# Battlestar Galactica 4.17 - "No Exit" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696 "2009-02-13T16:22:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/181 "2009-02-16T16:52:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I suspect there aren’t any spare bodies corporeally lying around the rez facilities, but only templates stored in the computers somewhere. When a new body is needed, it’s formed from the Magic Snot. So, Anders will come back as a new Anders, presumably without his scars or his tats but, hey, that can be fixed. Didn’t we see a whole big pile of naked Boomers…sorry, got lost there for a second…in the resurrection hub just before they blowed it up? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/182 "2009-02-16T17:20:19Z")
So… Potentially huge question here. Has Baltar seen HeadSix since the music? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/183 "2009-02-16T17:48:27Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Has Baltar seen HeadSix since the music? She was Caprica Six to him, and she herself is bodily onboard now. That may keep him from imagining her. Or else his embrace of Baltarian-Cylonian monotheism cured him? Were there really unopened crates of Eight bodies on the Hub? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/184 "2009-02-16T17:48:39Z")
The Boomer that rescued Ellen from Cavil is the original Boomer I believe. Who is the Boomer on Galactica? Which one shot Adama? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/185 "2009-02-16T17:52:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The Boomer that rescued Ellen from Cavil is the original Boomer I believe. Yup. > [@](#): > > Who is the Boomer on Galactica? The Eight on Galactica is Athena, who we first saw helping Helo escape the Cylons on Caprica right after the attack. > [@](#): > > Which one shot Adama? The one on John’s baseship. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/186 "2009-02-16T19:01:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > She was Caprica Six to him, and she herself is bodily onboard now. That may keep him from imagining her. Or else his embrace of Baltarian-Cylonian monotheism cured him? Or he got activated. We haven’t seen a lot of stuff inside his head lately. From now on my money is on Baltar being Daniel. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/187 "2009-02-16T19:03:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I suspect there aren’t any spare bodies corporeally lying around the rez facilities, but only templates stored in the computers somewhere. When a new body is needed, it’s formed from the Magic Snot. So, Anders will come back as a new Anders, presumably without his scars or his tats but, hey, that can be fixed. [According to the BattlestarWiki](http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Download), they do keep spare bodies laying around, lying in the snot bath waiting for the memories to be transmitted. Cavil must have had at least one copy of each of the Final Five waiting after he killed them, so it’s possible he has more. Mo Ryan of the Chicago Tribune asked some [fan questions](http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-no-exit-ellen-cavil-boomer.html) of the Jane Espenson and Ryan Mottesheard, writers for the show. The answers are not terribly spoilery, but if you don’t want to be spoiled, I wouldn’t read it. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/188 "2009-02-16T20:05:28Z")
Sorry scanned a bit of the thread and I keep seeing ‘Who’s behind the weirdness?’ ‘Where did the magic Viper come from?’ ‘Who set up the final five temple?’ Wouldn’t that be the original Earth Cylons? They’ve had a few thousand years to ponder what they did to the human/Cylon population on Earth it’s likely they’ve formed their own cult/ideas about it and no doubt has all sorts of tech and have discovered the remains of the resurrection program from Earth. Seems like they’re trying to set up a reunion once they’ve made sure these humans have the right mindset to join up with them. I don’t know if someone else has said this but it seems the most obvious answer to me. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/189 "2009-02-16T20:26:59Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > What if Kara is simply a human who got downloaded and resurrected by whoever is minding the machinery over at Ellen’s lab? Just like the first time the final five did it to themselves? That means she’s now the same type of being as the “final five”. > > Why would the “final five” feel the need to create a human from scratch instead of just procreating? What was the point of that? Cavil and some of his allies are proof that they didn’t have any special recipe. > > I bet Baltar got resurrected too. He survived the shock wave of a nuclear blast, remember? Thereafter he started seeing someone who wasn’t there. > > Maybe the act of being resurrected gives you the “early warning system” of seeing people who aren’t there. > > Perhaps the Hybrid called Kara the “Harbinger of Death” because she was resurrected. Interesting ideas. There appears to be a mysterious third player in this story, and that third player, whether from Kobol or maybe even the original inhabitants of “our” earth, has potentially had thousands of years to create a resurrection process that can download humans and put them into bodies that are pretty much exact replicas right down to the cell, but technically, Cylon. Everyone could be Cylon, or once you get down to it, there’s no meaningful difference between a resurrected human and a Cylon. If you get a new body and transfer your consciousness into it, what are you? This third player may not need to keep copies of you around. They may be able to build a copy of you from a DNA sample, as needed. Kinda like in _The Fifth Element._ Someone mentioned Anders being reborn without his tattoos, but Starbuck was evidently rebuilt with tattoos intact, so that’s not a problem. I’d still like Starbuck to get an x-ray and see if all her old bone fractures are still there or got repaired. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/190 "2009-02-16T20:36:33Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > [According to the BattlestarWiki](http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Download), they do keep spare bodies laying around, lying in the snot bath waiting for the memories to be transmitted. Cavil must have had at least one copy of each of the Final Five waiting after he killed them, so it’s possible he has more… If Cavil has more than one copy of the Final Five (or can grow them on demand) then he wouldn’t need to go after Ellen. He could just activate a new Ellen and vivisect her. Of course he could’ve planned for her to escape along just so she’d lead him to the Fleet and the other Four. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/191 "2009-02-16T20:43:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > She was Caprica Six to him, and she herself is bodily onboard now. That may keep him from imagining her. Or else his embrace of Baltarian-Cylonian monotheism cured him? Baltar was still being visited by Head Six long after Caprica Six boarded the Galactica. She came on board in episode 3.12, “Rapture” after helping Athena get Hera back from the Cylons. Baltar was still seeing Head Six in season 4. IIRC, the last time was when she convinced him to take on the Messiah-hood in 4.4 “Escape Velocity”. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/192 "2009-02-16T20:50:08Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > Wouldn’t that be the original Earth Cylons? They’ve had a few thousand years to ponder what they did to the human/Cylon population on Earth it’s likely they’ve formed their own cult/ideas about it and no doubt has all sorts of tech and have discovered the remains of the resurrection program from Earth. Seems like they’re trying to set up a reunion once they’ve made sure these humans have the right mindset to join up with them. > > I don’t know if someone else has said this but it seems the most obvious answer to me. Although I’m interested in what became of the Earth Centurions, Anders indicated that all of the Final Five saw messengers akin to Baltar’s Head-Six, or Six’s Head-Baltar, or Roslin’s Head-Elosha… that warned the Final Five of the coming Kill All Humans phase of Cylon existence on Earth. So whoever the third player is, it or they have been doing stuff since the Final Five left Earth (if not earlier). ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/193 "2009-02-16T20:50:15Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > If Cavil has more than one copy of the Final Five (or can grow them on demand) then he wouldn’t need to go after Ellen. He could just activate a new Ellen and vivisect her. Of course he could’ve planned for her to escape along just so she’d lead him to the Fleet and the other Four. Without the downloaded consciousness, it’s just an empty body. Vivisecting an empty body would be pointless. It’s the software they need, not the hardware. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/194 "2009-02-16T21:27:37Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Without the downloaded consciousness, it’s just an empty body. Vivisecting an empty body would be pointless. It’s the software they need, not the hardware. The FF were resurrected. Then Cavil killed them and resurrected them again in the colonies with a few memory modifications. It follows that Cavil has their consciousness and original memories stored someplace. Unless, he can’t copy a FF’s consciousness and can only modify and transfer it. It seems unlikely since Boomers can trade memories. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/195 "2009-02-16T21:53:12Z")
However, the last Boomer we’ve seen who traded memories did so _before_ the Resurrection Hub got kablooied. John doesn’t have a Hub any more to resurrect another Ellen copy, and may not have or may not be able to access what memories of hers he _did_ have in the system. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/196 "2009-02-16T22:34:58Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The FF were resurrected. Then Cavil killed them and resurrected them again in the colonies with a few memory modifications. It follows that Cavil has their consciousness and original memories stored someplace. Unless, he can’t copy a FF’s consciousness and can only modify and transfer it. It seems unlikely since Boomers can trade memories. If that were so, he’d have no reason to flay Ellen’s head open. ---
**Author:** ![Levolor\_the\_Blind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc8723/32.png) [@Levolor\_the\_Blind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Levolor_the_Blind)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/197 "2009-02-16T22:47:21Z")
I think Cavil never intended to open Ellen’s head - it was an empty threat. When she called his bluff, he let her escape so she’d lead him to the human fleet. C’mon, the escape was too easy. They could have sent a hundred Raiders after them. Call it the Darth Vader gambit. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/198 "2009-02-16T22:55:39Z")
I agree, introducing indecisive Boomer to Ellen then leaving Boomer alone and in charge of escorting Ellen is pretty suspicious. Well, there was the one Centurion, but it was kinda crushing on Ellen. They should have taken that Centurion with them. We could really get a few more eps out of learning more about the Centurions. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/199 "2009-02-16T23:01:28Z")
> [@Levolor\_the\_Blind](#): > > I think Cavil never intended to open Ellen’s head - it was an empty threat. When she called his bluff, he let her escape so she’d lead him to the human fleet. > > C’mon, the escape was too easy. They could have sent a hundred Raiders after them. Call it the Darth Vader gambit. But I have to believe that his desire to rebuild resurrection technology is sincere, unless you think he already has it. If he really doesn’t have it, why would he let Ellen go? If he does, why isn’t he using it? ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/200 "2009-02-16T23:12:34Z")
note that Kara was gone quite longer then she actually experienced (months vs her days). That should have been enough time to grow a new body from a dna sample (from her crashed viper, or from the download ‘stream’). Maybe they always get a fresh copy of the dna come with the consciousness (which could explain how the new copy always looks just like the old (ie. new ellen the same age as old ellen)). There is a theory I’ve heard that all of our memories are stored directly in our dna. Maybe resurrection just digitizes our dna then uploads it. Personally, I think they’re locked into having all the models stay the same age because they using real actors (they’d have to do lots of make-up or pay additional actors to play younger versions on the models - logistically a pain I’d think - and too many faces to keep straight) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=11)