# Battlestar Galactica 4.18 - "Deadlock" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 20, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664 "2009-02-20T02:42:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/201 "2009-02-24T19:52:37Z")
> [@TJVM](#): > > In her resurrection episode, this problem seemed to be fixed by showing that her “real” self was more rational and capable than what we’d seen before; she was a bigger person. Don’t discount the fact that she was also a prisoner being held by the guy who killed 'em all the first time around. Given that, I would characterize her behavior on the base ship more as submissive-due-to-circumstances. In other words, she was kissing a lot of ass. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/202 "2009-02-24T19:55:28Z")
> [@TJVM](#): > > Ellen, in her pre-resurrection form, does not seem to be remotely capable of masterminding a new cylon race. In her resurrection episode, this problem seemed to be fixed by showing that her “real” self was more rational and capable than what we’d seen before; she was a bigger person. But now “Deadlock” seems to have muddied that, because she’s back to being a destructive, petty boozer. Albert Einstein was one of the smartest men of the twentieth century. His expansions of scientific understanding literally changed the world. He was also [unapologetically unfaithful to his wife and had a sometimes shockingly nasty cruel streak](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/einsteins-theory-of-infidelity-407498.html). ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/203 "2009-02-24T19:57:18Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I don’t think there _are_ “all those” Marines now. The mutiny had a not-insignificant body count; we saw characters maneuvering around many corpses in the corridors. Remove from the ranks everybody who was killed, as well as everybody whose rededication to their oaths was disbelieved by Adama, and you’re looking at a seriously depleted skeleton crew. After the mutiny, Adama’s going to prioritize deployment of Marine guards at critical points: engine room, weapons lockers, CIC, the hangar deck. If there’s anybody left over, they guard communications arrays, damage control, auxiliary fire control. If there’s anybody left over after _that_, they go to the refugee rooms to hand out food. There was a throwaway mention in this episode of the possibility of bringing over some clanking Centurions to help with security. That means critical positions are barely covered by available staff. No wonder the Sons of Ares could operate with impunity. I guess I’m overthinking it. I just figured Galactica wouldn’t have an open port policy where just anyone could enter the ship without ID, and by now someone in the fleet would have compiled some sort of criminal record database, and these guys wouldn’t be able to come on board and start doing their gang thing. But, there probably are enough corrupt military personnel it could happen. Holding people up at gun point is a direct slap in the face to Adama, on his own ship, and it seems he wouldn’t let that go. Personally, if they had enough episodes left to do it, I’d like to see some Centurions come on board and supplement the Marines, if they can’t do their jobs. Never happen, but it could be fun. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/204 "2009-02-24T19:57:21Z")
Ellen was still a boozer after she resurrected in “No Exit”. And she was still just as uncouth – hence her asking Boomer about whether John had taught her the swirl. And she was definitely just as manipulative as always. It may not seem as though she was as destructive in “No Exit” as in “Deadlock” – but the entirety of her scenes with John and Boomer was her working to tear down their worldview in favor of her own. It is just that she had a much more sympathetic goal in “No Exit” (escaping Simon’s headectomy), than her goal in “Deadlock” (wrecking Saul’s relationship with Caprica). Also, Ellen had no jealousy issues to deal with in “No Exit”. She certainly did in “Deadlock”, and that has always been one of her hot buttons. Some of the complaints about inconsistent characterization on Ellen Tigh and Galen Tyrol may be coming because people have been projecting their _own_ ideas of what is going on in the characters’ minds to explain what we’ve seen. We don’t know that Galen had an epiphany about remaining with the fleet, for him to throw over in deciding to bugger off with the other Cylons. And Ellen herself told Bill and Laura that she’s still the same Ellen. They’re both much more nuanced characters than people are willing to accept. (cripes. how many people were working on posts at the same time? sheesh.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/205 "2009-02-24T21:40:13Z")
> [@TJVM](#): > > In her resurrection episode, this problem seemed to be fixed by showing that her “real” self was more rational and capable than what we’d seen before; she was a bigger person. You can’t be a genius and an alcoholic? Discovering that the husband you’ve been away from for eighteen months (?) and just made love to has been screwing and indeed knocked up one of your creations you regarded as a child wouldn’t piss one off? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/206 "2009-02-24T22:02:57Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > Finally I think that this was just one of those episodes that were done to save some production money (no new sets or CGI were used) so that the final few episodes can be spectacular. At least that’s my expectation. My expectation is that they saved money in order to save money. That may also be the reason behind the high casualty rate this season - it saves on payroll expenses. Another reason I don’t expect a glorious _Galactica_dammerung CGI-wankfest scene is that that’s what one would expect in a traditional space opera. The one thing I’ve learned to expect from BSG is not to trust any expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/207 "2009-02-24T22:54:11Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > As already pointed out, the problem with this episode was really in the way it was edited. As the writer