# Battlestar Galactica 4.13 - "Sometimes a Great Notion" (spoilers aplenty) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 16, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601 "2009-01-16T15:28:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/121 "2009-01-18T05:18:20Z")
Anyone else think that the five Earth cylons (Tigh, Ellen, Tyrol, Anders, Tory) actually downloaded at light speed to the area of space near the 12 colonies, rather than at FTL speed? 2000 years ago would mean they transmitted about 2000 light-years (minus their current lifespan, of course), which seems a reasonable figure for how far away Earth is. The other cylons who escaped the Earth holocaust just took off by normal means with jump drives/etc., not transmission. This would also explain why the Final Five are considered to be so different from the other cylons; they’re from an age gone by. The significance of the Final Five in terms of how they actually serve the plot (other than the anguish/pleasure [Tory] of knowing who they are) is still very unclear, though. Perhaps they’re the only ones that can mate with humans and have hybrids? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/122 "2009-01-18T05:26:19Z")
We know the program obeys physics in that the Cylons saw the nuke go off a light year away a year after the event occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/123 "2009-01-18T05:48:50Z")
Well, except that if you pay close attention, they appear to have some sort of faster-than-light radio technology. (This is especially bad in the miniseries, where people have conversations with each other in real time from all over the solar system while the battle rages.) So as with most mainstream SF, the physics are … flexible. (Also, that “we saw it from a light-year away” thing sounds good, except that on galactic scales, a light year is basically no distance at all; it’s the empty void a little ways from a star, not anywhere close to the next star. It doesn’t make a lot of sense for the Colonials to be goofing off on their planet, and the Cylons to be hanging out a light-year away, where there’s probably nothing at all worth seeing or doing.) The show is about the characters and their relationships. The science doesn’t bear close examination. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/124 "2009-01-18T06:11:10Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > As **Mahaloth** notes, you can see from the interview with the writer that, according to internal show numbering, this is indeed episode 13. At the time “Razor” aired, it was made very clear by the show’s producers that they were using episodes 1 and 2 of their 22-episode commitment to make the movie; they emphasized this so the fanbase wouldn’t wonder why the 22 episodes they had so excitedly read about a few months before had somehow shrunk to 20. “Razor” is included as part of the Season 4.0 DVD set so it’s pretty clear that the powers-that-be regard it as part of Season 4. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/125 "2009-01-18T07:10:28Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > The show is about the characters and their relationships. The science doesn’t bear close examination. Starbuck’s weird Viper is proof of that, too. Its radio is the only one that can receive the signal from Earth – and that signal is defying the time to reach the fleet, too… it took them _several_ jumps to reach Earth, so probably multiple light-years from where the fleet was. Yet she’d been gone less than a year since Maelstrom, so her original Viper’s radio couldn’t have been there longer to be broadcasting across light-year distances. Plus the whole antigravity thing. And the demonstratably valid prophecies and visions. This definitely ain’t hard sci-fi. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/126 "2009-01-18T11:44:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > What I did think was a bit of bad writing was how the one female pilot (Racetrack maybe?) was so upset. Gaeta I can understand because he’s all sensitive and worked closely with her on the bridge. But I don’t think it was ever established that the other two were particulatly close. They’ve lived in the same berthing for _years_. Having lived in environments like that(i.e. a ship), if you spend that much time near someone, you’re going to know everything about them in short order. In fact, you’re likely closer to the people you live near than the ones you work with, since you’ll spend far more off time with them. I really think you guys are just nitpicking. Theres no possible way they can show every interaction with a cast as large as they have. Dee was a popular and well liked person, and her death would have been a severe blow to all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/127 "2009-01-18T13:38:22Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I agree that it’s potentially confusing, but I don’t agree that it’s counter-productive, and I’m not doing it to be contrary, I’m doing it to be consistent. As **Mahaloth** notes, you can see from the interview with the writer that, according to internal show numbering, this is indeed episode 13. At the time “Razor” aired, it was made very clear by the show’s producers that they were using episodes 1 and 2 of their 22-episode commitment to make the movie; they emphasized this so the fanbase wouldn’t wonder why the 22 episodes they had so excitedly read about a few months before had somehow