# Battlestar Galactica 4.18 - "Deadlock" (spoilers)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [February 20, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664 "2009-02-20T02:42:45Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/61 "2009-02-21T16:06:40Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#):
>
> Oh yeah. Definitely she was just using it to torment Saul and drive a wedge between him and Caprica. I don’t think Ellen really cared what happened to anybody in this episode or whether the rest of the Cylons stayed with the fleet. She was just out to reassert her relationship with, and control over, Saul. And I don’t believe for a second she didn’t realize she may have been jeopardizing the baby by putting the mother in distress.
Ellen can talk smack about Cavil all she wants, but the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/62 "2009-02-21T16:16:51Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Whoever trained the actors in Baltar’s harem how to handle firearms needs fired. Now. That scene, short as it was, had me very uncomfortable. I fully expected and kept listening for the accidental discharge that killed somebody.
Um, they’re a bunch of hippies. Why should they know how to handle guns properly?
> [@Daerlyn](#):
>
> There’s been a big stink though, since the first season, about how the skinjobs are physically incapable of reproducing without love. It’s why they sent Athena after Helo in the first place, to see if she could make him love her, and if that would make it possible for her to get pregnant.
I think it’s just that the assembly line skinjobs can’t reproduce with each other. The only reason Helo needed to “fall in love” with Athena was just so he would bang her. It’s not unreasonable to think that if they were just two coworkers stuck on the planet together, Helo might have other things on his mind besides having sex out of boredom.
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### Author:  [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/63 "2009-02-21T16:24:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> I disagree. Most people probably are not aware of gun safety issues the way I am…particularly in the target demographic for this show. Why do something that a majority of the audience isn’t going to notice?
do the other people, like the marines etc, on the show who is supposed to know about gun safety display the same mistakes?
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### Author:  [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/64 "2009-02-21T16:51:22Z")
I got the feeling that the writers are trying to tie up plotlines and… didn’t really know where they were going with Baltar’s harem. Baltar, they know his storyline, and part of it involves being a religious figure. But the women following him, they _want_ to write them as more than set-dressing, but not so much working for them.
Also, maybe a _mention_ of Helo and Athena, eh?
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> A well-done bit of acting from Kate Vernon there. Also a nice touch showing the photos of dead Cylons on the Bulletin Board of Honor.
I couldn’t wrap my head around _why_ Cylons would be taking headshots of each other? Wow, lucky they do, though, or they’d’ve had no pictures (with the corners cut off) to post on the bulletin board, and that scene would have bombed.
Also lucky that the gangs of humans roaming around beating up pregnant Cylons don’t hate Cylons enough to go rip down the Cylon headshots stuck up in the middle of their memorial to _humans_ who’ve been _killed by the same Cylons_.
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Okay, that has to be it, **davidw**. The fleet did jump away from Earth in the webisodes, after a false alarm from the DRADIS, but jumped back. They’re still there, apparently, for old times’ sake, and will be until Battlestar _Rolling Stone_ finishes gathering its moss.
No. They jumped away in “Sometimes a Great Notion”. By the webisodes, they were already out in space, somewhere, which is where they jumped away from and then jumped back to.
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### Author:  [@Daerlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daerlyn)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/65 "2009-02-21T17:02:18Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> I think it’s just that the assembly line skinjobs can’t reproduce with each other. The only reason Helo needed to “fall in love” with Athena was just so he would bang her. It’s not unreasonable to think that if they were just two coworkers stuck on the planet together, Helo might have other things on his mind besides having sex out of boredom.
Oh, definitely. I’m not saying it’s not a gigantic red herring (hence my “not _yet_ disproven” caveat from above), but it’s definitely a belief that feeds into Ellen’s insecurities about always coming second for Saul.
