# Battlestar Galactica 4.17 - "No Exit" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696 "2009-02-13T16:22:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/141 "2009-02-15T04:05:32Z")
Is anyone else thinking Cavils role in designing the other numbered Cylons explains why the females are all attractive horny women and other males are all asexual? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/142 "2009-02-15T04:28:56Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Is anyone else thinking Cavils role in designing the other numbered Cylons explains why the females are all attractive horny women and other males are all asexual? 😉 No, but if I were in his place, that’s the way I’d do it. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/143 "2009-02-15T04:38:16Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > No, but if I were in his place, that’s the way I’d do it. If you were Ron Moore, that’s the way you’d do it. Anyone else think seeing the Colonial One in Galactica’s bay was kinda cool? I like shots that put things into a size perspective for me. Was it damaged? It doesn’t normally land on Galactica, does it? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/144 "2009-02-15T04:43:16Z")
Saul Tigh had the best line ever. And if you go back far enough we can blame some germ for dividing. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/145 "2009-02-15T05:20:07Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > If you were Ron Moore, that’s the way you’d do it. I were Ron Moore, they’d be taking out Cylons with flamethrowers. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Anyone else think seeing the Colonial One in Galactica’s bay was kinda cool? I like shots that put things into a size perspective for me. Was it damaged? It doesn’t normally land on Galactica, does it? Yes, it is very cool. I thought they just took it aboard to trap the governement. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/146 "2009-02-15T05:20:26Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > If you were Ron Moore, that’s the way you’d do it. > > Anyone else think seeing the Colonial One in Galactica’s bay was kinda cool? I like shots that put things into a size perspective for me. Was it damaged? It doesn’t normally land on Galactica, does it? I believe it was parked there from last week’s episode. I guess they don’t have much reason to launch it back out considering what happened. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/147 "2009-02-15T05:28:19Z")
So what does this episode have in common with the Sarte play besides two women, a guy and a butler in a room with one door? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/148 "2009-02-15T05:56:40Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > So anyway, Anders said when they left earth they didn’t have FTL, but they were pretty close to light speed. That puts the Colonies less than 2000 LY from earth, right? Did they have FTL when they left Kobol? If not, how close is earth to Kobol? If the earth Cylons spent 1000 years there, they must have gotten there pretty quickly. No? Well, we know that the Five stopped several times en route – on the Algae Planet, possibly at Kobol. Add in some time getting up to near-luminal speed several times, and slowing down several times. Maybe not _quite_ 2000 LY, but something close. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Anyone else think seeing the Colonial One in Galactica’s bay was kinda cool? I like shots that put things into a size perspective for me. Was it damaged? It doesn’t normally land on Galactica, does it? It’s been landing on Galactica since the miniseries – it was the transport Roslin used to get there, after all. And we’ve seen it come in for a landing on Galactica in previous seasons, when Roslin visited. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/149 "2009-02-15T06:13:31Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Well, they aren’t exactly biological humans. The 13th tribe including the Final 5 are transhumans, people who downloaded their minds into perpetually reconstructed bodies that had no need for working reproductive organs (for obvious reasons). Thus, human-style procreation would have been a lost technology that would have had to have been rediscovered. Since they retain their memories, I think they would recall sexual reproduction. It tends to stay with you. Is there any reason to think they wouldn’t have working reproductive organs? I’m thinking that they’re machines, and the resurrection technology came first, with sexual reproduction as something they’re working towards. That’s how it works for the 7 skinjobs. Why would the FF be any different? If Anders dies before Ellen restores the resurrection technology, is he gone for good? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/150 "2009-02-15T06:26:16Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > At this point I fully expect the final episode will reveal a perfectly plausible and dramatically appropriate reason for cutting the corners off all the paper. Unbe-frakking-lievable! “You’ll put your eye out!” ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/151 "2009-02-15T06:31:26Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Maybe appropos of nothing, but I wonder something: Do the Colonials know about or believe in evolution? If apes were not to be found on the twelve colonies, and the fossil record of humantiy was somewhere else, would they ever have developed a theory of evolution? Or would it still be an article of faith that humanity had been created supernaturally by the gods? Clearly the Cylons know about it: Cavil’s remarks about the primordeal ooze, and Tigh sarcastically saying you can’t blame everything on the first microbe to split in two. I know Adama has referenced lions and foxes as wildlife. “Life here, began out there.” The 12 Colonies seem to accept that on faith as an historical fact. But that may also have been true on Kobol as well. I don’t think we’ve heard any creation mythos in any kind of depth