of this episode, Jane Espenson, has said in an interview the intent was to essentially show a “family reunion” of the Final Five, and you know how such family reunions invariably turn out. Things start out nice, but eventually degenerate into bickering and squabbles. That was exactly what we saw in the episode. This was definitely not the most engaging episode after some very solid shows. In the preceding shows, as RLM has pointed out, they had a lot of material and had to cut a lot of scenes, but were still able to sustain the continuity in the stories. In “Deadlock” one had the opposite feeling – not enough material and the need to pad some time such as by showing Adm. Adama always checking on the ship’s repair. Finally I think that this was just one of those episodes that were done to save some production money (no new sets or CGI were used) so that the final few episodes can be spectacular. At least that’s my expectation. The fact that they cut out a couple of absolutely vital scenes, but left us with padding is what clinches the case against the editor for me. ---
**Author:** ![TJVM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b38774/32.png) [@TJVM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJVM)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/208 "2009-02-25T03:15:30Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Albert Einstein was one of the smartest men of the twentieth century. His expansions of scientific understanding literally changed the world. He was also [unapologetically unfaithful to his wife and had a sometimes shockingly nasty cruel streak](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/einsteins-theory-of-infidelity-407498.html). From what I can tell, he did all that by working at it diligently for a long time. If you’d been able to observe his daily life, you might or might not approve of his lifestyle, but I think you’d be able to say, “Now there’s a guy who’s working hard to make scientific advances.” With Ellen Tigh, I can’t recall seeing her do anything that suggested she had any ambition beyond getting drunk, screwing around, and pissing people off. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You can’t be a genius and an alcoholic? Sure you can, but being a genius doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to accomplish anything, and if you’re drunk half the time, you’re probably the kind of genius who doesn’t. A character can plausbly have a “double life” including both scientific achievement and debauchery – Baltar is an example of that. But that was never set up with Ellen. To me, it’s a bit jarring to say, hey, this drunken layabout who up until now has shown no interest in science or, more generally, in doing anything constructive, is actually the mastermind behind resurrection technology and a new cylon race. As I said above, I think the “Caprica Ellen was not the normal Ellen” concept could have resolved that, but this most recent episode calls into question whether that’s actually true. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/209 "2009-02-25T04:05:22Z")
> [@TJVM](#): > > Sure you can, but being a genius doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to accomplish anything, and if you’re drunk half the time, you’re probably the kind of genius who doesn’t. She did already; she built another version of Cylons. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/210 "2009-02-25T04:38:11Z")
> [@TJVM](#): > > …A character can plausbly have a “double life” including both scientific achievement and debauchery – Baltar is an example of that… Ellen could have been the same way and Cavil just surpressed the scientific achievement part. We didn’t actually see her to anything sciencey in this episode (nor was she challenged to do so). ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/211 "2009-02-25T06:40:03Z")
I’m not sure where people got the idea, but Ellen isn’t the ‘mastermind behind resurrection’. She has stated in clear terms that she couldn’t even repeat the feat without the other four. All five worked tirelessly for years on recreating res-tech. The only significant achievement ascribed to Ellen is that she came up with the final breakthrough that made all their hard work pay off. For all we know that’s her only contribution. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/212 "2009-02-25T08:00:14Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > The fact that they cut out a couple of absolutely vital scenes, but left us with padding is what clinches the case against the editor for me. Are you referring to specific scenes that someone in the show mentioned having been cut, or is that just a general statement of dislike for a lack of the episode addressing certain things? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/213 "2009-02-25T13:06:59Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Are you referring to specific scenes that someone in the show mentioned having been cut, or is that just a general statement of dislike for a lack of the episode addressing certain things? [This interview](http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-deadlock-jane-espenson.html) with writer Jane Espenson mentions several bits that were left out due to time constraints. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/214 "2009-02-25T16:54:33Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > [This interview](http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-deadlock-jane-espenson.html) with writer Jane Espenson mentions several bits that were left out due to time constraints. Thanks for that. For other’s benefit here’s the relevant portion: > [@](#): > > Oh, there was a whole little runner about the possibility of bringing Centurions over to help keep order among the civilians. It was a very cool idea, but there was ultimately no room for it. And there was a big debate about whether Laura/Lee/Adama would allow the Final Five to reunite, with or without witnesses. And there was a really fun exchange between Tigh and Ellen about her poisoning in which she pretended to be furious about it. Tigh: I thought you know it was poison! You asked for the cup! Ellen: I was thirsty ! I