# Battlestar Galactica 3.5 - "Collaborators" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117 "2006-10-27T14:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/101 "2006-10-29T01:08:23Z")
[QUOTE=anu-la1979] Oh, and am I the only one who started giggling at the sniffly “I did what I could?” rub-snot-off-nose line? Is Gaeta forever going to be that unsung hero nerd who ends up saved by the Nice Jock? Come on, man, use those brain cells… [/QUOTE] Well, no. I didn’t giggle. But I heartily agree Gaeta needs to realize he’s way fraking smarter than the rest of those Colonial bozos. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/102 "2006-10-29T01:11:05Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] Just don’t know what RDM’s on about here. [/QUOTE] Given his Scotch, smokes and Mrs. Ron on the podcasts, I’d say “Cigarettes and whiskey and wild, wild women!” I don’t have a problem with it. I’ll accept what he says happened off camera. As to the mail drop, I’d leave some super duper secret stuff in a place I hoped only the resistance would find it, with a note saying, > [@](#): > > For more super duper secret stuff, look in (such and such a place) when the yellow dog bowl is turned over. > It is safer for us all if we do not know who we are. > > P.S. > I am not Felix Gaeta. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/103 "2006-10-29T01:17:46Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] Instead, there was nothing but silence and a mopey countenance. Obviously, whoever Gaeta was telling, he didn’t do it much on camera. He sure didn’t seem much inclined to share his explanation with command, for some bizarre reason. And what he did tell on camera fell woefully short of what he could have. Just don’t know what RDM’s on about here. [/QUOTE] RDM is on about _Gaeta had given up_. He had no hope that _anyone_ was going to believe him. His life for the past year had been turned into living through Hell – he’d followed his ideals to join up with his idol, Baltar, who turned out to be a pill-popping womanizer, who then collaborated with the Cylons. Everyone hated Gaeta. He’d tried to tell people the truth. No one believed him. And now you’re seriously suggesting that he’d think that _Saul Tigh_!!! of all people would believe him??? If Gaeta even _wanted_ to be believed at that point, which he obviously didn’t. He’d _given up_; he was a broken man. It’s called depression, and Gaeta was obviously suffering under it – look at him on the Galactica hanger after they’re evacuated, and again eating his meal alone, and again when he comes into the CIC: he’s hunched over, withdrawn into himself, not reacting to anything. He’s dead inside. You keep decrying that people on BSG aren’t acting like _you_ think they should be acting – it’s preventing you from understanding why they are behaving as they are. You need to let go of your expectations that the characters will do the things that you think they should be doing. Unless you’re secretly Ron Moore, they won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/104 "2006-10-29T01:24:53Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] It’s called depression, and Gaeta was obviously suffering under it [/QUOTE] Hey, I said above that’s the only thing that makes any sense. Not that I don’t think it was a cheap conceit smuggled in to create gratuitous drama that strained dramatic plausibility, and that I predicted it would happen a week ago, but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/105 "2006-10-29T01:27:31Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] Everyone hated Gaeta. He’d tried to tell people the truth. No one believed him. And now you’re seriously suggesting that he’d think that _Saul Tigh_!!! of all people would believe him??? [/QUOTE] See, here’s the deal. Again, it’s my opinion and not Moores, so it doesn’t matter…any more than I wanted Gull Dukat to end up being a Good Bad Guy…but here goes. Three days seems kind of quick for depression over not being believed. Day one back, I’d do some serious drinking to celebrate. Probably run across Tighe here, 'cause I only study with the best. I some point between Morose Introspection and Shit Faced, we’d discover we were really great pals and get this who gave the super duper secrets to who…whom? straightened out. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/106 "2006-10-29T01:35:14Z")
Nah, I wasn’t meaning to imply that Gaeta’s depression descended on him in only three days (although I know people to whom that happens). I think he was depressed _waaay_ back during “Final Cut” – when D’Anna interviewed him. His escape to New Caprica didn’t work to shake him out of it. It just made things worse when he found out what his guy Baltar was _really_ like. By the time he thought he’d failed in stopping Baltar’s mass-execution order, I think he’d given up. He’d certainly given up by the time he was going to shoot Baltar. Even though Baltar talked him out of it, once he left Gaeta didn’t really seem to make any effort to save himself. We didn’t really see how he got to Galactica; he probably just got taken along for the ride when Roslyn got Colonial One, and then transported with the other refugees, to Galactica. