# Battlestar Galactica 4.18 - "Deadlock" (spoilers)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [February 20, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664 "2009-02-20T02:42:45Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/81 "2009-02-21T19:01:35Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> I disagree. Most people probably are not aware of gun safety issues the way I am…particularly in the target demographic for this show. Why do something that a majority of the audience isn’t going to notice?
And yet, person after person did notice. (And not EVERYONE has to notice something for it to be effective and clever.) It’s been pointed out that there were many obviously egregious, on-purpose examples of incompetence with guns on display - you don’t think James Callis dropped that magazine by accident, do you? It was wholly, 100% deliberate.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/82 "2009-02-21T19:15:36Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#):
>
> If he had voted to stay, the majority rule would have been for them to stay, and Ellen’s vote would have been moot.
If only the Five had voted, that is. But the skinjobs had votes too (1 per model, apparently). The Sixes and Eights voted to go.
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### Author:  [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/83 "2009-02-21T19:16:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> I didn’t think it was clear he was actually killed in the attack, nor, gathering from these threads, did many other posters. But, the fewer eps we have left, the more likely it is that you’re right - there almost isn’t time to make that threat to the humans plausibly disappear unless it already has. We’d also have to believe that no other Cylon, either in his surviving force (if it exists) or in the Colonies, cares about tracking down the humans anyway, but that may also be so.
Cavil wasn’t killed in the _attack_ on the Resurrection Hub – he was killed by D’Anna, personally.
However, that may or may not have been the John Cavil who had Ellen prisoner – don’t know if there was enough time for that Cavil to rez between his being killed and the just-right-after kablooeying of the Hub.
Even so, it appears that the #1s set much less store on individuality than the other models, and apparently upload each other’s memories all the time – the one holding Ellen captive knew everything his model on New Caprica had known, for example, yet unlikely that those were the same model (since the New Caprica Cavil went off from New Caprica with the baseship that eventually went rebel, while Ellen was resurrecting with a (probably) different John Cavil).
Basically, if all the #1s share the same set of memories, they’re _all_ the same Cavil.
I think the reimaged “Beings of Light” are what everyone is calling the “head angels” – possibly, whatever D’Anna contacted that is “between life and death”, too. I just can’t figure out of Baltar’s Head-Six is a re-imaged Count Iblis, or not.
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> If only the Five had voted, that is. But the skinjobs had votes too (1 per model, apparently). The Sixes and Eights voted to go.
Nope. The Six and the Eight specifically said it was something the Final Five had to decide by themselves.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/84 "2009-02-21T20:25:04Z")
> [@Lightray](#):
>
> Basically, if all the #1s share the same set of memories, they’re _all_ the same Cavil.
Nope, they’re all Spartacus. 😃
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/85 "2009-02-21T20:29:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Baltar’s fumbling wasn’t the part that really bothered me…it was the other things…like the fingers on triggers and pointing at each other and such. My reaction was very much… **JESUS CHRIST DON’T FRAKKIN DO THAT!** (Yes, screamed with fear and anger).
>
> But it could be that people are more gun safety aware than I assume.
Yes, and contrary to the beliefs of a lot of the SDMB, not everyone in the world masturbates to issues of “Guns & Ammo” and “Jane’s Fighting Ships”.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/86 "2009-02-21T20:30:38Z")
The episode was muddled. Some good moments and a bit of humor, but it didn’t add up to a coherent whole.
I found Tyrol’s vote unbelievable. Ellen’s sudden bitchiness after her more reasonable tone in the last episode was jarring. Adama’s constant staring at the repairs was tedious. I’m willing to be patient and see why he agreed to give guns to the Baltar cult, but I’m very dubious.
I was disappointed that Tigh and Caprica’s pregnancy ended so anti-climactically. What’s more, the implication that the pregnancy was affected by Tigh’s changing emotions rang hollow. I don’t have any problem with the Cylon belief that pregnancy isn’t possible without love, but they seemed to suggest that any wavering in that love is fatal. Bah.
