# Battlestar Galactica 4.13 - "Sometimes a Great Notion" (spoilers aplenty) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 16, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601 "2009-01-16T15:28:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/41 "2009-01-17T04:05:00Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > You’d think there’d be more random fucking in the hallways as well as violence. I think the sudden, crushing realization that everything you’ve fought for, and your friends have died for, is less than a lie, would have a dampening effect on libidos throughout the Fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/42 "2009-01-17T04:11:01Z")
Well, _that_ was all fracked up. I’d say I’m definitely hooked, again. Although I’d’ve liked to see more of Baltar’s and the Cylons’ reactions to the whole mess. Have to say, Mary was looking pretty damn haggard as the Roslyn, and it really worked here. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/43 "2009-01-17T04:11:24Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > If Ellen is the final Cylon then what the hell is Kara? WAG: Destiny’s Child. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/44 "2009-01-17T04:11:46Z")
Ok, so Helen is the 5th, but somehow Kara was resurrected like a Cylon? Are we going to go down the “ultimately, everyone is a Cylon” path? ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/45 "2009-01-17T04:13:11Z")
I don’t know why, but it started for me (Comcast SciFi HD, San Francisco) at 7pm PST, and will be on again at 9pm Pacific. > [@Mr Excellent](#): > > There was always a feeling that she and Apollo had no real chemistry - but tonight, damn. And that’s exactly why I suspected _some_thing. Not that, though my roommate (watching his first ever ep) called it. So yes, what the frak is Kara? I almost think, if Ellen isn’t outed to the rest of the fleet, that Kara might kill herself out of shame because she may think she’s the final Cylon. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/46 "2009-01-17T04:13:41Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > Tigh killed the Fifth Cylon Eh, they all died once before and came back. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/47 "2009-01-17T04:15:59Z")
I’m a toaster, he’s a toaster, She’s a toaster, we’re a toaster, Wouldn’t you like to be a toaster, too? ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/48 "2009-01-17T04:16:52Z")
Okay, so _Ellen Tigh_ was co creator of some master plan? Never struck me as the super genious, plots & plans laying type! And, yeah, what the frak is Starbuck? Bill Adama is an ugly drunk! ---
**Author:** ![Prox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/49 "2009-01-17T04:18:49Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Are we going to go down the “ultimately, everyone is a Cylon” path? I think so. It really seemed like Dee recognized those jacks and whatever was in the locket. I can see her thinking she’s a Cylon and killing herself to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/50 "2009-01-17T04:20:21Z")
As a guess, I’m going to note that everyone has been obsessed since the miniseries about the 12 colonies, 12 gods, 12 Cylons thing. Except… there were _13_ tribes, and apparently another god somewhere in there. So, 13 tribes, 13 gods, … ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/51 "2009-01-17T04:23:36Z")
> [@Prox](#): > > I think so. It really seemed like Dee recognized those jacks and whatever was in the locket. I can see her thinking she’s a Cylon and killing herself to be sure. But the Resurrection Hub was taken out two episodes back, the Meatbags can no longer download, so Dee killing herself to “see if she’s a Cylon”, hoping she’d resurrect, doesn’t work, as now the meatbags are just as mortal as humans TPTB did it just to frak with us, kill a likable character purely for shock value ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/52 "2009-01-17T04:30:44Z")
So. When Ellen Tigh was killed, she was in range of a Rez ship… ---
**Author:** ![Garula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Garula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garula)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/53 "2009-01-17T04:30:48Z")
I don’t think we’re supposed to read anything into Dee having any special memories of the jacks. I think it was as simple as that confronted with a completely hopeless situation, she couldn’t bear to go on and decided to die happy. I do think they’re going for the humans were built by cyclons who were built by humans who were built by cylons ad infinitum route. It seems like the only reasonable interpretation of the “happened before, will happen again” stuff. I also suspect that Ellen, despite being the fifth cylon, is still dead for real. At least I hope so, because that’s more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/54 "2009-01-17T04:34:33Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > So. When Ellen Tigh was killed, she was in range of a Rez ship… One would think that the initial seven (not nearly as pithy as “final five”, that) would have known if the rez ship contained a bunch of meatdrives that weren’t for them. They’ve given no indication of any higher authority than them, so they’re the ones who built the rez ship in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/55 "2009-01-17T04:38:14Z")
If the Final Five could resurrect via a Rez Ship or the Hub, the other models of Cylons could’ve just walked in and _looked at the bodies waiting there for them_ to figure out who the Final Five were. Remember, we’ve seen what a Rez Ship looks like – and it’s all bodies in storage waiting for a resurrection. Presumably, whatever resurrected Starbuck is also what resurrected the Final Five when they got sent to the Colonies, and what could potentially resurrect Ellen or Dee or whoever else the frack is a Cylon. Really interesting how they’re writing this, though. Lots of this has been set up for so long and regarded as so obvious that it was discounted by fans long ago. Ellen’s suspicious discovery in the fleet was cause for fans to immediately tag her as another Cylon model. Then she was so messed up that they abandoned that theory. Starbuck’s end in a gooey space kablooey was so shocking that fans thought it was _too_ obvious she’d be a Cylon. So they abandoned _that_ theory. Makes me wonder what else they set up. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/56 "2009-01-17T04:45:19Z")
I dunno about the “we’re all cylons” thing. Apparently there remains a detectable difference in cylon vs human remains. The remains found on earth all happened to be cylon…but humans exist, so they must have come from somewhere. Earth apparently isn’t home. Nice shot, Dee? Really didn’t see that coming. Leoben seems scared of Frankenstarbuck. Don’t think he appeared on screen after that scene. Chief used to be a nerd. Anders was in a cover band. Adam and Eve may have been Saul and Ellen. All of humanity somehow descended from a pair of horny cylon lushes. Or not. Oh…and Ellen is about to be reborn as soon as Six delivers…I think ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/57 "2009-01-17T04:50:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I dunno about the “we’re all cylons” thing. Apparently there remains a detectable difference in cylon vs human remains. The plague to which the initial seven were fatally vulnerable didn’t affect the final four, so there are detectable differences between subsets of cylons too. I’m betting (and likely to be wrong, given the track record of fan predictions for BSG) that humanity’s salvation will be found in some higher resurrection technology that was already used on Starbuck, and was used to set the whole plan in motion millenia ago. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/58 "2009-01-17T04:56:39Z")
I theorize that what Ellen was talking about was the first (experimental?) resurrection ship and she and the other 4 (or 11) were uploaded. When and where and how many times they’ve been downloaded into clones is up in the air at this point. This ship might explain where the new Kara came from, although there are a lot of problems with that. (Where did the new Viper come from?) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/59 "2009-01-17T04:57:23Z")
Amazing episode. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/60 "2009-01-17T05:12:30Z")
There must be an undisclosed base somewhere in the vicinity of Earth (on it, in it, or around it?) with a resurrection hub. Something that allowed those that died in the holocaust 2000 yrs ago to awaken. I’m guessing it was some sort of Cylon civil war on earth between different model types (the 5 against the 7?). When the 5 models awoke in the hidden rez base, they decided to flee to one of the other 12 human colonies and live amongst them as humans. Perhaps after so many years, the mysterious 5 became immortalized and eventually worshiped (who knows?) by the other 7. And I like the idea that there is a secret 13th (Starbuck). Not sure what the role would be there… but it fits in with the numeric symbology of the show. I’m sure all that’s _waaay_ off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601.md?page=4)