# Battlestar Galactica 4.17 - "No Exit" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696 "2009-02-13T16:22:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/281 "2009-02-19T22:26:35Z")
If all the people on earth (the 13th tribe) were Cylons, then they must have been early skinjob models who stopped regenerating, and started procreating. OK, but then later, the final 5 (skinjob cylons who survived earth) met up with the Centurions and created the new skinjobs. Huh? Before then, I thought all Cylons were centurions, but I guess not. So along with rediscovering resurrection technology, the 5 also re-invented creating skinjobs from scratch (to create the 8). This was another “lost” technology from Kobol - when the 13th tribe was “created” - they are cylons after all, created by humans. This doesn’t make any sense, but I’m guessing we’re still missing part of the picture. I also still don’t know how they determined that all the bodies on earth were cylons. I thought the skinjobs were identical to humans. In the 5’s flashbacks, the earth appears to be filled with different looking people of all shapes/sizes/races, etc. And they were having kids on earth (recombining dna), so how was the fleet able to test them, and say they were all cylons? They never explained this. The only way I can explain this is that all the humans are cylons. Or, there are no original skin-job cylons, only humans. Or something… ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/282 "2009-02-19T22:40:53Z")
Way, way back in the original miniseries, it was established that they could detect Cylon skinjobs post-mortem – Cottle did _something_ after the autopsy of the Leoben model whom Adama met at Ragnar Anchorage. It is just the determination of _live_ Cylon skinjobs from humans that is tricky. All the bodies they had to test on Earth were dead, so the post-mortem method is what they used. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/283 "2009-02-19T23:24:51Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > But what were the Lords of Kobol, then? Kickass punk band. “Boxah!” ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/284 "2009-02-20T01:39:52Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Kickass punk band. “Boxah!” Now that was clever and has earned…two claps. _clapclap_ -Joe ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/285 "2009-02-20T01:48:10Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > the Lords of Kobol, then? Timmeeehhhhh!!! More seriously, they were what we know as the Greek gods - Zeus, Athena, Apollo, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/286 "2009-02-20T01:52:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Timmeeehhhhh!!! > > More seriously, they were what we know as the Greek gods - Zeus, Athena, Apollo, etc. Yes, but WHAT WHERE THEY? This is a spacefaring culture, not a bunch of primitives who believe that Zeus is up there tossing lightning bolts. If there were 13 Lords of Kobol ruling the 13 tribes they had to be something. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![melodyharmonius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/melodyharmonius/32/21310_2.png) [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/287 "2009-02-20T01:57:20Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Nobody else has even picked up a crayon, IIRC. Actually, Hera has. Remember her coloring all the "6"s? Not that I think she’s Daniel. Just wanted to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/288 "2009-02-20T01:57:41Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > If all the people on earth (the 13th tribe) were Cylons, then they must have been early skinjob models who stopped regenerating, and started procreating. OK, but then later, the final 5 (skinjob cylons who survived earth) met up with the Centurions and created the new skinjobs. Huh? Before then, I thought all Cylons were centurions, but I guess not. So along with rediscovering resurrection technology, the 5 also re-invented creating skinjobs from scratch (to create the 8). This was another “lost” technology from Kobol - when the 13th tribe was “created” - they are cylons after all, created by humans. This doesn’t make any sense, but I’m guessing we’re still missing part of the picture. > > I also still don’t know how they determined that all the bodies on earth were cylons. I thought the skinjobs were identical to humans. In the 5’s flashbacks, the earth appears to be filled with different looking people of all shapes/sizes/races, etc. And they were having kids on earth (recombining dna), so how was the fleet able to test them, and say they were all cylons? They never explained this. The only way I can explain this is that all the humans are cylons. Or, there are no original skin-job cylons, only humans. Or something… Let me 'splain - no, there is no time, let me sum up… Originally, they were all humans - at some point, a group of humans figured out and perfected “resurection” technology and created what became the 13th tribe - this angered the Lords of Kobol and there was a split - the 13th went one way. We can assume that there was a war, and that what remained of the 13th tribe were all the ones that had been resurected. Now, since its clear that they had the technology not only to achieve ‘resurection’ and space flight, they clearly had the tech to build robots - later Centurians. At some point, the 13th tribe, now on ‘earth’ became able to pro-create, and the resurection tech fell by the wayside… but they were all still children of the “resurected” ones - this is what makes them Cylon. After about 2000 years of pro-creatin’ like a motherfrack, a few of them decided to resurect resurection tech, and its a good thing too, cause they had visions of