# Battlestar Galactica 3.7 - "A Measure of Salvation" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 10, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897 "2006-11-10T17:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/101 "2006-11-11T23:34:34Z")
[QUOTE=Quixotic] Now. All that said, _my_ question remains: How the hell does the destruction of a resurrection ship result in the genocide of Cylons? We’ve alrerady seen a resurrection ship destroyed. At worst, it would have resulted in the destruction of the Cylon _fleet_ (which is what Simon actually says), as the infected fleet simply warns all other Cylons to stay away. I’m not following how infecting this one fleet’s resurrection ship manages to infect the entire Cylon race; they’d simply isolate and/or destroy the fleet like they isolated and destroyed the infected baseship and the matter would be over. Many more Cylons would die, yes, but are we supposed to believe the Cylons have only one fleet now, like the Colonials? When the frak did that happen? [/QUOTE] As you said, Simon only refers to the Cylon fleet. Is anyone in the human fleet aware of the disposition of Cylon forces? I mean, do they know that their pursuers are likely only a splinter group? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/102 "2006-11-12T00:17:51Z")
[QUOTE=Quixotic] Now. All that said, _my_ question remains: How the hell does the destruction of a resurrection ship result in the genocide of Cylons? We’ve alrerady seen a resurrection ship destroyed. At worst, it would have resulted in the destruction of the Cylon _fleet_ (which is what Simon actually says), as the infected fleet simply warns all other Cylons to stay away. I’m not following how infecting this one fleet’s resurrection ship manages to infect the entire Cylon race; they’d simply isolate and/or destroy the fleet like they isolated and destroyed the infected baseship and the matter would be over. Many more Cylons would die, yes, but are we supposed to believe the Cylons have only one fleet now, like the Colonials? When the frak did that happen? [/QUOTE] Nice post, and I agree with you on most of it. Maybe there is a concern of an infected Cylon island-hopping from Res Ship to Res Ship all the way through their entire civilization? Extremely weak, I know. Unless a Cylon away from a Res Ship doesn’t really die-die. Maybe they’ll eventually be resurrected but it’ll take a LONG time to get back to their bodies - what if it takes them thousands of years to get back? What’s the likelihood of their data being corrupted on the way back? Maybe something like that would result in the virus making it back to any resurrection facility **anywhere** …eventually. Of course, that gives the rest of the Cylons a couple thousand years to put together a cure for this thing. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/103 "2006-11-12T00:24:48Z")
[QUOTE=Quixotic] Now. All that said, _my_ question remains: How the hell does the destruction of a resurrection ship result in the genocide of Cylons? We’ve alrerady seen a resurrection ship destroyed. At worst, it would have resulted in the destruction of the Cylon _fleet_ (which is what Simon actually says), as the infected fleet simply warns all other Cylons to stay away. I’m not following how infecting this one fleet’s resurrection ship manages to infect the entire Cylon race; they’d simply isolate and/or destroy the fleet like they isolated and destroyed the infected baseship and the matter would be over. Many more Cylons would die, yes, but are we supposed to believe the Cylons have only one fleet now, like the Colonials? When the frak did that happen? [/QUOTE] I don’t think “fleet” means what you think it means. 😉 It appears everytime you’ve got two or three or maybe four Basestars together you have a “fleet.” No matter how many of those suckers you blow up next week they’ve got two or three or four more of those babies. The “fleet” they attempted to take out this week appears to be just a Cylon “supply line” fleet and different from the “fleet” Baltar is with. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/104 "2006-11-12T00:53:21Z")
Heh. I was half expecting the artifact to turn out to be the RTG from _Voyager 2_, or something. (BTW…I missed the season premiere. How bad _were_ things on New Caprica, anyway? I mean, aside from being dominated by genocidal robot overlords who tortured and executed rebel prisoners (no doubt because they were miffed about Col. Ahab…er, Tigh’s guerilla campaign.)—were they actively killing humans for sport, or something? Cutting food rations? Experimenting on toddlers? Denying the Fremen their Haj?) And I’m, naturally, with Roslyn—if they were remembered as monsters, it’d be because there are people alive to remember them. An admittedly regrettable but distinguishable outcome (to coin a phrase) than extinction. Survival of the fittest, baby. Of course, as en enlightened, 21st century guy, I have to note that I wouldn’t advocate destroying the Cylons because they’re “just machines,” or I’m a specist…it’s just because they’re the _enemy_. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/105 "2006-11-12T00:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] The “fleet” they attempted to take out this week appears to be just a Cylon “supply line” fleet and different from the “fleet” Baltar is with. [/QUOTE] Well, yeah; that’s my point exactly. As **Merijeek** tried to reason out, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to equate the infection of one resurrection ship with the genocide of the whole Cylon race. Or maybe as **Struan** indicates, the Colonials believe there is only one Cylon fleet. But I can’t see how that follows from experience either. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/106 "2006-11-12T01:11:46Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] …but it’ll take a LONG time to get back to their bodies - what if it takes them thousands of years to get back? What’s the likelihood of their data being corrupted on the way back?.. [/QUOTE] That’s an interesting thought. Of course Gina didn’t seem to be aware of this when she wanted the R-ship destroyed so she could commit suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/107 "2006-11-12T01:12:51Z")