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### Author:  [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/66 "2009-02-21T17:05:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> I’m still confused about the timeline, though - Saul killed Ellen, what, 18 months ago. Was she simply in the pattern buffer after that until John realized he needed her to re-resurrect resurrection, or did she simply do bad play scenes with him all that time? We can pinpoint her own decanting as being after the nuking of the Hub. But either John took all that time to figure out what he could do, or she and Boomer were gallivanting through the universe in that Raptor for a year and a half. The Raptor had been lost “over a year ago”, fwiw.
Last week’s episode made it explicit that Ellen rezzed 18 months ago, right after she was killed, as per usual. All the scenes of Ellen with the Cylons were flashbacks scattered from then to present. They all had “18 months ago,” “12 months ago,” “earler this week,” “just before you went to pee before the show”-type captions.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/67 "2009-02-21T17:07:02Z")
> [@Lightray](#):
>
> I couldn’t wrap my head around _why_ Cylons would be taking headshots of each other?
They really only need 1 shot of each model. 😃
> [@](#):
>
> Also lucky that the gangs of humans roaming around beating up pregnant Cylons don’t hate Cylons enough to go rip down the Cylon headshots stuck up in the middle of their memorial to _humans_ who’ve been _killed by the same Cylons_.
The bulletin board seems to be in a military-only (and maybe pilots-only) area, away from the civvie gangs. First from following orders, then from sharing experiences and dangers, the Colonial military has integrated before the rest of society - just the way the US military desegregated faster, too.
> [@](#):
>
> They jumped away in “Sometimes a Great Notion”. By the webisodes, they were already out in space, somewhere, which is where they jumped away from and then jumped back to.
Then we’re back to wondering how Boomer and Ellen found the fleet. (Just think, two women in a vehicle, lost, not even a map … “Shouldn’t we stop at a tillium station and ask for directions?”)
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/68 "2009-02-21T17:10:43Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#):
>
> Last week’s episode made it explicit that Ellen rezzed 18 months ago, right after she was killed, as per usual.
Okay, I lost track. Then somehow she kept hidden from the rest of the Cavil fleet for all that time, while the idea of opening her skull never occurred to him.
Further, if he really was killed in the Great Cylon Schism operation, then Ellen’s escape was before that, and she and Boomer have been wandering around space ever since.
So I still don’t see the timeline.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/69 "2009-02-21T17:13:17Z")
> [@shijinn](#):
>
> do the other people, like the marines etc, on the show who is supposed to know about gun safety display the same mistakes?
When they were distributing the weapons, a marine pushed the barrel being held by one of the women away from him and down.
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### Author:  [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/70 "2009-02-21T17:36:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Okay, I lost track. Then somehow she kept hidden from the rest of the Cavil fleet for all that time, while the idea of opening her skull never occurred to him.
>
> Further, if he really was killed in the Great Cylon Schism operation, then Ellen’s escape was before that, and she and Boomer have been wandering around space ever since.
>
> So I still don’t see the timeline.
18 months ago, Ellen died on New Caprica, and was resurrected and imprisoned by John Cavil. In that time, Baltar was on the baseship with D’Anna and Caprica, and (a) Cavil.
Some time later, the Final Five were activated, and the Cylons schismed over lobotimizing the Raiders – Boomer sided with Cavil, leading to Caprica’s group removing the inhibitors on the Centurions, leading to the death of (a) Cavil, and to civil war among the Cylons.
This would be going on the first time that John Cavil introduces Ellen to Boomer.
The rebel Cylons get their asses handed to them by the Cavilcade, and are forced to hook up with the ragtag fleet (by sending Leoben to the Demetrius). John Cavil is showing Ellen and Boomer slideshows at this time.
The rebel Cylons and ragtag fleet blow up the Resurrection Hub – killing resurrection. D’Anna also kills (a) Cavil at this time.
While the rebel Cylons are having a standoff with Lee Adama over the Final Five (less one), John Cavil is telling Ellen about the death of resurrection and trying to get her to fix things. When she says “can’t”, he hears “won’t”, and tells her that she _will_ one way or another.
