# Battlestar Galactica 4.17 - "No Exit" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696 "2009-02-13T16:22:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/161 "2009-02-15T15:08:50Z")
I’ll hazard a guess: Ellen will arrive in time to help the Final Five (at gunpoint, by Kara, probably) make an improvised engine for retaining Anders’ memories and he will respawn in the rebel basestar with a full complement of memories. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/162 "2009-02-15T15:09:09Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > So are the writers twisted enough to have had Starbuck frak her own father? > > …yeah, I think so. [Quoth Edward James Olmos](http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2008/05/03/in_a_dark_tomorrow/) In that same interview, he said he didn’t know who the Fifth was, so that was before this ep was shot. How likely is it that people would someday just forget to have sex anymore? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/163 "2009-02-15T15:10:38Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > I’ll hazard a guess: > Ellen will arrive in time to help the Final Five (at gunpoint, by Kara, probably) make an improvised engine for retaining Anders’ memories and he will respawn in the rebel basestar with a full complement of memories. Something like that. Remember, he hasn’t flatlined completely. Will the Five join to form the Megazord? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/164 "2009-02-15T15:22:06Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > I’ll hazard a guess: > Ellen will arrive in time to help the Final Five (at gunpoint, by Kara, probably) make an improvised engine for retaining Anders’ memories and he will respawn in the rebel basestar with a full complement of memories. Into what body would he download? It seems like Cavil might have some Final Five bodies laying around, but no rez tech to put the mind in. They might have to strike some sort of deal with him to get an Anders body for him to enter. Or maybe they can regrow his body from scratch? Not sure how that works. If the story goes that route, we will get to see this colony where Ellen’s machines are, which could be the planet where the fleet can come to rest. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/165 "2009-02-15T19:02:53Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Delightfully perverted speculation, but it still doesn’t explain that fraking song or Starbuck’s new Viper or the signal from Earth. A seriously enjoyable episode, especially how the act of revealing so many secrets highlights how much we don’t yet know. Yeah, there has to be a third player. Ellen denied having set up that temple to reveal the final five to D’anna. ---
**Author:** ![Daerlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Daerlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daerlyn)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/166 "2009-02-15T19:09:16Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > You’re probably right that as “immortals” they could have memories of sexual reproduction. But keep in mind that as transhumans, every physical body they inhabit is artificially produced. That means its composition and function had to be designed and built, which takes time, effort, and expense. It seems pointless to design fully functional reproductive organs into a body that nobody expects to reproduce itself. Of course, they probably would care enough about sexuality to design a capacity to engage in and enjoy sexual intercourse. I mean, clearly that exists since we’ve seen all of the Final 5 frakking like bunnies. But that’s a fairly straightforward exercise in physical modeling and connecting nerves. Actual sexual reproduction is tricky even in normal biological humans, and we can see that the “skinjobs” had no success with it at all. I don’t see why resurrecting transhumans would have any need or inclination to bother with it. Given Ellen’s opinions (woken-up Ellen, not nympho-alcoholic-Ellen) on the power of free will and love and so on, it may be that their society made the shift from resurrection to procreation because the former creates a static society. If all you’ve got is the same ten thousand (or whatever) people living over and over again, things get pretty dull. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/167 "2009-02-15T20:26:54Z")
Maybe this was made clear, and maybe it wasn’t. Your standard Meatbag Cylon walking through the hallway there - is he/she a former Centurion who was downloaded into a Meatbag body, or were the Meatbags just created from nothing? If so, it seems like the Cylons are shafting the Centurions far harder than even the humans did. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/168 "2009-02-15T20:33:38Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Maybe this was made clear, and maybe it wasn’t. > > Your standard Meatbag Cylon walking through the hallway there - is he/she a former Centurion who was downloaded into a Meatbag body, or were the Meatbags just created from nothing? If so, it seems like the Cylons are shafting the Centurions far harder than even the humans did. > > -Joe The implication that i recall is that the 8 were created essentially from nothing - likely they cloned 8 captured civilians as the wetware, and perfected the implanting of the program. The Cylons had already created the hybrids, but had not succeeded in creating the autonamous models - the Five helped them finish that project in trade for peace with ‘humanity’. And yes - I agree - what the 8 have done to the ‘metal’ is far worse in principle than anything we know of that the humans had done. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/169 "2009-02-15T21:04:39Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Is anyone else thinking Cavils role in designing the other numbered Cylons explains why the females are all attractive horny women and other males are all asexual? 😉 Leoben had quite a thing for Starbuck. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/170 "2009-02-15T21:49:23Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Maybe this was made clear, and maybe it wasn’t. > > Your standard Meatbag Cylon walking through the hallway there - is he/she a former Centurion who was downloaded into a Meatbag body, or were the Meatbags just created from nothing? Judged on Cavil’s jeremiad about the woes of having to see the beauty of creation as a human instead of a Centurion, and talking about “justice for his Centurion ancestors”, it seems to me that the “meatbags” consist of Centurion consciousness downloaded into the fabricated humanoid body (as opposed to the Final 5 transhumans, who are original human minds transferred perpetually from one artificial body to another). I’m convinced this is the best way to make sense of what we’ve heard in the canon, though I admit I only have the patience to watch this episode once, and I’m hoping for another hardcore fanwanker to sketch out the timeline a little better. I still don’t understand the exact details of where Centurions first came into existence. