# Battlestar Galactica 4.18 - "Deadlock" (spoilers)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [February 20, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664 "2009-02-20T02:42:45Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/101 "2009-02-22T00:56:09Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
Sam’s EEG already jumped back into life, late in the episode - and without a snotwash.
[/quote]
Yeah, right after the miscarriage. I doubt that’s be a coincidence.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/102 "2009-02-22T01:29:28Z")
Shit, you’re right. Please don’t tell me Liam reincarnated as Sam 2.0.
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/103 "2009-02-22T01:43:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Shit, you’re right. Please don’t tell me Liam reincarnated as Sam 2.0.
I sure hope not. Liam was -5 months old. Wouldn’t make for much of a conversationalist, and I don’t think Starbuck is big on changing adult diapers.
> [@](#):
>
> I know we’ve all tried to forget that episode, but isn’t that the black market group from the episode of the same name? In that case, they haven’t gotten rid of them because they can’t. Notice that those guys weren’t trying to grab food from the distribution centers run by the marines.
>
> -Joe
I know the black market was allowed to exist, on other ships, I just find it hard to believe they’d be allowed to steal food at gunpoint on the Galactica. But, Adama just passed out guns to everybody, so who knows? I don’t know where they’re going with Baltar’s “last fully human solution.” I guess arming everyone is better than inviting some Centurions onboard for crowd control.
Damn though, those Centurions are getting downright cute these days.
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### Author:  [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/104 "2009-02-22T01:46:23Z")
Maybe his little pop-tart brain sent out its upload signal, but instead of a res ship, it found an adult brain with a compatible OS that was in the process of rebooting…
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/105 "2009-02-22T01:47:49Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#):
>
> Maybe his little pop-tart brain sent out its upload signal, but instead of a res ship, it found an adult brain with a compatible OS that was in the process of rebooting…
So Ron Moore is a Right To Lifer? 🙂
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/106 "2009-02-22T01:48:18Z")
> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> I sure hope not. Liam was -5 months old. Wouldn’t make for much of a conversationalist, and I don’t think Starbuck is big on changing adult diapers…
On the bright side we’d be in for plenty of CFNM with her chasing a naked Anders around. 😃
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/107 "2009-02-22T02:27:45Z")
CFNM?
😕
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/108 "2009-02-22T02:29:42Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> CFNM 😕
I had to google it. Yes, clothed female naked male is a real abbreviation.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/109 "2009-02-22T02:37:05Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> The use of the ship as metaphor for the fleet struck me as heavy handed, clumsy, and cheap.
What’s the name of the show again?
Damn, I just realized I’ve missed Baltar. I’ve missed his desperate, improvisational weaseling and grandstanding. I love when he’s repeating what his Virtual Six says, and is suddenly suprised by what he’s saying. (Remember when she got him to ask for a nuclear warhead?)
One thing about Baltar that I wish there’d been a lot more of on the show is him doing actual science. He’s supposed to be a genius; it’d be nice to see that big brain in action.
I’m still half-expecting the show to conclude with **no explanation** for Baltar’s Virtual Six. (And Caprica Six’s Virtual Baltar – does she still have that? I’d love to see a scene where the real Caprica Six and the real Baltar are together, and both have their VB and BS, respectively, talking to them. And then – what if the VB and VS interacted? Blow your frakkin’ mind, Man.)
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/110 "2009-02-22T02:37:20Z")
> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> I had to google it. Yes, clothed female naked male is a real abbreviation.
As Chaucer us, shall Dryden be.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/111 "2009-02-22T02:38:09Z")
> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> I had to google it. Yes, clothed female naked male is a real abbreviation.
I prefer NFNF.
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### Author:  [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/112 "2009-02-22T03:17:27Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#):
>
> Yes, I remember the plot point. BUT the fact that Tigh and Ellen couldn’t conceive does NOT mean that he didn’t love her, nor that he loves Caprica more. It just doesn’t mean that. She’s making it mean that out of jealousy and hurt. In fact, Mo Ryan and Alan Sepinwall asked [Jane Espenson](http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-deadlock-jane-espenson.html#more) about this, and she said:
>
> \
>
> Reading this confirmed my view that Ellen was just being a bitch, and her statements about who Tigh loved more were not coming from some factual assertion about Cylon conception, but from her own emotional fuckedness.
Waitaminute, how come everybody’s pinning the lack of conception/baby going bye-bye on Tigh? Why couldn’t it be that it’s Ellen’s lack of love for Tigh that prevented her having babies, and Caprica’s loss of happy thoughts as she discovers he’ll frak his ex-wife that caused the baby to slip? Makes more sense that it’d be more the mother’s emotions than dad’s that would determine the final outcome.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/113 "2009-02-22T03:29:15Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#):
>
> Why couldn’t it be that it’s Ellen’s lack of love for Tigh that prevented her having babies, and Caprica’s loss of happy thoughts as she discovers he’ll frak his ex-wife that caused the baby to slip?
