# Battlestar Galactica 4.19 - "Someone to Watch Over Me" (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 27, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684 "2009-02-27T17:10:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/201 "2009-03-01T23:03:07Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I think Tigh says “There must be some kinda way outta here”, I remember that, but it’s not like they were singing the lyrics. Not “Battlestar galactica, the Musical.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/202 "2009-03-01T23:10:29Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > In that case, I go back to my first question. How is it they are speaking nearly exactly the same dialect of English as we are? > > How is it they worship gods with names from our own history? > > How is it they eat foods that we can recognize? Wouldn’t the plant and animal life on their planets be different? > > How is it that a couple of episodes ago I saw Adama writing with a pen that looks exactly like one I got from Staples a while back? > > Do you expect explanations for all this stuff? None of it is any different from “All Along the Watchtower.” I see all of those things as being different. Broadcast a show in ancient Greek, and your ratings will be lower than PBS against Monday Night Football. Klingons and Vorlons also speak English…most of the time. Think some Klingon to Klingon conversations got subtitles. The common gods tie in with the notion of Earth/human history, but do not specifically have to be “our” universe. A pen is a pen…it’s a functional design that could logically have been developed elsewhere along similar lines. Same as the vehicles seen on New Caprica. They have toothpaste, too…apparently Feldergarb Toothpaste comes in tubes much like ours does. The piano was not a Steinway, the trucks were not Fords, the pen was not a Bic. Those are all generic equivalents of functional items. But a specific, recognizable song that we all know..that’s different. It is not a generic equivalent…it’s “_All Along the Watchtower_” as written by Bob Dylan, and sorta like it was performed by Jimi Hendrix. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/203 "2009-03-01T23:25:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Broadcast a show in ancient Greek, and your ratings will be lower than PBS against Monday Night Football. But this justification is independent of your analysis. If you need to continuity-wank the song, then you need to continuity-wank the English. You know, they could have taken pains to assure us that the characters don’t actually know English and that we are viewing a “translated” record, but they didn’t, because in the end, the purpose of drama and literature is not continuity. > [@](#): > > A pen is a pen…it’s a functional design that could logically have been developed elsewhere along similar lines. But it is not _solely_ functional. I recognized the pen because of its non-functional characteristics. > [@](#): > > The piano was not a Steinway There was no brand-name visible, but it was too much like a real piano for there to be any believable possibility of independent creation. > [@](#): > > the trucks were not Fords Again, the non-functional characteristics of some of the vehicles make them undeniably the same as vehicles we have, obviating any reaosnable possibility of coincidence. > [@](#): > > Those are all generic equivalents of functional items. They all have functional and non-functional characteristics. In that respect, they are just like a song. > [@](#): > > But a specific, recognizable song that we all know..that’s different. It is not a generic equivalent…it’s “_All Along the Watchtower_” as written by Bob Dylan, and sorta like it was performed by Jimi Hendrix. What’s the difference between a new song and an old, popular song? If you had heard the soundtrack before you ever watched the show, would it trouble you that you the song was recognizable? Just pretend that Bob Dylan wrote this song for this show then. Does that help? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/204 "2009-03-01T23:26:38Z")
But don’t the cylons originate from our Earth? Isn’t that what this season has been revealing? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/205 "2009-03-01T23:36:50Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Just pretend that Bob Dylan wrote this song for this show then. Does that help? Only if Kara Thrace is really Kara Dylan. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/206 "2009-03-01T23:43:11Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Only if Kara Thrace is really Kara Dylan. Kara Zimmerman. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/207 "2009-03-01T23:49:45Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Only if Kara Thrace is really Kara Dylan. If Bear McCreary had written an original composition, would you be insisting that she be his daughter? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/208 "2009-03-02T00:09:36Z")