Still, Tigh is excellent, a pleasure to watch. And the various Sixes are a tribute to Helfer’s acting.
Can someone explain the discrepancy in Cylon numbering? I’m not clear what the problem was that required introducing the dead Daniel to the picture.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/87 "2009-02-21T20:53:16Z")
Before the Daniel revelation, there wree 7 known skinjobs: Numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8.
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### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/88 "2009-02-21T20:56:30Z")
> [@Clark\_K](#):
>
> I found Tyrol’s vote unbelievable. Ellen’s sudden bitchiness after her more reasonable tone in the last episode was jarring.
Agreed on both points. Ellen, in particular, just pissed me off. Not the character so much as the actress playing her. Come on, a decent actress has to make me believe that the character shifts are possible, even likely, not make me wonder if we’re smack in \*Sybil _territory here. Jane Espenson_, bless her heart, was clearly writing Old Ellen, which was fine and all, except I still had the taste of Saint Ellen in my mouth. Shoulda found some way to make her the SAME Ellen, not Jekyll and Hyde it, thank you. If Charisma Carpenter can manage it, this chick should be able to. She’s perfectly good in both her roles, they just need to be made one role.
And Tyrol jumping ship? Never. Ain’t gonna happen. Jane, you should have had him hit over the head or drink Stupid Juice to make that one believable.
\*How can we tell this is an Espenson ep, boys and girls? Because there’s food in it, of course!
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/89 "2009-02-21T20:56:40Z")
> [@Clark\_K](#):
>
> Can someone explain the discrepancy in Cylon numbering? I’m not clear what the problem was that required introducing the dead Daniel to the picture.
There was no number 7. We had a 6 and an 8, and we were originally told that there were 12 Cylon models. Apparently the final five do not have numbers.
Now I’m wondering, if sexual reproduction was a goal, why there are more males than females…
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/90 "2009-02-21T20:59:58Z")
Not even the skinjobs are known to have wondered why there was a gap in the sequence - they were astonished to find there had ever been an 8th model.
It all stems from Moore and Eick calling Boomer a “Number Eight” early on, before they had planned for the existence of unrevealed models. The Daniel story is likely no more than a coverup.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/91 "2009-02-21T21:33:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> …I think it’s just that the assembly line skinjobs can’t reproduce with each other. The only reason Helo needed to “fall in love” with Athena was just so he would bang her…
Remember **The Farm**? The Cylons were either harvesting human eggs to combine with Cylon sperm and either use the comatose women or female Cylons as surrogates. Didn’t work. RDM also said that presumably there were similiar facilities where semen was being forcibly harvested from male prisoners :eek:. So apparently artifical reproduction doesn’t work the Cylons. The Cylons also probally tried forcing natural reproduction (ie male Cylons repeatedly raping female prisoners to try and get them pregnant) and that failed two.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/92 "2009-02-21T21:42:45Z")
> [@WhyNot](#):
>
> Not the character so much as the actress playing her. Come on, a decent actress has to make me believe that the character shifts are possible, even likely, not make me wonder if we’re smack in \*Sybil _territory here. Jane Espenson_, bless her heart, was clearly writing Old Ellen, which was fine and all, except I still had the taste of Saint Ellen in my mouth.
I always felt that she was being self centered and manipulative. I was just rooting for her instead of Cavil and Tighe instead of her.
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/93 "2009-02-21T22:12:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> I have a sinking feeling we’re not going to find out how Boomer found the fleet. Nobody even asked her. Time for some hard fanwanking - there’s a new continuity problem to replace the model numbering one.
How about Cavill knows where they are and he just doesn’t want to get into a shooting war in which he might actually die? Silly, I know.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/94 "2009-02-21T22:54:24Z")
Only a handful of episodes left, and they waste an hour on this drivel? Ok, Ellens’ jealous of Caprica Six’s pregnancy. We Get It. Adama is striken and unsure about using Cylon tech to repair his ship, and drinking way too much. We Get It. Baltar is half-conniving, half-sincere about his cult. We Get It. It could have been told in half the time.
