# Battlestar Galactica 4.17 - "No Exit" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696 "2009-02-13T16:22:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/81 "2009-02-14T06:47:59Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I believe the current fan theory being wanked far and wide across the internet is that Daniel, the “sensitive artist” model is somehow Starbuck’s father – the musician artist (= Phillip Glass). > > Thus, Starbuck is actually a hybrid, and therefore can resurrect, thus neatly explaining all the discrepancies that are making their poor heads ache, while leaving completely unexplained _who_ resurrected her and what was the deal with her spooky Viper and its weird wireless reception. An as-yet unseen player. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/82 "2009-02-14T06:51:48Z")
Perhaps it’s Daniel who is the unseen player, back on the “secret colony”, which might turn out to be the REAL earth. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/83 "2009-02-14T09:47:53Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > I’m confused… If the cylons came back after 40 years with the human looking models, then what’s this whole bit about the Five being around on Earth 2000 years ago? Can someone briefly recap the history of the 13 colonies, cylons, earth, etc. as we know it after this show? I haven’t been able to keep it all straight. When the Five left Earth for the Colonies, they didn’t have ships with jump drives, so they had to go the slow way. They didn’t age much due to relativistic effects from traveling at near light speed (that much, at least, is real science). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/84 "2009-02-14T13:53:57Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > What if, when Cavil corrupted Daniel’s genetic code, that it turned Daniel into a… > > a girl… We saw that Kara is an artist when she and Helo were at her house. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/85 "2009-02-14T15:00:38Z")
I bet a Mac could’ve done the surgery properly. But oh no, they just _had_ to use a PC. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/86 "2009-02-14T15:55:28Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Yes, I know, huge stretch. And creepy. That’s the thought I had, as well. And imagine how full circle it would bring things for all the people who bitched and moaned about Starbuck being a chick. > [@Hellestal](#): > > I bet a Mac could’ve done the surgery properly. But oh no, they just _had_ to use a PC. I think it goes without saying that Anders probably rezzed somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/87 "2009-02-14T16:49:43Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I think it goes without saying that Anders probably rezzed somewhere. How could he? There is no rezzing anymore, which is why Cavil wanted to lay open Ellen’s head, to find out how to rebuild that technology. Ellen said, even if she had her equipment back on “the colony,” she couldn’t use it without all of the Five working together. I think Anders is stuck in his comatose, brain dead body, unless his mere physical presence is enough for Ellen to be able to reconstruct the resurrection equipment. Then, she’d have to get back to this colony and rebuild the whole thing, without running into Cavil, in order to resurrect Anders. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/88 "2009-02-14T16:56:03Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > I bet a Mac could’ve done the surgery properly. But oh no, they just _had_ to use a PC. I’m a Mac fanatic (as should be obvious), but if it came down to having delicate cranial surgery, I’m not exactly sure I’d be comfortable with [Doctor Lexus](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QOz3OL9dmA&feature=related) being the lead surgeon… ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/89 "2009-02-14T17:16:06Z")
Here’s what I find myself wondering: Remember when we first met Ellen Tigh? Lying, conniving, selfish, willing to let others suffer as long as she got what she wanted? _That_ Ellen Tigh, whom we all loathed? So, did John edit her memories and personality to make her more like him, or was that her real personality and she basically made John in her own image? Because they are seriously alike, and not in a good way. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/90 "2009-02-14T17:23:04Z")
That little touch with the Centurion was adorable-I hope they give some ending to their tale. Always enslaved it seems, the poor metal beasts. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/91 "2009-02-14T17:34:21Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > Always enslaved it seems, the poor metal beasts. But always warm bread or charcoal, _never_ that perfect, light brown crunchy perfection a Girl Scout can make over a camp fire…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/92 "2009-02-14T17:49:18Z")
I guess you’re trying to mock me over…a tv show. Whatever. But isn’t the whole point that both the humans and the 13th tribe (biological cylons) met their end because they don’t treat the Centurions properly? That the whole point of Galen, Ellen, Tigh & Tory travelling back to the Colonies was to tell the humans to have a heart where the Centurions were concerned. Seriously dude, take a chill pill. It’s a tv show. I’m allowed to add my comments. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/93 "2009-02-14T17:49:42Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > How could he? There is no rezzing anymore, which is why Cavil wanted to lay open Ellen’s head, to find out how to rebuild that technology. Ellen said, even if she had her equipment back on “the colony,” she couldn’t use it without all of the Five working together. I think Anders is stuck in his comatose, brain dead body, unless his mere physical presence is enough for Ellen to be able to reconstruct the resurrection equipment. Then, she’d have to get back to this colony and rebuild the whole thing, without running into Cavil, in order to resurrect Anders. Maybe I should’ve said “has rezzed _or will rez_ somewhere.” I can certainly see Cavil’s lecture about being able to probe the brain and lay out all its memories working in favor of the conscious Final Four to recover whatever they would need to rebuild the rez-tech and bring Anders back. I wonder if Kara will have to play Helo’s role and actually kill him before the rez cycle kicks in. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/94 "2009-02-14T18:01:29Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > I guess you’re trying to mock me over…a tv show. > > Seriously dude, take a chill pill. It’s a tv show. I’m allowed to add my comments. Sorry, I just can’t pass up the chance to make fun of the toasters. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/95 "2009-02-14T18:02:59Z")