Cause both ideas are really, really, dumb. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/114 "2009-02-22T03:40:59Z")
> [@Prox](#):
>
> Yeah, right after the miscarriage. I doubt that’s be a coincidence.
Of course it wasn’t a coincidence. The scene with Liam dying was in the sickbay. Before moving on to other action, they show what else is going on in sickbay – which happens to be Anders’ regaining brain activity.
There was no other point in the episode they could’ve shown that, without it seeming gratuitously random. And there is no other time it could’ve happened in the sickbay without someone having immediately noticed.
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### Author:  [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/115 "2009-02-22T03:49:16Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#):
>
> Waitaminute, how come everybody’s pinning the lack of conception/baby going bye-bye on Tigh? Why couldn’t it be that it’s Ellen’s lack of love for Tigh that prevented her having babies, and Caprica’s loss of happy thoughts as she discovers he’ll frak his ex-wife that caused the baby to slip? Makes more sense that it’d be more the mother’s emotions than dad’s that would determine the final outcome.
Caprica’s first baby problems happen when Tigh is fucking Ellen, when Caprica has no idea what’s happening. There’s a direct cut from the robo-love-machines to Caprica clutching her stomach in pain, but she only consciously finds out about their intimacy when bitchy Ellen drops the bomb later in the most painful way she can.
Of course, editing can be sneaky. The same women got into a fight just a little bit earlier, which might’ve been cause aplenty for her pregnancy problems. The sneaky cut from the frakking to the baby pain doesn’t mean for a “fact” that Tigh’s choices caused the baby’s death. Even so, the relationship between Tigh and the death is still established above and beyond the statements and beliefs of the characters themselves. That’s not the final word to close the discussion, but it’s also not an empty assertion to note the potential implications from how the episode is put together structurally.
These little details about the proximate cause are still bothersome, though, especially since there’s no ambiguity all about the broader narrative cause for the miscarriage: There is not a one-race solution for the humans or the Cylons, and the baby was a sign of the past instead of the future. They needed to kill it off somehow, it’s just that they choose a funky way to do it.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/116 "2009-02-22T03:49:48Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#):
>
> Maybe his little pop-tart brain sent out its upload signal, but instead of a res ship, it found an adult brain with a compatible OS that was in the process of rebooting…
… and more or less vacant. Yeah, that’s what I was thinking too.
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### Author:  [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/117 "2009-02-22T03:56:31Z")
> [@simster](#):
>
> There are 12 models -
>
> still works -
>
> 8 SkinJobs
> 1 Hybrid
> 1 Base Star
> 1 Centurian
> 1 Raider
Oooo … that impressed me … until I remembered the rez ships and the rez hub.
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/118 "2009-02-22T04:01:10Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#):
>
> Waitaminute, how come everybody’s pinning the lack of conception/baby going bye-bye on Tigh? Why couldn’t it be that it’s Ellen’s lack of love for Tigh that prevented her having babies, and Caprica’s loss of happy thoughts as she discovers he’ll frak his ex-wife that caused the baby to slip? Makes more sense that it’d be more the mother’s emotions than dad’s that would determine the final outcome.
I don’t think we’re blaming Tigh so much as whether we like it or not, a lapse in true wuv can be very bad for a Cylon baby. Tigh wasn’t actively loving Caprica while he was fraking his wife, although he did imagine her in place of Ellen. It probably was Caprica’s doubt about Tigh’s love that did it.
Actually, it was probably Cottle’s smoking. Baby killer!
Actually actually, I’m still placing bets on a mystery third player who has advanced tech and we’ll find out there’s nothing actually mystical or magical going on. All these visions and true love stuff preventing reproduction could be someone else’s machinations to bring humans and Cylons together.
> [@KneadToKnow](#):
>
> Oooo … that impressed me … until I remembered the rez ships and the rez hub.
And the Heavy Raiders and supply ships.
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### Author:  [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/119 "2009-02-22T04:13:30Z")
> [@Prox](#):
>
> Yeah, right after the miscarriage. I doubt that’s be a coincidence.
Now there’s an idea. I’m surprised no one mentioned that before! 😉
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### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-18-deadlock-spoilers/486664/120 "2009-02-22T04:38:18Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#):
>
> Oooo … that impressed me … until I remembered the rez ships and the rez hub.
Well, they havent shown the heavy raiders, the rez ships or hubs to be ‘living critters’ in the same way that they have shown the others…
They specifically talked about the raiders resurecting, lobotomizing them and the centurians, and the hybrids are the ‘brain’ of the Base stars…
Maybe its “There are atleast 12 Models …”
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