While the ragtag fleet is off discovering Earth, and blowing their brains out, and having mutinies, is the same time that Cavil has Simon ready to operate on Ellen’s brain – and the same time that Boomer escapes with Ellen.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/71 "2009-02-21T17:51:21Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#):
>
> It bugged me that Tyrol wanted to leave the fleet. I just can’t see him doing that. I was sure he was going to want to stay. It was pure plot contrivance to have him say otherwise, so the vote would be split with Ellen as deciding vote. What, was going to leave in the middle of fixing Galactica? I can’t imagine that he would.
I agree. It makes Tyrol look like a two-faced little weasel, which I think is inconsistent with the way the character has been portrayed over the course of the show. He shook Adama’s hand and agreed to fix the ship…then all of a sudden, he’s like “Frak the humans, let’s haul ass”. Maybe he is embracing his cylonicity…bt other than him trying to broker the alliance before the mutiny, we haven’t really seen him do it on screen.
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### Author:  [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/72 "2009-02-21T17:56:39Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> The only reason Helo needed to “fall in love” with Athena was just so he would bang her. It’s not unreasonable to think that if they were just two coworkers stuck on the planet together, Helo might have other things on his mind besides having sex out of boredom.
But remember, he thought Athena was Boomer and that she “came back” for him. That’s a whole lot different than 2 co-workers being stuck together. This is someone making an effort to rescue you, showing they care more than just a little - enough to risk their lives. And then what was a pretense became an actual life choice - when Athena actually did choose to save Helo over following the initial directive. It _is_ about the love, and not just the banging.
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> They really only need 1 shot of each model. 😃
Ok, that’s like saying twins don’t both need school pictures . . . We’ve been shown time and again that the skin jobs have been taking steps to assert their own individuality. Remember the 6 with the long brown hair? The 8 with bangs vs. the 8 with her hair parted on the side? And how about when Tyrol walked around the 8 that brought Ellen to Galactica, and after looking in her eyes announced, “This is Boomer.” That’s the point. They are not as alike as they once were.
Take it from someone with twin brothers. 😃
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> The bulletin board seems to be in a military-only (and maybe pilots-only) area, away from the civvie gangs. First from following orders, then from sharing experiences and dangers, the Colonial military has integrated before the rest of society - just the way the US military desegregated faster, too.
Interesting point! I agree.
Also, about Baltar and the harem:
for me, the interesting part of this segment was Gaius’ head 6 suggesting the “bigger guns” in the first place. Why? Why would she want that? So that the humans would wipe each other out? I think that was the plot point that stuck out to me more than whether they were handling the guns correctly.
Okay, and can someone remind me the line that Hot Dog used when Ellen first landed? I only remembered that was hilarious - and obviously the bone thrown to EJO for his son -but still - if you are only going to get one line in an ep - that was a good one.
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### Author:  [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/73 "2009-02-21T18:00:57Z")
Oh - and I agree - I was suprised about Tyrol agreeing to go. That surprised me. He’s always known for working harder. Remember when he designed the new fighter on his own time? That was just out of character.
And what was with Ellen and the face touching of Tory and Tyrol? These are not her children, these are her fellow co-workers. That was weird - I kept waiting for it to make sense.
And I kept waiting for it to be significant that a 6 was painting on the cylon goo. After Bill had said last week, “only human crews.” I waited to find out that one of the 6’s was sabotaging or something - especially when Bill was touching a piece that still was not fixed yet.
And I just have to say this every time Tory is on screen: bitch, bitch, bitch. That’s all she is and all she does. And once more for the record: bitch.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/74 "2009-02-21T18:01:50Z")
> [@melodyharmonius](#):
>
> Okay, and can someone remind me the line that Hot Dog used when Ellen first landed? I only remembered that was hilarious - and obviously the bone thrown to EJO for his son -but still - if you are only going to get one line in an ep - that was a good one.
I don’t remember exactly, but I think it was something like “How many dead chicks are out there, anyway?”