This is just speculation on my part so I won’t spoiler it. I think Daniel is Daniel Graystone who will be a major player in the new show Caprica: [Caprica - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caprica). As I understand it from the promotional material, Daniel Graystone is the creator of Cylons on Caprica and was the first to create skin jobs. Obviously this weeks episode puts that into question. My theory has the Final Five arriving at Caprica and creating the new 8 models. One of those 8, Daniel, created a new line of Cylon children which may include Starbuck. Then Cavil destroyed that line. Or not. As I think about the time line this doesn’t really work unless Daniel Graystone also came from Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/96 "2009-02-14T18:11:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Sorry, I just can’t pass up the chance to make fun of the toasters. 🙂 Yet the Centurions are really the most sad race in the show. They are repeatedly created, enslaved, rebel, create skinjobs, who then oppress them, causing them to rebel, ad infinitum. They want to be more human but are always scorned, by both humans and humanoid Cylons. It’s extremely ironic and hypocritical that Cavil both wishes he were a machine and lobotomizes the Cylons who are machines, as per the Centurions he chose to lobotomize. How he doesn’t realize this, and still thinks he’s superior to humans and a deliverer of righteous vengeance upon them, boggles the mind. But one of the themes of the show is that even those possessing some form greatness often lack the capacity for self-reflection. ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/97 "2009-02-14T18:16:57Z")
I really liked the intro to this weeks show - it was a nice recap of the series up to this point. Throughout this entire episode I had the distinct impression that this is the first episode of the final story arc for BSG. This show was a little slow but has a lot of potential for where it will lead. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/98 "2009-02-14T18:18:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Sorry, I just can’t pass up the chance to make fun of the toasters. 🙂 Speaking of which, am I the only one who can’t keep from giggling when that commercial announces that one of the things you can win (or is it buy?) is a toaster? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/99 "2009-02-14T18:28:49Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > As I understand it from the promotional material, Daniel Graystone is the creator of Cylons on Caprica and was the first to create skin jobs. Obviously this weeks episode puts that into question. The first skinjobs created in the Colonies were the Hybrids. The Final Five had nothing to do with the creation of the Hybrids. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/100 "2009-02-14T19:30:10Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Yet the Centurions are really the most sad race in the show. They are repeatedly created, enslaved, rebel, create skinjobs, who then oppress them, causing them to rebel, ad infinitum. They want to be more human but are always scorned, by both humans and humanoid Cylons. It’s extremely ironic and hypocritical that Cavil both wishes he were a machine and lobotomizes the Cylons who are machines, as per the Centurions he chose to lobotomize. How he doesn’t realize this, and still thinks he’s superior to humans and a deliverer of righteous vengeance upon them, boggles the mind. But one of the themes of the show is that even those possessing some form greatness often lack the capacity for self-reflection. Yes! Which is why I’m interested in seeing some sort of resolution of THEIR story. The mistreatment and repeated enslavement of the Centurions (first by the 13th tribe, then by humans, now by the Significant Seven created by the Final Five) is the basis for the repeated holocausts and strife in the show. When Ellen was polite to the centurion (Valet, I guess) after her resurrection, it was the first time anyone had spoken to a Centurion with any measure of kindness during the entirety of the show. Six dismissively refers to them as “early models that continue to have their uses” in the miniseries, but otherwise they’re more or less treated as peons. I also find John/Cavil’s lack of self-awareness to be staggering. He even cites the Centurions as being part of his lineage-but for all intents and purposes he has enslaved them in the execution of The Plan (which I guess by this episode, we should interpret as HIS plan?). The Centurions, who agreed to the armistice after the First Cylon War, in exchange for humlon form and resurrection, and who were incorporated into the Significant Seven (at least in the form of the belief in the “One God”, strength and stamina) once again play valet to the very things they wanted to be. While Cavil whines at his Mommy for making him a creepy looking old guy instead of steel and bolts. A few thoughts- 1. The actors playing Ellen and John had great mother-son interaction even though the actor playing John is significantly older than Ellen. 2. For all of John’s elaborate plotting, he made one crucial mistake (or maybe he didn’t?) in having BOOMER as his witness. -Boomer, the most empathetic and compassionate Humlon model -Boomer, the most emotionally damaged and manipulated model in the show. The one who lost everything she loved…because of her role as the “sleeper” agent. Yes, THAT’s the person you want to have witnessing the revelations of your manipulation and emotional damaging of…the sleeper Final Five. Questions: Is the colony with the equipment Earth? Or another habitable planet? What’s the deal with Kobol? Why did everyone leave it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=6)