[QUOTE=Ranchoth] Of course, as en enlightened, 21st century guy, I have to note that I wouldn’t advocate destroying the Cylons because they’re “just machines,” or I’m a specist…it’s just because they’re the _enemy_. [/QUOTE] Okay, Lister. 🙂 I agree - it’s not that they’re “just machines”. Hell, I could happily spend my days under a pile of Sixes, Eights, and Threes. I can’t say the same about the lawnmower, leafblower, and microwave. However, the Cylons took their shot at wiping out humanity and missed. Suddenly we’re supposed to say, “Gosh, we don’t want to be as bad as you.” Hell, if you’re going to do that, just lay down and die. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/108 "2006-11-12T01:21:19Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] the Cylons took their shot at wiping out humanity and missed. [/QUOTE] Indeed. I’ts not like there were little baby Cylons, Mommy Cylons waiting for Daddy Cylon to come home from the tomato farm. Which US Admiral was it who proclaimed during WWII, “The only place Japanese will be spoken is in hell”? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/109 "2006-11-12T01:21:44Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] However, the Cylons took their shot at wiping out humanity and missed. Suddenly we’re supposed to say, “Gosh, we don’t want to be as bad as you.” Hell, if you’re going to do that, just lay down and die. -Joe [/QUOTE] But Helo made a couple excellent points. First, by occupying New Caprica the Cylons showed that they’d changed from being genocidal. Second, Athena proves that not all Cylons are necessarily programmed machines who blindly follow Cylon doctrine. It becomes much more difficult to rationalize genocide when confronted with the real possibility not every individual of your enemy’s culture shares the same beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/110 "2006-11-12T01:33:22Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] But Helo made a couple excellent points. First, by occupying New Caprica the Cylons showed that they’d changed from being genocidal. Second, Athena proves that not all Cylons are necessarily programmed machines who blindly follow Cylon doctrine. It becomes much more difficult to rationalize genocide when confronted with the real possibility not every individual of your enemy’s culture shares the same beliefs. [/QUOTE] Good points, but I still think the Colonials are justified in using the virus even if it means the genocide of the entire Cylon race. Is it better to be extinct or a slave race? Who cares what history says as long as there’s someone to write it? The Cylons killed 20G people. A small faction of the Cylons then tried to enslave 40K people. It’s clear that the Colonials cannot “live in peace” with the Cylons without bearing an unacceptable cost (eternal subjugation, loss of their religion, etc). And there’s the little matter of Earth. The Colonials believe it to be inhabited, but we haven’t seen them speculating on how advanced the Earthlings are. Are they expecting a civilization on par with the Colonies? It would suck if they led the Cylons to Earth and it turned out to preindustrial. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/111 "2006-11-12T01:46:13Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] First, by occupying New Caprica the Cylons showed that they’d changed from being genocidal. [/QUOTE] To what, plucking out eyes? [QUOTE=levdrakon] Second, Athena proves that not all Cylons are necessarily programmed machines who blindly follow Cylon doctrine. [/QUOTE] Percentages show they are. There is Athena and how many billion other Cylons? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/112 "2006-11-12T02:24:58Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Good points, but I still think the Colonials are justified in using the virus even if it means the genocide of the entire Cylon race. Is it better to be extinct or a slave race? Who cares what history says as long as there’s someone to write it? The Cylons killed 20G people. A small faction of the Cylons then tried to enslave 40K people. It’s clear that the Colonials cannot “live in peace” with the Cylons without bearing an unacceptable cost (eternal subjugation, loss of their religion, etc). [/QUOTE] But in some ways Adama is more romantic and far less pragmatic than Roslyn. He’s made it clear from the very beginning humans should bear the blame for their actions with regard to the Cylons. In some ways, he values the human soul over humanity’s continued existence. Roslyn feels everything is worth it if someone survives to write the history books (typical teacher). She and Tigh ought to get a room. Adama wonders whether that history is worth being written with the blood of humanity’s soul. > [@](#): > > And there’s the little matter of Earth. The Colonials believe it to be inhabited, but we haven’t seen them speculating on how advanced the Earthlings are. Are they expecting a civilization on par with the Colonies? It would suck if they led the Cylons to Earth and it turned out to preindustrial. It would also suck if Earth has become so technologically advanced _and_ xenophobic they blast anything that comes within 100 light years of them, human or Cylon. [QUOTE=carnivorousplant] To what, plucking out eyes? [/quote] Oh, that was probably Cavil. He’s a sick bastard. And Tigh _does_ get pretty lippy. > [@](#): > > Percentages show they are. There is Athena and how many billion other Cylons? 🙂 You tell me. How many billions are there? We haven’t met the other five models “we don’t talk about.” Maybe they’re nice. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/113 "2006-11-12T02:30:59Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] First, I call bullshit that a R-ship has to be in visual range before Cylons can resurrect. Previously in the series a R-ship could be many light years away. That’s the impression I got when Leoben managed to resurrect way back in season one, as well as Boomer resurrecting _way the frak back_ on Caprica. [/QUOTE] Although the distance needed to be in range of a Resurrection Ship seems to be quite long, you’re forgetting that Cylons can “box” models who have downloaded. They knew that Boomer was going to be a problematic resurrection, so they probably boxed her until they could transmit her to Caprica. And the Resurrection Ship didn’t need to be in range for the sick skinjobs to resurrect – but the Colonials needed to _know_ it was in range before they shot their wad, and the only way they know they’re in range is if they see the ship. (Still a stupid episode.) Did anyone else realize when D’Anna had Baltar in the dentist’s couch that the Cylons _have sophisticated torture equipment readily available_. That’s kind of creepy, whether they’ve been torturing captured humans all along, or if they’ve been torturing _each other_. Given the previews for next episode, I’m guessing its the former. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/114 "2006-11-12T02:44:58Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] And the Resurrection Ship didn’t need to be in range for the sick skinjobs to resurrect – but the Colonials needed to _know_ it was in range before they shot their wad, and the only way they know they’re in range is if they see the ship. (Still a stupid episode.) [/quote] I agree the Colonials would want to know the rez-ship was in range but we also know based on the episode _Scar_ the Cylons won’t risk a Basestar in a confrontation with a Battlestar unless there _is_ a rez-ship in range. > [@](#): > > Did anyone else realize when D’Anna had Baltar in the dentist’s couch that the Cylons _have sophisticated torture equipment readily available_. That’s kind of creepy, whether they’ve been torturing captured humans all along, or if they’ve been torturing _each other_. Actually, I have to wonder if they have the slightest idea how to torture a human. Little electrode thimbles on your fingertips? Yawn. A little buzzy-thing in your ear? Please. Okay, it causes a little bleeding but my dentist has done far worse things to me and he wasn’t even trying to torture me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/115 "2006-11-12T02:47:20Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Roslyn feels everything is worth it if someone survives to write the history books (typical teacher). Adama wonders whether that history is worth being written with the blood of humanity’s soul. [/QUOTE] If me may attribute motivation to characters in story telling conceived from episode to episode (according to the podcasts, but I digress) I would say Roslyn acts as a Mother, protective towards a family, and Adama as a military officer, honor above all. [QUOTE=levdrakon] She and Tigh ought to get a room. [/QUOTE] Or she could demote Adama to cleaning out heads with a razor blabe and promote Tigh to command of the fleet. Before you object, remember the dipsomanic Ulysses S. Grant, damn his eyes. [QUOTE=levdrakon] And Tigh _does_ get pretty lippy. [/QUOTE] Good point. More power to him. [QUOTE=levdrakon] You tell me. How many billions are there? We haven’t met the other five models “we don’t talk about.” Maybe they’re nice. [/QUOTE] Dang, you’d think this is something important, like Trek. 🙂 Given that we and the colonists have limited knowledge of Cylon behavior, I’d assume for survival purposes that all the Cylons rip out eyes, kill babies and give the video game “Kill all Humans” to their children at Christmas. Caprica 6 told Baltar that essentially the Cylons cannot allow the humans to survive lest their descendents come about hunting Cylons for revenge. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/116 "2006-11-12T02:50:38Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Actually, I have to wonder if they have the slightest idea how to torture a human. [/QUOTE] I’d have to agree that one could probably get Baltar to give you his Mother’s PIN number by tweakng his nose, but given the difficulty Moore had with the network showing torture (remember the warnings they stuck up after commercials) I’d say it was actually supposed to be pretty nasty. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/117 "2006-11-12T03:10:27Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] I’d have to agree that one could probably get Baltar to give you his Mother’s PIN number by tweakng his nose, but given the difficulty Moore had with the network showing torture (remember the warnings they stuck up after commercials) I’d say it was actually supposed to be pretty nasty. [/QUOTE] True, it probally should have been bloodier (& aren’t torture victims usually nude?), but perhaps it wasn’t just electric shocks Baltar was getting. Perhaps the Cylons were somehow tapping into his central nervous system cause him to feel extreme pain with no physical damage. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/118 "2006-11-12T03:14:06Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Perhaps the Cylons were somehow tapping into his central nervous system cause him to feel extreme pain with no physical damage. [/QUOTE] Could be, but not really important; when they, being Cylons or Neanderthals, put the bolt cutters on my privates and ask for Mama’s PIN, I’m putting out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/119 "2006-11-12T03:17:54Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] Could be, but not really important; when they, being Cylons or Neanderthals, put the bolt cutters on my privates and ask for Mama’s PIN, I’m putting out. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Of course in Baltar’s case he had no information to give them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897/120 "2006-11-12T03:23:35Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Of course in Baltar’s case he had no information to give them. [/QUOTE] Seriously, I believe that under the circumstances, one tells them what they want to hear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-3-7-a-measure-of-salvation-spoilers/379897.md?page=7)