to know. Suppose (holes-a-plenty in this theory, so let’s just call it a rough outline of a hypothesis): Humans evolved on Earth (as we know it now). They (our descendants) developed slow-boat tech and colonized Kobol. The 13th tribe invents Res-Tech, and for some reason it creates a schism on Kobol, and the 13th tribe says, “Fine! Screw it! We don’t need you meatbags, with your primitive biological procreation. We’ll go back to Earth, where there’s blackjack! And hookers!” and slow-boats there way back home about 1000 years before Kobol’s sun goes all wonky and the other 12 tribes boogie for the Colonies. Having had a bit of a headstart, the 13th tribe (along with original Earthicans, a.k.a. _us_) make the first Cylon Centurions and put them to work doing the menial tasks humans don’t want to do for themselves anymore. The Tin Can MkIs gets tired of taking out the garbage and scrubbing down the insides of nuclear reactors, says, “Bugger all this for a lark,” and starts the “Kill All Meatbags War v1.” They pretty much get it right, and Earth is now a radioactive dump. Some few members of the 13th tribe (Anders, Tight, Ellen, Tyrol, and Tory) have re-invented Res-Tech just in time to miss the Great Earth Kablooey, and slow-boat their way to the Colonies (maybe stopping in at Kobol to see if its sun is still all wonky; the answer is yes, so they continue on to the Colonies). While in transit, as they are nearing their destination, the Colonies invent their own version of Cylons (let’s call them Tin Can MkII), yada-yada, and the “Kill All Meatbags War v2” begins. What we know as the Final Five convince the Tin Cans MkII to stop the war in exchange for help in their evolution and Res-Tech. This is where the Original 8 come into the picture. Cavil (Cain?) is still a little too close to his Chrome Toaster roots and sticks a finger in the works, mucking them up but good. He betrays the Final Five, and in an ironic bit of justice, kills them, reprograms their memories through Res-Tech, and drops them back off in the Colonies as he lays his plans for the “Kill All Humans War v3.” ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/152 "2009-02-15T06:32:47Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > So what does this episode have in common with the Sarte play besides two women, a guy and a butler in a room with one door? I don’t see much similarity, personally. The Sartre play was all about a triangle of sexual tension where each person was attracted to the person who was attracted to the other person and not them. Perhaps, maybe…? um… Cavil likes Boomer but hates Ellen… Ellen likes Cavil, or is trying to reach out to him anyway (not sexually, but with love)…and…Boomer in the end betrays Cavil in favor of Ellen… and thus there is a triangle of alliance? As I said, though, I don’t see much similarity, personally. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/153 "2009-02-15T06:32:57Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > If Anders dies before Ellen restores the resurrection technology, is he gone for good? If there are any rez-ships within range, he might get stored in a buffer until a hub gets rebuilt, but that seems like it would take too long before the end of the series. Plus they need his knowledge. Maybe they can access it in the buffer. I’m guessing his brain monitor starts beeping again after he reboots. Then again, whatever made a new Starbuck is still out there so hmm… ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/154 "2009-02-15T07:45:34Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > “Life here, began out there.” > > The 12 Colonies seem to accept that on faith as an historical fact. But that may also have been true on Kobol as well. I don’t think we’ve heard any creation mythos in any kind of depth to know. > > Suppose (holes-a-plenty in this theory, so let’s just call it a rough outline of a hypothesis): > > Humans evolved on Earth (as we know it now). They (our descendants) developed slow-boat tech and colonized Kobol. The 13th tribe invents Res-Tech, and for some reason it creates a schism on Kobol, and the 13th tribe says, “Fine! Screw it! We don’t need you meatbags, with your primitive biological procreation. We’ll go back to Earth, where there’s blackjack! And hookers!” and slow-boats there way back home about 1000 years before Kobol’s sun goes all wonky and the other 12 tribes boogie for the Colonies. > > Having had a bit of a headstart, the 13th tribe (along with original Earthicans, a.k.a. _us_) make the first Cylon Centurions and put them to work doing the menial tasks humans don’t want to do for themselves anymore. The Tin Can MkIs gets tired of taking out the garbage and scrubbing down the insides of nuclear reactors, says, “Bugger all this for a lark,” and starts the “Kill All Meatbags War v1.” They pretty much get it right, and Earth is now a radioactive dump. > > Some few members of the 13th tribe (Anders, Tight, Ellen, Tyrol, and Tory) have re-invented Res-Tech just in time to miss the Great Earth Kablooey, and slow-boat their way to the Colonies (maybe stopping in at Kobol to see if its sun is still all wonky; the answer is yes, so they continue on to the Colonies). While in transit, as they are nearing their destination, the Colonies invent their own version of Cylons (let’s call them Tin Can MkII), yada-yada, and the “Kill All Meatbags War v2” begins. > > What we know as the Final Five convince the Tin Cans MkII to stop the war in exchange for help in their evolution and Res-Tech. This is where the Original 8 come into the picture. Cavil (Cain?) is still a little too close to his Chrome Toaster roots and sticks a finger in the works, mucking them up but good. He betrays the Final Five, and in an ironic bit of justice, kills them, reprograms their memories through Res-Tech, and drops them back off in the Colonies as he lays his plans for the “Kill All Humans War v3.” This all makes perfect sense. In fact, doesn’t at least some part of the Sacred Scrolls date back to Kobol? You’d think the _very first_ part might! The only thing I’d change to your outline is that I doubt the 13th Tribe made their Centurions with the help of the original Earthicans. Based on the cyclical nature of everything, I suspect that, as transhuman Cylons, the 13th Tribe wiped out the Earthicans, or else found when they arrived that we had _already_ been wiped out by _our own_ Cylon slaves (who left or were also wiped out). Fortunately, the Earth was not left a smoldering, radioactive hulk because our Cylons didn’t use nukes, [they used poisonous gasses](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoi1MSGu64). ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/155 "2009-02-15T09:41:32Z")