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/107 "2006-10-29T01:49:15Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Tigh appears to have been reinstated as XO, but it looks like Adama may end up regreting it. Is RDM just going ignore the fact that Lee outranks Tigh? [/QUOTE] I was wondering if Lee was going to be reinstated as the CAG, even though he’s a commander. That would be a good way to take care of the Cat/Starbuck rivalry, at any rate, which I imagine could rear it’s ugly head before too long. Not that I think Admiral Adama would be motivated by that. Adama’s reliance on/pretection of Tigh has got to have a limit. It’s always been a bit baffling, but Adama’s Character Flaw[sup]TM[/sup] has always been this tendency to be excessively loyal to those he has an affection for. Usually it serves him well in the long run, but Tigh is Tigh, and Adama has had a very different sort of XO for a year and four months. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/108 "2006-10-29T02:03:31Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] When we see the Galactica’s bridge in “Exodus,” Capt. Kelly is seated at one of the computer consuls while Helo is acting as XO. So it looks like Kelly was temporarily filling Gaeta’s old position. He’s likely to go back to being LSO, though – particularly now that Galactica has so many more Vipers to launch. I don’t think we need consider him for any of the position-jockying. [/quote] I agree he won’t be involved in any position-jockeying. What intrigues me about him though is he isn’t a one-off character like Lt. Birch or any of the crew of Pegasus under Admiral Cain. They keep bringing the guy back. I guess it’s kinda like what I said in last week’s thread. They need someone to be in charge during the night-shift, and he’s it. > [@](#): > > I’m interested to see how Boomer gets treated. She’ll probably do okay with the pilots and such who stayed aboard the Fleet, but I’d think those that were under the Cylon occupation on New Caprica won’t be pleased to see her… Her absence this week was conspicuous, wasn’t it? Is she going to simply fade back into the crew or is her reinstatement going to be a major issue? Can’t argue she wasn’t critical to the rescue. Thousands and thousands of people owe her their lives. As they owe Gaeta their lives. Maybe they’ll become closer buds? Gaeta’s probably a Cylon anyway. **Lightray** , I agree Gaeta’s been depressed a long time. He’s a bit shy, insecure and idolized Baltar the celebrity genius. He couldn’t imagine Baltar could be wrong. On Caprica he became a pseudo co-dependant spouse who stayed the course because Baltar was “under a lot of pressure.” Once the occupation came along he really didn’t have much choice but to stay and do what he could. The whole time though, he hated himself more and more. By the time he got back on Galactica he really didn’t give a frak what anyone thought. The thing that bugs me is how no one can even entertain the notion Gaeta could be the mysterious inside person giving them intel from Baltar’s office. Tigh himself said something like “I don’t like this either. I served side-by-side with him for four years. Oh well. Let’s execute the traitor!” It really truly never occurred to anyone Gaeta might have been helping? How many people within Baltar’s inner sanctums could be the source? Oh well. I guess we’re flogging a dead horse here. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/109 "2006-10-29T02:04:19Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] Adama’s reliance on/pretection of Tigh has got to have a limit. [/QUOTE] Here is a spoiler from the pod cast Moore said that Tighe was going to have some difficulty “fitting back in”. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/110 "2006-10-29T02:06:31Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] I’m thinking there may be continuity issues with the 41, 345 number. I thought at one point, it was announce that they were down to 40k on New Caprica, after the loss of the Cloud 9. Buncha folks died on New Caprica, during the occupation and during the breakout. Unless there were lots of babies born as well, I think that number should be lower…like 35k or so… [/QUOTE] According to the [Battlestar Wiki](http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Survivor_count), the survivor count has lost 8,115 people since the start of _Lay Down Your Burdens - Part 2_. (Most of these were probably from the nuke on the Cloud 9.) ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/111 "2006-10-29T02:12:25Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Her absence this week was conspicuous, wasn’t it? Is she going to simply fade back into the crew or is her reinstatement going to be a major issue? [/QUOTE] I took her conspicuous absence as a sign that dealing with Mrs. Agathon post-NC will take at least an entire episode by itself, and there simply wasn’t nearly enough space in this ep. to do justice to even a brief appearance. Amnesty for the New Caprican collaborators is one thing, but what about an actual Cylon in the ranks? Again, she’s just got to have crosshairs between her eyes. She’s probably very lucky Cally’s too tuckered out by the rugrat. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/112 "2006-10-29T02:21:41Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] I took her conspicuous absence as a sign that dealing with Mrs. Agathon post-NC will take at least an entire episode by itself, and there simply wasn’t nearly enough space in this ep. to do justice to even a brief appearance. Amnesty for the New Caprican collaborators is one thing, but what about an actual Cylon in the ranks? Again, she’s just got to have crosshairs between her eyes. She’s probably very lucky Cally’s too tuckered out by the rugrat. [/QUOTE] Not only that, but Boomer has to find out Roslyn & Cottle stole her kid, gave it away, now it’s in the hands of the Cylons and… did Adama know and lie to both her and Helo all this time? Definitely calls for a separate episode. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/113 "2006-10-29T02:32:19Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] The thing that bugs me is how no one can even entertain the notion Gaeta could be the mysterious inside person giving them intel from Baltar’s office. Tigh himself said something like “I don’t like this either. I served side-by-side with him for four years. Oh well. Let’s execute the traitor!” It really truly never occurred to anyone Gaeta might have been helping? How many people within Baltar’s inner sanctums could be the source? [/QUOTE] Eh, Tigh may have _said_ he was bothered by having to kill Gaeta, but that was just to convince the namby-pamby bleeding heart holdouts on the kangaroo court. Tigh – like Starbuck and Dirty Angry Guy – wanted someone to _pay_, for everything that had happened to him. I think he also wanted to justify his own killing of Ellen; if it’s okay to kill the collaborators, then it was okay for him to kill his wife. Tigh was using so much emotional blackmail on Tyrol to get him to vote the way that Tigh wanted, that I don’t put any faith in his lip service to justice. At least Starbuck was honest about why she was in on it. And it’s weird how being not quite as morally bereft as Saul Tigh is now a _little_ better than not being quite as morally bereft as Tom Zarek. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/114 "2006-10-29T02:40:33Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] …did Adama know and lie to both her and Helo all this time? … [/QUOTE] No, Adama doesn’t know about Hera. Only Roslin, her chief of staff, and Cottle know (of course the Cylons do too, but they don’t know the specifics). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/115 "2006-10-29T02:40:54Z")
Didn’t the line “we left a few thousand behind on the planet” refer to the people killed during the escape, or even the occupation, not that there were any known survivors? I can’t see the fleet jumping entirely away otherwise, not without some Raptors with Viper cover looking for them. That would be just too loose an end to leave - it’s out of character. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/116 "2006-10-29T02:43:01Z")
That’s not correct. Adama was totally in on the ruse from the beginning. It’s not clear if he’s as aware of Hera’s fate presently as Roslin is. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/117 "2006-10-29T02:49:11Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Didn’t the line “we left a few thousand behind on the planet” refer to the people killed during the escape, or even the occupation, not that there were any known survivors? I can’t see the fleet jumping entirely away otherwise, not without some Raptors with Viper cover looking for them. That would be just too loose an end to leave - it’s out of character. [/QUOTE] Give the bodies lying around when 3 was poking around the Oracle’s tent, I figured similar or even more carnage-filled sights could be had all over New Caprica City, and that would in fact add up to at least several hundred dead, if not some low number of thousands. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/118 "2006-10-29T02:53:59Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] Adama was totally in on the ruse from the beginning. [/QUOTE] I don’t remember that [QUOTE=Loopydude] It’s not clear if he’s as aware of Hera’s fate presently as Roslin is. [/QUOTE] I don’t think Roslin knows she is still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/119 "2006-10-29T02:57:58Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] That’s not correct. Adama was totally in on the ruse from the beginning. It’s not clear if he’s as aware of Hera’s fate presently as Roslin is. [/QUOTE] He wasn’t present when Roslyn and Tory and Cottle talked about Isis. Was there some other scene when he acknowledged knowing about what really happened to the baby? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117/120 "2006-10-29T03:06:58Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] I don’t remember that. [/QUOTE] Weren’t Adama, Roslin, and Cottle together in a scene deciding to stage Hera’s death (with Cottle expressing misgivings). I think after that, only Cottle and the President discuss the adoption with Maya. At least, I don’t remember him in that scene. But I didn’t take his absence to indicate he was out of the loop. In fact, his presence would have seemed kind of odd, I should think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-5-collaborators-spoilers/378117.md?page=7)