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/171 "2009-02-15T23:58:52Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Judged on Cavil’s jeremiad about the woes of having to see the beauty of creation as a human instead of a Centurion, and talking about “justice for his Centurion ancestors”, it seems to me that the “meatbags” consist of Centurion consciousness downloaded into the fabricated humanoid body (as opposed to the Final 5 transhumans, who are original human minds transferred perpetually from one artificial body to another). > > I’m convinced this is the best way to make sense of what we’ve heard in the canon, though I admit I only have the patience to watch this episode once, and I’m hoping for another hardcore fanwanker to sketch out the timeline a little better. I still don’t understand the exact details of where Centurions first came into existence. Define “first”. Centurions were created twice, in two separate places completely independently of each other. They were created on Earth about 2000 years (give or take 40-ish years) before they were created on the Colonies. In both cases, they were robotic slaves that decided to rebel against the masters and Kill All Humans. On Earth they were successful (not counting the FF). On the Colonies they were in the process (we don’t know how well the war was going, AFAIK) when the FF showed up and convinced them to quit with the attempted genocide in exchange for the meatbags. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/172 "2009-02-16T00:13:36Z")
The Centurions on the basestars aren’t even the original Centurions – _those_ Centurions were the ones who fought the Cylon War, and whom we saw in “Razor”. The toasters we see on the basestars are newer models. _They_ might have the downloaded consciousness of prior Centurions… but, then, why are there still some of the earlier model Centurions around? However, it is clear that the personalities of the Significant Seven were just as designed as their bodies were. John keeps throwing _that_ back in Ellen’s face throughout his tirades, both in reference to himself, to Boomer, and to Daniel. Also, recall that Moore explained that there were only a limited number of skinjob model Cylons, because the Cylons basically distilled down human nature and said “listen, there’s really only twelve of you” (thirteen, now, apparently). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/173 "2009-02-16T00:22:37Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > The toasters we see on the basestars are newer models. _They_ might have the downloaded consciousness of prior Centurions… but, then, why are there still some of the earlier model Centurions around? I’m remembering vaguely from ‘Razor’ that a faction of Centurions formed some sort of cult around the original Hybrid and split off to protect it. They were all destroyed in ‘Razor’ so there aren’t any 1970’s era Centurions anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Surbey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Surbey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surbey)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/174 "2009-02-16T04:12:45Z")
idk if this is mentioned in any of the other posts but was anyone expected Ellen to simply say a word and have Boomer drop to the floor dead? I was expecting her to have built in some kind of safety net. Some sorta of kill-switch to prevent the models from resurrecting. That would have been bitch ass cool. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/175 "2009-02-16T08:42:24Z")
What if Kara is simply a human who got downloaded and resurrected by whoever is minding the machinery over at Ellen’s lab? Just like the first time the final five did it to themselves? That means she’s now the same type of being as the “final five”. Why would the “final five” feel the need to create a human from scratch instead of just procreating? What was the point of that? Cavil and some of his allies are proof that they didn’t have any special recipe. I bet Baltar got resurrected too. He survived the shock wave of a nuclear blast, remember? Thereafter he started seeing someone who wasn’t there. Maybe the act of being resurrected gives you the “early warning system” of seeing people who aren’t there. Perhaps the Hybrid called Kara the “Harbinger of Death” because she was resurrected. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/176 "2009-02-16T13:06:42Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > What if Kara is simply a human who got downloaded and resurrected by whoever is minding the machinery over at Ellen’s lab? Just like the first time the final five did it to themselves? That means she’s now the same type of being as the “final five”. That’s what I was pondering, but it raises all sorts of weird questions. She “died” on that cloudy planet, then downloaded somewhere, then got sent to Earth and back by means she doesn’t understand? What’s the effective range of the resurrection hubs? And that means the resurrection hub had a copy of Starbuck ready to go the whole time? And what about that brand-new Viper? Does the Resurrector resurrect Colonial ships as well? [Moe]It just don’t make no sense![/moe] ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/177 "2009-02-16T14:50:58Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > What if Kara is simply a human who got downloaded and resurrected by whoever is minding the machinery over at Ellen’s lab? Just like the first time the final five did it to themselves? That means she’s now the same type of being as the “final five”… The Final Five (along with the 13th Tribe) were all Cylons. For Kara to be able to resurrect like them, but be a mere human would imply that _all humans (ie the other 12 tribes) are really Cylons_. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/178 "2009-02-16T14:58:11Z")
I suspect there aren’t any spare bodies corporeally lying around the rez facilities, but only templates stored in the computers somewhere. When a new body is needed, it’s formed from the Magic Snot. So, Anders will come back as a new Anders, presumably without his scars or his tats but, hey, that can be fixed. Boomer is due for a weepy reconciliation scene at some point. Or else a good killin’, one or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/179 "2009-02-16T14:59:56Z")
The major problem with all the “what is Kara, anyway?” theories is that they all assume that whomever is behind her weirdness is following the same rules as everybody else is. But they’re not. They were able to pluck her Viper out of the gas giant after it imploded, and drop it on Earth. They were able to drop her spooky new Viper back in the fleet, with Kara having selective (and fading) memories of Earth. They set up the signal that only the spooky Viper’s wireless could receive and which neither Colonial nor Cylon tech can pick up. So trying to shoehorn Kara into being a Cylon-human crossbreed, or somehow using Cylon resurrection tech, _is not necessary_. Hell, it’s not even _likely_, given how the writers on this show delight in torpedoing predictable fan expectations. Her whole situation makes no sense for the same reason that the Cylon Plan made no sense – everyone is trying to evaluate it using the wrong set of assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696/180 "2009-02-16T15:11:16Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > For Kara to be able to resurrect like them, but be a mere human would imply that _all humans (ie the other 12 tribes) are really Cylons_. :eek: [Kevin DuBrow] Ma-mama, we’re all Cylons now! [/Kevin DuBrow] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-17-no-exit-spoilers/485696.md?page=10)