possibly my favorite part of the whole ep and in 4 pages not one comment Adama getting drunk before he gives the order to pump his ship full of cylon Magic Jizz ™ very well done, it shows his reluctance and his lack of choice at the same time it gives him at least the semblance of excuse (that he was drunk when he made the call) so he can live with the decision Kara is either a warped form of Daniel or his daughter as already pointed out, if its the later then whats up with Hera? something they will surprise us with no doubt. I also agree about the scene with Ellen and the Centurion, I liked how it even seemed a bit unsure how to give her a hand out of the bath without hurting her with those crazy ass hands they have. (how many joints on each finger?) not sure if this will get explained but Ellen came back at the same age she was when she died…non of the other bots have done that, they all come back in a fresh body…hmmm I guess I might be wrong about that, the other ones dont seem to have long enough life spans to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/156 "2009-02-15T10:02:44Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > not sure if this will get explained but Ellen came back at the same age she was when she died…non of the other bots have done that, they all come back in a fresh body…hmmm I guess I might be wrong about that, the other ones dont seem to have long enough life spans to tell. That’s easy to fanwank. Cavil had the timetable for his master plan worked out before he infiltrated the Final Five into human society. He knew approximately when he was going to kill them again and he wanted them to be the way he remembered them–at the ages they were when he killed them the first time. So, he regressed their ages at the same time he altered their memories. Since they’re the kind of Cylon that procreates, their developmental blueprint is right there in their DNA. Which should be easy to access by a guy who can read memories from a splayed-open brain. Ah, the magic of fanwanking! ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/157 "2009-02-15T11:13:30Z")
Thinking about this info-dump some more: We’ve got a clue that Baltar might be Daniel. And we’ve reason to believe that Starbuck is at least half Cylon. So are the writers twisted enough to have had Starbuck frak her own father? …yeah, I think so. [Quoth Edward James Olmos](http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2008/05/03/in_a_dark_tomorrow/): > [@](#): > > Oh my God, you guys are sick! Delightfully perverted speculation, but it still doesn’t explain that fraking song or Starbuck’s new Viper or the signal from Earth. A seriously enjoyable episode, especially how the act of revealing so many secrets highlights how much we don’t yet know. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/158 "2009-02-15T13:37:12Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Since they retain their memories, I think they would recall sexual reproduction. It tends to stay with you. Is there any reason to think they wouldn’t have working reproductive organs? You’re probably right that as “immortals” they could have memories of sexual reproduction. But keep in mind that as transhumans, every physical body they inhabit is artificially produced. That means its composition and function had to be designed and built, which takes time, effort, and expense. It seems pointless to design fully functional reproductive organs into a body that nobody expects to reproduce itself. Of course, they probably would care enough about sexuality to design a capacity to engage in and enjoy sexual intercourse. I mean, clearly that exists since we’ve seen all of the Final 5 frakking like bunnies. But that’s a fairly straightforward exercise in physical modeling and connecting nerves. Actual sexual reproduction is tricky even in normal biological humans, and we can see that the “skinjobs” had no success with it at all. I don’t see why resurrecting transhumans would have any need or inclination to bother with it. > [@](#): > > I’m thinking that they’re machines, and the resurrection technology came first, with sexual reproduction as something they’re working towards. That’s how it works for the 7 skinjobs. Why would the FF be any different? At this point when it’s raining _deus ex machinae_ it depends entirely on how the story is written. One reason is as good as any other. I’m just trying to wring some continuity from what I think I heard. We do know that the FF designed the skinjobs, so they are a different class of entity, and are likely to be created differently. > [@](#): > > If Anders dies before Ellen restores the resurrection technology, is he gone for good? Probably… I can’t think of anything that would save him. He’s transhuman, he needs somewhere to download his mind. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/159 "2009-02-15T14:08:39Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’m guessing his brain monitor starts beeping again after he reboots. _That’s_ why they have the PC guy! ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/160 "2009-02-15T14:20:29Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Adama getting drunk before he gives the order to pump his ship full of cylon Magic Jizz ™ You, Sir, shall run my Marketing Department once I get that corporation up and running. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=9)