I believe there was an interview early on that addressed some of this - IIRC, it basicaly stated that they chose some elements (Hummers, Handguns, etc…) to be more/less our time equivalant for several reasons - 1.) Its a bunch cheaper to use a Hummer where you want a “all terrain wheeled vehicle” instead of trying to create a new fantasictal version of it. 2.) It kept things reasonably grounded - yes, these people have advanced technologies, but fundementally, they are just like “us” - dealing with similar things that we deal with - keeps the sci-fi sci-fi, but allows an audience that usually dislikes sci-fi things they can latch on to. As for the names of the Gods/Lords of Kobol, whatever - I think the same thing applies - yes, there may very well be a tie to our own history or there may not be - but it still keeps the stories grounded, you dont have casual viewers asking things like - “Who was the goddess of war again, was that thksingling or sebsatcitally?” As much as I like the works of Tolkien, all the “made up” names made it hard to follow - not so much because they were made up, but because many didn’t follow names I was familiar with. Ask yourself sometime how we got from “the name that must not be spoken” to YHWH to Yahweh to Jehovah - it keeps the legend/myth/story grounded for the audience. So, I can accept all of the choices without having to look for anything special - they chose that song because it had some meaning - and that meaning happens to be that Anders was playing it the day the music died. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/209 "2009-03-02T00:10:54Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > If Bear McCreary had written an original composition, would you be insisting that she be his daughter? You do see a distinction between an original composition, with no baggage, and a Bob Dylan song, decades old, with which we all already have associations? The song already exists. Saying Sam Anders wrote it is jarring and takes me out of the BSG reality the way an original song would not. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/210 "2009-03-02T00:14:30Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > But don’t the cylons originate from our Earth? Isn’t that what this season has been revealing? Yes. But this season has also revealed that the Cylons had arrived to our Earth ~2000 years before “now” (show-time “now”). Also: [podcast](http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast.php) is up. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/211 "2009-03-02T00:37:51Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > If Bear McCreary had written an original composition, would you be insisting that she be his daughter? Of course not. If they’d used an original composition, there’s no storyline reason Kara’s dad, or Anders, couldn’t have written it. Papa Thrace or Anders did not write _All Along the Watchtower._ Dylan did. Therefore, if the song exists in BSGverse, Dylan and history mostly as we know it should exist as well. This means that the events we’re shown have to have occurred at some unknown point after 1967…and that the song remained popular whenever the Cylons found/conquered Earth. ---
**Author:** ![jormundgondir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@jormundgondir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jormundgondir)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/212 "2009-03-02T01:01:28Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I disagree. “You’re dismissed” is specifically a military thing. A civilian would say something more like “We’re finished here” or “You can leave now” or “Get out of my office”. I actually thought that was great: my interpretation was “ah so there’s some use in having been a school teacher!” It felt like a vice principal coolly sending a bad kid away from the Office. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/213 "2009-03-02T01:17:43Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Coulda been worse. He could have used _Mr. Roboto_… > 😃 Tigh: Domo arigato . . . Tyrol: Mr. Roboto? Anders: Domo? Torry: Domo? Tigh: _What the frak does that mean?_ ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/214 "2009-03-02T01:22:43Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Of course not. If they’d used an original composition, there’s no storyline reason Kara’s dad, or Anders, couldn’t have written it. Papa Thrace or Anders did not write _All Along the Watchtower._ Dylan did. Therefore, if the song exists in BSGverse, Dylan and history mostly as we know it should exist as well. This means that the events we’re shown have to have occurred at some unknown point after 1967…and that the song remained popular whenever the Cylons found/conquered Earth. It’s almost impossible to make that make sense – and I’ve been trying. We’ll probably have to accept the song as a translation from a comparable Cylon ditty, just like we accept the spoken and written language used by the characters in general. (Did the 12 Colonial planets each have their own language, but with everybody also speaking a common language? There should at least be different accents. Too late now, but it would have been cool if they’d come up with consistent accents for the different Colonial worlds, so that when we heard somebody, we’d know where they were from. On the other hand, as Lee Adama was talking about last week, their planets of origin have become irrelevant.) With the headcount given at the beginning of each episode, I used to wonder if it 30,000-something people would be genetically diverse enough to create a whole new human population – but then I read that there’s evidence our species (or a recent precursor) was once down to just a couple of thousand individuals. (The survivor count is humans-only, right? Did it go down after Tigh, Tyrol, Tory and Anders discovered they were Cylons?) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/215 "2009-03-02T01:41:47Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > With the headcount given at the beginning of each episode, I used to wonder if it 30,000-something people would be genetically diverse enough to create a whole new human population – but then I read that there’s evidence our species (or a recent precursor) was once down to just a couple of thousand individuals. Could they preserve technology? Given that they find a habitable planet and get rid of the Cavilcade, I don’t believe they could even build a bulldozer to clear the land to build a nuclear power plant to generate the energy for the factory to build semiconductors. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/216 "2009-03-02T01:46:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Could they preserve technology? Given that they find a habitable planet and get rid of the Cavilcade, I don’t believe they could even build a bulldozer to clear the land to build a nuclear power plant to generate the energy for the factory to build semiconductors. They have plenty of power generating ship enignes - the Cylon’s have plenty of technology to share, while they wont immediately be what they were, its not a stretch to think they can rebuild/maintain quite a bit of it. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/217 "2009-03-02T02:01:06Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > You do see a distinction between an original composition, with no baggage, and a Bob Dylan song, decades old, with which we all already have associations? The song already exists. Saying Sam Anders wrote it is jarring and takes me out of the BSG reality the way an original song would not. Where did we see that Sam wrote it? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/218 "2009-03-02T02:15:01Z")
> [@simster](#): > > They have plenty of power generating ship enignes - the Cylon’s have plenty of technology to share, while they wont immediately be what they were, its not a stretch to think they can rebuild/maintain quite a bit of it. Can the Cylons make toothpaste? 🙂 Maybe the Cylons can help them. I’ve always felt the survivors would degenerate into a bronze age society, hence our Greek gods. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/219 "2009-03-02T02:40:54Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > With the headcount given at the beginning of each episode, I used to wonder if it 30,000-something people would be genetically diverse enough to create a whole new human population – but then I read that there’s evidence our species (or a recent precursor) was once down to just a couple of thousand individuals. And I think there are more recent examples of isolated populations beginning with small numbers of individuals. I’m no expert in this area though, and I can’t recall any specifics. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > You do see a distinction between an original composition, with no baggage, and a Bob Dylan song, decades old, with which we all already have associations? The song already exists. Saying Sam Anders wrote it is jarring and takes me out of the BSG reality the way an original song would not. It’s part of the suspension of disbelief, just the same as it is with having a space-going vessel with Earth-like gravity, just the same as it is with having people in some unknown place and time speaking perfectly idiomatic contemporary English, just the same as it is knowing that you aren’t watching an actual Admiral Adama, but an actor named Olmos portraying the role, just the same as it is knowing that most of the music was written by a real person, Bear McCreary, and not a fictional person in the story. There is no difference between a song that you’ve heard before and a song that you haven’t heard before. In both cases, the song exists in the real world, independent of the events in the story. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Of course not. If they’d used an original composition, there’s no storyline reason Kara’s dad, or Anders, couldn’t have written it. All fiction is contrary to reality. They can say that Anders wrote it simply by stating the fact. It’s the same whether the song was composed by Bob Dylan or Bear McCreary. > [@](#): > > Papa Thrace or Anders did not write _All Along the Watchtower._ Dylan did. Not if they don’t say that Dylan wrote it. > [@](#): > > This means that the events we’re shown have to have occurred at some unknown point after 1967…and that the song remained popular whenever the Cylons found/conquered Earth. And if Bear McCreary wrote a new song for use in the series in 2008, then – Papa Thrace or Anders did not write _X_. Bear McCreary Did. This means that the evens we’re shown have to have occurred at some unknown point after 2008…and that the song remained popular whenever the Cylons found/conquered Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684/220 "2009-03-02T02:54:55Z")
**Rubystreak** you do realize there is literal metric tons of evidence supporting our evolution here on earth and absolutely zero to even suggest that we flew here on space ships. of course its not meant to be here in our universe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-4-19-someone-to-watch-over-me-spoilers/487684.md?page=12)