don’t think the last two scenes were necessary, although addressing Tigh’s poisoning of Ellen would have made a nice character moment if done well. But yeah, the whole Baltar storyline would have made much more sense with the scenes about the centurions. One commenter saw this longer version and said: > [@](#): > > I had the priviledge this evening of watching a slightly longer rough cut at a frak party I attended tonight. And there was something really, really key that they had to cut for time (the rough was 11 minutes longer): there are not enough Marines left alive on the Galactica now to handle all required police & civilian duties. > > At the beginning of the rough cut version, the Marines give up on the food distribution, sensing a riot. They abandon the food rations…immediately after they leave, the Sons of Aries show up, guns in hand, and take what is left. Also before the credit roll, Adama/Roslin/Lee are arguing about introducing Centurions into the Galactica to pick up the slack in security issues and policing the civvies on the ship. Adama refuses to allow it. At the end of the episode, Baltar’s plea to Adama is longer – he clearly wants his little cult-turned-militia to pick up guns in service of civilian policing and food redistribution. Use his cult, instead of Centurions. She addressed some of the other questions people had with this episode - the reason for the baby dying is supposed to be ambiguous, and the chief “took his job back because Adama asked him to. But he is increasingly distanced from his old life.” It didn’t occur to me earlier, but now I’m thinking it had something to do with the return of Ellen (completing the final five) and especially of Boomer (harking back to his suicidal angst over loving a cylon and thinking he might be one). Which makes an earlier episode more interesting - Cavil is the one that talked sense into the suicidal chief. He even said, ironically, he knew he wasn’t a cylon because he was one and hadn’t seen the chief at any of his ‘cylon meetings’. So I’m wondering, was this one of the run of the mill Cavils in the dark about the five, or was this John, who knew about the five all along? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/215 "2009-02-25T17:04:11Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > [This interview](http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-deadlock-jane-espenson.html) with writer Jane Espenson mentions several bits that were left out due to time constraints. The directors’ cut DVD’s would be nice to have someday. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/216 "2009-02-25T17:59:48Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Which makes an earlier episode more interesting - Cavil is the one that talked sense into the suicidal chief. He even said, ironically, he knew he wasn’t a cylon because he was one and hadn’t seen the chief at any of his ‘cylon meetings’. So I’m wondering, was this one of the run of the mill Cavils in the dark about the five, or was this John, who knew about the five all along? Although it seems as though all the Cavils share their memories to such an extent that they are _all_ the same guy… that particular Cavil was the one who was surprised by another version of himself being brought back from Caprica. Even though, for example, the John Cavil who was holding Ellen captive could not have been the Cavil on the basestar with Caprica, D’Anna, and Baltar (Ellen is captive while Baltar is on the basestar). Yet Ellen’s John Cavil speaks of events witnessed by the basestar Cavil with some familiarity. ---
**Author:** ![melodyharmonius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/melodyharmonius/32/21310_2.png) [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/217 "2009-02-25T18:14:01Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Although it seems as though all the Cavils share their memories to such an extent that they are _all_ the same guy… that particular Cavil was the one who was surprised by another version of himself being brought back from Caprica. I didn’t interpret him as “surprised” as much as realizing the gig was up. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/218 "2009-02-25T18:42:20Z")
Two issues: (1) The “majority rules” vote for the final 5 was just nonsensical. Also, there was a bit of **Lost** disease there in which no one shows sufficient curiosity… the final 5 (and, for that matter, everyone else) suddenly have access to someone with 2000 years of very precise memories about the origins of everything, and no one bothers to ask? (2) Since when do the humans know that Caprica-Six’s name is “Caprica”? And do they know why? And how do they know that without knowing about Baltar’s role in the destruction of humanity? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/219 "2009-02-25T19:10:08Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Although it seems as though all the Cavils share their memories to such an extent that they are _all_ the same guy… that particular Cavil was the one who was surprised by another version of himself being brought back from Caprica. > > Even though, for example, the John Cavil who was holding Ellen captive could not have been the Cavil on the basestar with Caprica, D’Anna, and Baltar (Ellen is captive while Baltar is on the basestar). Yet Ellen’s John Cavil speaks of events witnessed by the basestar Cavil with some familiarity. I always thought that they wouldn’t be able to exchange memories unless they were together on a Cylon basestar. Each individual Cavil might have been aware of the deployment of other Cavils, but wouldn’t have simultaneous awareness of what all the others were doing or whether they had been caught. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/220 "2009-02-25T19:11:26Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (2) Since when do the humans know that Caprica-Six’s name is “Caprica”? And do they know why? And how do they know that without knowing about Baltar’s role in the destruction of humanity? They might be told that she was important to the attack on the colonies without knowing exactly what she did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664.md?page=12)