shrunk to 20. And as I said, during the first half of season four, fan sites looked to be split fifty-fifty between using the show’s “official” numbering and the more “sensible” scheme, but for whatever reason, that seems to have changed. I went back and forth on it, but as I looked back to previous threads, I realized that no matter which way it goes, it’s potentially confusing. Either we wind up with threads in the archive that duplicate numbers 11 and 12, which would look weird when people are searching for the discussions later, or we keep going forward with the numbering scheme already established, which has the advantage of also being supported by the show’s own production protocol. Neither was perfect; either way there has to be an explanatory disclaimer (“why are there two #11s and two #12s” vs “why are you calling it #13 when I see #11 on other sites”). Bottom line is, neither one is really right or wrong, or more right than the other one; I just elected to stick with precedent in the interest of long-term clarity, over (yes) short-term clarity but possible long-term confusion. > > ETA: I’m not claiming to be perfect or anything; I mean, heck, I spaced on including the spoiler policy in the OP. (Duh.) All I’m saying is, I sort of flipped a mental coin, and went with my gut. Okay - that’s totally fair. I popped off last night because I was just in one of those moods. Thanks for starting these threads up and maintaining it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/128 "2009-01-18T14:05:27Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > As if poor Tigh doesn’t have enough problems now, not only did he have to kill Ellen, but it turns out she was Number Five! (and now is not alive) > > Tigh killed the Fifth Cylon IIRC Ellen Tigh was killed on New Caprica, thus well in range of resurrection ships (if the Final Five can in fact be resurrectorated). [QUOTE=Chimera] Ok, so Helen is the 5th, but somehow Kara was resurrected like a Cylon? Are we going to go down the “ultimately, everyone is a Cylon” path? [/quote] I was pretty sure that the final Cylon resolution had to be “everybody is a Cylon”. There is no other outcome commensurate with that degree of suspense. Can’t waste a top-tier major character on that plot, and can’t waste that plot on a minor character. If everybody is a Cylon, it can take a whole new direction. Here’s what I think… what the Colonists are calling Cylons are in fact humans like ourselves, and humans like ourselves got nuked off Earth 1.0 by the Tricia Helfer cylons. Over the eons, the 2 races change roles regarding who is considered “human” and who is “machine”. Ellen Tigh might have been the “5th Cylon” but maybe only the 5th of that special class, or the 5th one activated in the fleet at that time, etc… no way she can be the pivotal one. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/129 "2009-01-18T14:18:44Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > IIRC Ellen Tigh was killed on New Caprica, thus well in range of resurrection ships (if the Final Five can in fact be resurrectorated). That’s one thing that everyone seems to be missing no matter how many times it gets explained. If there were spare Final Five bodies waiting for a download (at the standard resurrection ships and hub), the identities of the Final Five wouldn’t be a big secret. Any Cylon who felt like it could just stroll down the hall of the Hub or Resurrection Ship and look through some windows. I still like the idea of non-FTL resurrection going on, with new life and bodies for all. Not that it explains Starbuck and her Viper, of course. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/130 "2009-01-18T14:37:10Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > That’s one thing that everyone seems to be missing no matter how many times it gets explained. If there were spare Final Five bodies waiting for a download (at the standard resurrection ships and hub), the identities of the Final Five wouldn’t be a big secret. Any Cylon who felt like it could just stroll down the hall of the Hub or Resurrection Ship and look through some windows. Nah… the initial 7 don’t run the ships; the hybrids do. You don’t see a bunch of Cavils going around running network cable or spackling over battle damage. In episode 4.1, #6 said that they were “programmed not to think” about the final 5. So the extra bodies could easily be stashed in a storage closet labeled “PARTS”, guarded with an encrypted security badge, and nobody would be the wiser. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/131 "2009-01-18T14:45:18Z")
On a completely unrelated note… Am I the only one who cannot detect a trace of “All Along The Watchtower” in the spooky Final 5 theme? That’s what it’s supposed to be, but damned if I can hear. All I hear is “Cars” by Gary Numan. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/132 "2009-01-18T15:32:56Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Plus the whole antigravity thing. And the demonstratably valid prophecies and visions. This definitely ain’t hard sci-fi. BSG is about as hard as Star Wars. It’s as much fantasy - adult, George R.R. Martin’s \*Dance of Ice and Fire \*-style fantasy- as it is science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/133 "2009-01-18T15:48:59Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Nah… the initial 7 don’t run the ships; the hybrids do. You don’t see a bunch of Cavils going around running network cable or spackling over battle damage. In episode 4.1, #6 said that they were “programmed not to think” about the final 5. So the extra bodies could easily be stashed in a storage closet labeled “PARTS”, guarded with an encrypted security badge, and nobody would be the wiser. I vote for the proverbial “junk” drawer in the kitchen. Thats where I always find all the misc stuff 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/134 "2009-01-18T17:09:52Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Nah… the initial 7 don’t run the ships; the hybrids do. You don’t see a bunch of Cavils going around running network cable or spackling over battle damage. In episode 4.1, #6 said that they were “programmed not to think” about the final 5. So the extra bodies could easily be stashed in a storage closet labeled “PARTS”, guarded with an encrypted security badge, and nobody would be the wiser. But in the episode of with the Resurrection ship we’re shown something (recon photos or just a strange POV shot) where the camera zooms up to a pod and shows us a Six’s face. D’Anna is having her brains blown out regularly by a Centurion so she can see the Final Five but she won’t open up the ‘Employees Only’ door? I don’t buy that. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/135 "2009-01-18T17:22:17Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > But in the episode of with the Resurrection ship we’re shown something (recon photos or just a strange POV shot) where the camera zooms up to a pod and shows us a Six’s face. Yeah, but Sixes aren’t part of the Final Five. Sixes are workhorse models that get spent and resurrected constantly. It stands to reason that you’d have plenty of spares lying around. It’s been repeatedly said that the Final Five are fundamentally different. > [@](#): > > D’Anna is having her brains blown out regularly by a Centurion so she can see the Final Five but she won’t open up the ‘Employees Only’ door? Sure. It could be that her programming won’t let her. It could be that the secret area has been overlooked. The hybrid not only controls all ship facilities but seems to be aware of a deeper purpose than the Cylons know. The hybrid easily could and would conceal elements of this. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/136 "2009-01-18T17:30:49Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > On a completely unrelated note… > > Am I the only one who cannot detect a trace of “All Along The Watchtower” in the spooky Final 5 theme? That’s what it’s supposed to be, but damned if I can hear. All I hear is “Cars” by Gary Numan. Don’t worry, it’s actually a fairly [offbeat cover of Watchtower by Bear McCreary](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka_sHy9cVH0). It somehow doesn’t sound as cool when it’s not being paired up with that final sequence in Season 3 when four of the Final Five are figuring out what the fuck and then it zooms to an Earth that looks exactly like ours. That had to be one of the most exhilirating 10 minutes in TV history. BTW: Does the Final Five sound like a basketball tournament or a stupid reality TV show episode to anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/137 "2009-01-18T17:35:13Z")
> [@Windwalker](#): > > Don’t worry, it’s actually a fairly [offbeat cover of Watchtower by Bear McCreary](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka_sHy9cVH0). It somehow doesn’t sound as cool when it’s not being paired up with that final sequence in Season 3 when four of the Final Five are figuring out what the fuck and then it zooms to an Earth that looks exactly like ours. OK, great, thanks. There’s a little extra hook in there that throws the whole key off for me. Guess I’m not a Cylon. 🙂 > [@](#): > > BTW: Does the Final Five sound like a basketball tournament or a stupid reality TV show episode to anyone else? Yeah, could have done a bit better than that. Fabulous 5? Furious 5? MC5? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/138 "2009-01-18T17:54:10Z")
If there is a resurrection hub for the final five, it will be on Earth since that is where they were originally from. It’s possible Ellen resurrected here and will be back on the show in upcoming episodes. How Starbuck figures into this I have no idea, but it seems to me that her new body and ship were created on Earth to be returned to the fleet. Something had to take her destroyed ship and body to Earth so her navigational beacon could be activated. That same something enhanced the signal so that only one specific viper could detect it. And that same something is what appears to be orchestrating the current events on the show. I guess we’ll know everthing in 9 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/139 "2009-01-18T17:54:11Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Yeah, could have done a bit better than that. Fabulous 5? Furious 5? MC5? 🙂 Fox Force Five ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601/140 "2009-01-18T17:57:14Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > D’Anna is having her brains blown out regularly by a Centurion so she can see the Final Five but she won’t open up the ‘Employees Only’ door? > > I don’t buy that. > > -Joe You’ve NEVER had to deal with the Cylon “Human” Resources people have you? 😉 I have (well something darn close). Break the rules even a little and man o man! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-13-sometimes-a-great-notion-spoilers-aplenty/481601.md?page=8)