About the only thing I can see that this episode accomplished is that we’re back to Hera being the Hope of the Future.
P.S. Maybe Adama doesn’t trust his own Marines enough anymore to maintain order.
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### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/95 "2009-02-21T23:06:56Z")
There are 12 models -
still works -
8 SkinJobs
1 Hybrid
1 Base Star
1 Centurian
1 Raider
ETA - part of the point of arming the civilians/Baltar was brought out when Baltar was promising food - early in the episode, they showed, quite clearly, that the armed marines were incapable of keeping order, and that the people were feeling “repressed” - when Baltar brought them food, things went pretty darn smooth, up until the bullies showed up. Now that the bullies are outmatched by other civies, they may think twice.
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/96 "2009-02-21T23:07:51Z")
Hopefully they’ll have a brief flashback showing Boomer & Ellen spending some time finding earth & the fleet. I’ll be disappointed that an un-upgraded Raptor could make it in one jump, even if they did know where they were going.
Where’s Helo & Athena? They really should have been involved in the “leave the fleet” discussion.
I can kind of understand Ellen reverting to bitch-mode. She’s got her original memories back, but that means she’s got two entire lifetimes sloshing around in her head, and her most recent memories are of slutty drunk manipulator Ellen.
Baby had to die. Tigh himself said humans & Cylons have to be together because they’re too weak separately, and they’ll be stuck in the “all this will happen again” loop. The baby-needs-love thing is a bit silly, but it’s there, and has been since season one. I’d have preferred someone sabotage the pregnancy, but that might have been too much for the show.
Someone upthread wondered why they aren’t growing food in every available space, but they did show us the Botanical Cruiser again, and it looks pretty full of greenery. It’s strange they still have food shortages. Maybe it’s more of a distribution problem? Speaking of food…
What’s up with those “Sons of Whoever?” There’s an armed gang operating on Galactica? Hard to imagine Adama & Tigh letting that go. Elsewhere in the fleet sure, but on Galactica? All those Marines standing around have something better to do than police Galactica? The solution is to arm everyone? That always works well on this show.
How do the Cylons think with only twelve models they’re going to go off and rebuild a new culture? They’re already having reproductive problems, surely they don’t think what kids they could produce would provide sufficient genetic diversity.
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/97 "2009-02-21T23:57:26Z")
> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> What’s up with those “Sons of Whoever?” There’s an armed gang operating on Galactica? Hard to imagine Adama & Tigh letting that go. Elsewhere in the fleet sure, but on Galactica? All those Marines standing around have something better to do than police Galactica? The solution is to arm everyone? That always works well on this show.
I know we’ve all tried to forget that episode, but isn’t that the black market group from the episode of the same name? In that case, they haven’t gotten rid of them because they can’t. Notice that those guys weren’t trying to grab food from the distribution centers run by the marines.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/98 "2009-02-22T00:31:12Z")
It occurs to me that Sam is probably going to come back from his no-brain-activity coma, having encountered whatever it is that D’Anna was contacting in between life and death.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/99 "2009-02-22T00:53:51Z")
Sam’s EEG already jumped back into life, late in the episode - and without a snotwash.
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/100 "2009-02-22T00:56:01Z")
> [@Lightray](#):
>
> It occurs to me that Sam is probably going to come back from his no-brain-activity coma, having encountered whatever it is that D’Anna was contacting in between life and death.
Could be. D’Anna was mostly looking for the FF, but it seems like she was tapping into whatever makes the Hybrids speak gibberish. Ellen denied knowledge of the in between place. Somebody out there apparently can send visions to both humans and Cylons, maybe using an even more advanced version of rez-tech. Humans need to be doped up on kamala root.
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