adama told him to “sleep it off”. [/QUOTE] I thought I remembered Tigh as a happy drunk. 🙂 I figured Adama was telling him to relax, take a break, and back the hell off of Gaeta. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/49 "2006-10-28T16:03:35Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] I thought I remembered Tigh as a happy drunk. 🙂 I figured Adama was telling him to relax, take a break, and back the hell off of Gaeta. -Joe [/QUOTE] He stumbled a little during his fight with Adama. He was definitely drunk. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/50 "2006-10-28T16:06:58Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] I thought I remembered Tigh as a happy drunk. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Losing Ellen and seeing a collaborator on the bridge probably mad him a bit angry. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/51 "2006-10-28T16:11:49Z")
Things I liked about this episode: Motherfrakking _awesome_ human drama. The scene with Jammer getting executed caused almost immediate and strong anxiety, mostly from horrified sympathy _and_ terrible disappointment with some of the members of the “jury”, who I really thought were better than that. They’re not. Perhaps no one is. Very sad, very true of humanity in general. It made these people seem _real_, and that it made me absolutely queasy means I still care. RDM & Co. deserve major kudos for that. But the setup, at times, was simply beyond the bounds of suspension-of-disbelief. Cally not only didn’t recognize that it was Jammer who set her free, she frakking _forgot_ it even happened? Bullshit. And then there’s Gaeta. I frakking _knew_ this was going to happen. There’s simply no excuse for Gaeta not having been hoisted on the shoulders of Adama and Tigh together and paraded about as one of the Fleet’s greatest heros the day he got back on the Galactica. Without his intel, humanity would still have Cylon boots on their necks, and the Galactica would be chunks of glowing wreckage slowly spiraling in and burning up in the atmosphere of New Caprica. It would have taken him enough time to say “dog bowl, drop off, ME!”, and he’d have a frakking medal-of-honor tattooed to his forehead. Instead, for some completely bizarre reason, he tells _no one_ that he played as big a role as any person in the success of the rescue, takes heaps of shit from everyone, seems almost completely unaware of the significance of his actions, only blurts out tidbits relating to the nature of his involvement after two fleet officers accuse him of high treason in the midst of a crowd of soldiers who hate him enough to kill him, gets dragged to an airlock and is facing death, and after all of that says “I won’t beg.” Bull-frakking-shit. Kara’s little tantrum in the end, where it’s almost like he had to be tricked into revealing what a hero he is, only compounded the gross absurdity of it. Man, I _wanted_ to love this episode completely. I really did. That Zarek was pulling the strings was a very nice touch, a great little twist that in no way, IMO, absolved the “jury” of their attrocious behavior, but provided a very plausible explanation for it besides pure hate. Tigh is almost unhinged, and it’s fun watching Hogan stretch into that a little, _sans_ the booze crutch. Whatever Kara’s demons are, old and newly-aquired, working those out could be interesting. Nice to see Papa and Junior Adama still _aren’t_ best buddies all of the sudden, because old habits really do die hard. Roslin’s Nelson Mandela impersonation wasn’t so bad. It lacked imagination, but I couldn’t think of a better way to move the series forward without the story turning into exactly what Zarek was trying to prevent Roslin’s presidency from turning into. But for frak’s sake, BSG writers, _work on the setups_. I wonder if the silliness from _Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down_ got it into their heads that because they could pull of these implausiblities in their one semi-comic episode, it would work all the time. I hope not. Once they get to where they want to be, it’s brilliant. Things would be damn near flawless if they could find some better routes. On an almost unrelated note, I have no idea what the point of Baltar’s captivity is up to now, but things have just gotten started with that, so I’m just going to wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/52 "2006-10-28T16:14:51Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] Hmmm…where was GoodBoomer this week? [/QUOTE] Making French Toast? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/53 "2006-10-28T16:21:21Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] But the setup, at times, was simply beyond the bounds of suspension-of-disbelief. Cally not only didn’t recognize that it was Jammer who set her free, she frakking _forgot_ it even happened? Bullshit. [/QUOTE] It wasn’t terribly relevent at that point anyways, was it? Besides, he may have saved her, but Cally seems to be one who happily doles out psychotic hatred. I don’t see her giving a shit about Jammer getting any credit for helping her . [QUOTE=Loopydude] And then there’s Gaeta. I frakking knew this was going to happen. There’s simply no excuse for Gaeta not having been hoisted on the shoulders of Adama and Tigh together and paraded about as one of the Fleet’s greatest heros the day he got back on the Galactica. Without his intel, humanity would still have Cylon boots on their necks, and the Galactica would be chunks of glowing wreckage slowly spiraling in and burning up in the atmosphere of New Caprica. It would have taken him enough time to say “dog bowl, drop off, ME!”, and he’d have a frakking medal-of-honor tattooed to his forehead. Instead, for some completely bizarre reason, he tells no one that he played as big a role as any person in the success of the rescue, takes heaps of shit from everyone, seems almost completely unaware of the significance of his actions, only blurts out tidbits relating to the nature of his involvement after two fleet officers accuse him of high treason in the midst of a crowd of soldiers who hate him enough to kill him, gets dragged to an airlock and is facing death, and after all of that says “I won’t beg.” Bull-frakking-shit. Kara’s little tantrum in the end, where it’s almost like he had to be tricked into revealing what a hero he is, only compounded the gross absurdity of it. [/QUOTE] You ignored the part where he **TOLD** Kara about the dog bowl? The part where he said he’s told people fifty times that he’d been working from the inside and that noobdy believed him because they all thought he was lying to save his ass? He was in trouble **UNTIL** he happened to mention the dog bowl in front of the right person - The Chief. But, hey, why let actual dialogue from the show interfere with a chance to bitch? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/54 "2006-10-28T16:26:19Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Rozzie getting the presidency back was too contrived. [/QUOTE] Yeah, it’s a reset of monster proportions, but _that_ one I can pretty much believe. There is almost certainly no mechanism in the Articles for a president to legally resign whilst handing power off to another individual not in the order of succession. But then again, it’s rather unlikely those who drafted the Articles foresaw much of any of this. And I rather doubt, under the circumstances, the rest of the Fleet would object much to having Roslin back in a time of such dire need for an experienced leader, one whose judgement was so completely vindicated by the experience on New Caprica. Had anyone even the foggiest notion the Cylons would find them again (forget about all the other stuff), Roslin would have won the last election in a landslide anyway. It’s what’s left of humanity trying to correct a colossal blunder. The few Zarek fanatics remaining would, I’m sure, at least be willing to bide their time if Zarek himself endorsed the change of power. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/55 "2006-10-28T16:35:29Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] You ignored the part where he **TOLD** Kara about the dog bowl? [/QUOTE] Oh, gods, not this again. I mentioned it explicity. [QUOTE=Merijeek] The part where he said he’s told people fifty times that he’d been working from the inside and that noobdy believed him because they all thought he was lying to save his ass? [/QUOTE] Just decided not to tell anyone who mattered, like, say Adama, Zarek, Roslin, nobody? Got no debriefing after the collapse of Baltar’s govt., he being privvy to most of its internal affairs? Just felt no need to share it with command? No one felt the slightest curiosity? With mountains of info. right at his fingertips that could have shown without a shadow of a doubt that _he_ made it possible? Even if they didn’t know about the precise mechanism of drop off, he could have convinced anyone if he was simply willing to explain it beyond “I helped you from the inside!” Any common member of the Cylon’s human police force would of course use that excuse, but what would set Gaeta apart is the very precise information that he shared with the insurgency, the reams of documents, and all their content. I just can’t buy it. I can’t see how anyone could. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/56 "2006-10-28T16:37:53Z")
Keep in mind that Gaeta _used_ to be an idealist who idolized Baltar. His idealism and idolization got rather thoroughly mangled – and he’s just spent a year on New Caprica as the second-most-despised human on the planet. By the time “the Circle” (dorky name) got him, he was obviously depressed enough that he was ready to die just to get it all over with. He’d given up trying to save himself, and only wanted to save his dignity at that point. Starbuck, on the other hand, wanted somebody to beg her to save them, and wasn’t willing to listen to anything _other_ than begging. She’s got issues from Leoben’s abuse, obviously, and is trying to get herself back in a position where she’s the one with the power. I question whether Starbuck actually wanted to kill Gaeta, or only wanted him to beg for his life (at which point she might have changed her vote) – fortunately, Tyrol found his balls and made the point moot. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/57 "2006-10-28T16:39:03Z")
Overall, I enjoyed the episode. There are a few things that don’t quite add up… 1. Spacing Jammer (and the previous 12 Goodlife) should have set off an alarm, a flashing light, or something on the bridge. I find it hard to believe that you can open an airlock on a Battlestar without alerting the bridge. 2. Galactica appears to be crowded. People sleeping on cots in open spaces, remniscent of a hurricane shelter. Yet, whenever The Circle grabs somebody, they can walk them across the ship and into the launch tube without ever encountering anybody else? 3. Zarek makes Rosilyn VP, then resigns so she can be president, and she names Zarek VP? Too pat. Think they should have found another post for Zarek after he resigned. On the other hand, I like the idea of Zarek setting up The Circle by executive order. He knew the Goodlife were gonna get dealt with one way or another. By signing the order, he provided legal cover for those involved…thus we don’t have to try the heroes of the resistance for murder. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/58 "2006-10-28T16:43:57Z")
The Circle, eh? [These guys](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_%28Star_Trek%29) want their name back. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/59 "2006-10-28T16:52:44Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] 1. Spacing Jammer (and the previous 12 Goodlife) should have set off an alarm, a flashing light, or something on the bridge. I find it hard to believe that you can open an airlock on a Battlestar without alerting the bridge. [/QUOTE] One of the Circle is the Chief Engineer, so maybe he frigged it? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/60 "2006-10-28T16:55:39Z")
I’m sure the Chief could have done that, but it might have been a nice touch to indicate somehow that he was facilitating such a coverup. Minor quibble, in my mind, but valid one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117.md?page=4)