an apoclypse… they got the job done just in time for the Centurians on earth to nuke’m from orbit… the 5 escaped and headed toward the other 12 colonies. They wanted to warn them to “be nice to the 'bots, or they will surely smite you”. Unfortunately, it took them 2000 years to get to the 12 colonies, and the smite’n was already going on… they bargained with the Centurians (who had already tried growing some skin on their own) that they would give them Human models to work with. They then created the 8, 1 of which turned against them when the Fair haired one loved the 7th model more (he drew her pretty pictures and sang songs, as opposed to #1s constant whining about his eyeballs not being able to watch SuperNova, the current hit tv show for kids). Then the 1 (Cavill) turned his mighty centurian army against the remaining colonies, and proceeded to nuke’m from orbit - he was, after all, sure that he was better than the humans. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/289 "2009-02-20T01:59:54Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Yes, but WHAT WHERE THEY? This is a spacefaring culture, not a bunch of primitives who believe that Zeus is up there tossing lightning bolts. If there were 13 Lords of Kobol ruling the 13 tribes they had to be something. > > -Joe They could’ve simply been human rulers who were deified by latter generations. Or an even older version of Cylons. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/290 "2009-02-20T02:08:57Z")
This whole thread is coming across to me in a British accent. Well, the spoiler parts. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/291 "2009-02-20T02:13:40Z")
Do we know the Lords of Kobol _ruled_ on Kobol, though? We know they’re venerated as gods, now. And that Athena stayed behind after the exodus from Kobol, and suicided in grief. Beyond that it’s all rather sketchy. Since I think they’re the ones who arranged for the visions of the Opera House and the vision in the Temple of the Five, I suspect that they’re what D’Anna was getting in touch with “between life and death”. Whether they turn out to be AIs or posthumans or honest-to-God gods… wouldn’t bet on anything with this show. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/292 "2009-02-20T02:27:46Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > They could’ve simply been human rulers who were deified by latter generations. Or an even older version of Cylons. Which is why the L’s o K were my response to “Where did resurrection technology first show up?” Why would the resurrection technology piss off the people (and I’m guessing Lords) of Kobol so much? Could it be, oh, I don’t know, like Eating the Apple or Stealing Fire? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/293 "2009-02-20T02:31:30Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Whether they turn out to be AIs or posthumans or honest-to-God gods… wouldn’t bet on anything with this show. I’m guessing they were the top of the circle, so to speak. Give the humans what they want (living forever), mix it up with what the Head Bot wants (SuperBotHood) and mix THAT with what everyone wants (be fruitful and multiply, shoot lightning bolts from fingers) and you get the Lords of Kobol. It’s all circular, of course, and time travels around that circle. The high point for sentient life was the Lords of Kobol, and we’ll eventually get there again. Probably the totally frakked (few) remainders of our two Ragtag Fleets. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/294 "2009-02-20T02:33:52Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > They could’ve simply been human rulers who were deified by latter generations. Or an even older version of Cylons. Or by themselves, using some drug that gave them the power of telekinesis. They could perhaps even make a Vulcan sing. See there are plenty of ways you can tie BSG into the ST:TOS universe if you wank hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/295 "2009-02-20T02:53:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or by themselves, using some drug that gave them the power of telekinesis. This is beginning to sound like Roger Zelazney’s _Lord of Light._ ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/296 "2009-02-20T04:02:33Z")
[John](http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/John) was also the name of the Being of Light from Experiment in Terra. Coinidence, or a rare direct reference to TOS? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/297 "2009-02-20T15:07:51Z")
On all the discussion about which character is Daniel, I’m thinking, we’re six episodes out from the end of the story, and they have a lot of questions left to answer. If they’re going to give us an expository infodump, I’m of a mind to say “okay, the 7th skinjob? dead. Guy named Daniel. Next!” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/298 "2009-02-20T16:06:28Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > [John](http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/John) was also the name of the Being of Light from Experiment in Terra. Coinidence, or a rare direct reference to TOS? I doubt it; “John” is simply the most generic possible English name there is. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/299 "2009-02-20T17:41:17Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Let me 'splain - no, there is no time, let me sum up… Well done, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/300 "2009-02-20T17:46:02Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I doubt it; “John” is simply the most generic possible English name there is. Poppycock. It’s obviously an allusion to the giant toilet bowl all rezzable Cylons get born in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=16)