Also, while we’re handing out kudos for great acting, I think Tricia Helfer deserves some. All of the versions of her model have distinctly different personalities, and she really does a great job of showing that…body language, mannerisms, even the way they talk.
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### Author:  [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/75 "2009-02-21T18:05:27Z")
I liked the episode well enough, though it is the weakest of the last bunch so far.
I like seeing the Baltar cult actually do something for once. Giving him a threat within the group was a good idea, and they should’ve done it earlier. Baltar’s at his best when there’s a threat to him.
Giving them guns was a remarkably bad idea by the admiral, but I think it’s example the Adama’s weariness.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/76 "2009-02-21T18:09:36Z")
Yeah, arming the hippie chicks seems like an odd decision. As a military guy, I’d expect Adama to order at least a basic level of instruction. Maybe show the gals getting some trigger time on a range under marine instruction. I figure a Battlestar is big enough to have some type of firing range. Even a hangar bay with the gals shooting blanks or dry firing would be better than nothing.
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### Author:  [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/77 "2009-02-21T18:12:01Z")
I was thrown off by Tyrol agreeing to leave, also. He’s been shown to be conflicted, but I got the sense it was more he was trying to convince himself he was a Cylon even though his devotions were to the fleet. I can’t see him deciding so definitively.
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### Author:  [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/78 "2009-02-21T18:18:20Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> I agree. It makes Tyrol look like a two-faced little weasel, which I think is inconsistent with the way the character has been portrayed over the course of the show. He shook Adama’s hand and agreed to fix the ship…then all of a sudden, he’s like “Frak the humans, let’s haul ass”. Maybe he is embracing his cylonicity…bt other than him trying to broker the alliance before the mutiny, we haven’t really seen him do it on screen.
Ah, I see you’ve forgotten Tyrol’s stint as Spokesman for the Fleet’s Laborers – from that episode about the tylium ship going on strike.
That’s okay, though, the writers have forgotten about that, too. As has Galen, apparently.
I think when he accepted Adama’s job offer last episode, he looked more bemused than anything. He’s just trying to keep himself busy, find something to give his life meaning. Nicky isn’t an anchor for him to the fleet, anymore. And he’s clearly fascinated by Cylon technology (possibly, because he originally developed it). He has developed close ties to the rebel baseship – as seen during the mutiny, when he arranged for Roslin to escape there.
He’s been operating on his whims, ever since he found out he was a Cylon, and even more since he found out Nicky wasn’t his son. Refit the fleet’s jump drives? okay, not too busy anyway. Help against the mutiny? sure, why not. Fix up rickety old Galactica? okay, sure. Jump away from humanity with his new Cylon buddies? hey, whatever, man.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/79 "2009-02-21T18:33:56Z")
**lightray** , thanks, but that still leaves Ellen (and Boomer?) being held prisoner on John’s ship for a pretty long time.
I didn’t think it was clear he was actually killed in the attack, nor, gathering from these threads, did many other posters. But, the fewer eps we have left, the more likely it is that you’re right - there almost isn’t time to make that threat to the humans plausibly disappear unless it already has. We’d also have to believe that no other Cylon, either in his surviving force (if it exists) or in the Colonies, cares about tracking down the humans anyway, but that may also be so.
Now, what to do about Boomer? She has to have re-entered the story for a reason beyond simply flying Ellen; she’s too key a character. Are we looking at a sappy apology/reconciliation scene coming up, or will she redeem herself by her death with some glorious kamikaze mission?
I’m still waiting for the Beings of Light to show up … perhaps in an ep titled “Someone To Watch Over Me”, perhaps?
Tyrol’s decision didn’t surprise me, btw - he bought into the majority-rule principle as part of learning to be a Cylon.
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### Author:  [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/80 "2009-02-21T18:54:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Tyrol’s decision didn’t surprise me, btw - he bought into the majority-rule principle as part of learning to be a Cylon.
If he had voted to stay, the majority rule would have been for them to stay, and Ellen’s vote would have been moot.
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