# Battlestar Galactica Finale Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 20, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206 "2009-03-20T19:33:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Prox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/301 "2009-03-23T19:47:15Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] But in the recent episode’s threads where Glass’ name was mentioned, I seem to recall that it was in another context. I’ll try to find it and look at it more carefully. [/quote] I think that was me. Someone was complaining about attributing a real world song to someone in the show, so I pointed out that they did it before with the Glass song and didn’t remember any complaints about that. I think Hera’s importance is more that she was a fusion of Cylon & humon and thus the best chance of breaking the cycle. In my mind, her status as mitochondrial Eve is secondary and not really necessary. [QUOTE=Lightray] I think the list of angels we’ve seen is: Head Six (Shelley Godfrey) Head Baltar Dodona Selloi (oracle on New Caprica who talked to D’Anna) Head Elosha Head Leoben (in “Maelstrom”) Dreilide Thrace Kara Thrace (v2.0) [/quote] Wasn’t there an episode Adama was seeing his ex? Maybe on their anniversary? I’m not sure if that was an Angel or a good old fashioned hallucination, though. It’s been awhile. So how many independent times were Centurions/Cylons developed? It always amused me that they always looked similar and weren’t ever called robots. Maybe if fanboys can restrain themselves when they name their creation, we can avoid repeating all this. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/302 "2009-03-23T19:57:52Z")
> [@Corner\_Case](#): > > So, 150,000 years later, Dylan can’t be sued for copyright infringement because _All Along The Watchtower_ is in the public domain? How about plagarism? Plagiarism isn’t actionable under copyright law. Anyway, Dylan didn’t copy. It was independent creation. Independent creations that just happen to be identical are all protectable. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/303 "2009-03-23T20:06:27Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I think the list of angels we’ve seen is: > > Head Six (Shelley Godfrey) > Head Baltar > Dodona Selloi (oracle on New Caprica who talked to D’Anna) > Head Elosha > Head Leoben (in “Maelstrom”) > Dreilide Thrace > Kara Thrace (v2.0) > Heh to both calling Lampkin “Lumpkin”, and to adding the cat as an angel. Why is Dreilide there? Piano Man was not her father, just some barfly whose name we never learned. The cat, and the Ellen-face that Tigh saw when he was frakking C6, were imaginings, not angels. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/304 "2009-03-23T20:07:49Z")
Still don’t quite buy it. There were scenes like Athena and Roslin looking at each other across the balconies, and them watching Six and Baltar slam shut that door, big time, that implied some major resonance and significance to those events. That door closing especially. But everything could have played out the same if they all met up and walked there together, arm and arm like the Wizard of Oz. If all that was necessary was to get Hera to the CiC, none of the rest of that would have been necessary. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/305 "2009-03-23T20:09:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why is Dreilide there? Piano Man was not her father, just some barfly whose name we never learned. I didn’t catch this: why isn’t that an angelic vision of her father? The guy at the piano definately vanished, and we were meant to note that he vanished. He wasn’t a real dude. He might have been some random angel instead of her father, but he was not standard issue human from anything I could tell. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/306 "2009-03-23T20:10:56Z")
Oh, wait - you must have meant Dreilide as in “the guy who taught little Kara the coordinates of True Earth”. Agreed. Or she might have been an angel herself all along (not that you’d know it from the positively disgraceful way she carried on) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/307 "2009-03-23T20:13:16Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > I didn’t catch this: why isn’t that an angelic vision of her father? She didn’t see him as her father, in fact she was telling him \*about \*her father while coming on to him. Could be the same angel in a different avatar, though. So could other cameo-appearance angels. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/308 "2009-03-23T20:18:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > She didn’t see him as her father, in fact she was telling him \*about \*her father while coming on to him. He hit the last key with a “gunslinger” hand (like Harpo Marx says Ron Moore) and she blew out the “smoke from the barrel” like she did with her Father. Then she realized he was her Father I was given to understand. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/309 "2009-03-23T20:19:24Z")
It was sort of dreamlike oddness for her though, hard to tell what she was really feeling about what was going on. It also felt like it could be a vision of him, perhaps as a younger man, who she recognized but didn’t quite want to recognize. Whomever he was, he was basically mirroring her father teaching her, and when they were done she looked at him with something very close to almost tearful recognition, at which point he took her face in his hand and smiled just like her father had… Still one of the best moments in the series, whatever it was, even if you could see it coming. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/310 "2009-03-23T20:32:11Z")
The producers seem to be certain that it was supposed to be her father, and that she only realized it at the very of the sequence: > **[BG4: "Someone to Watch Over Me," Pt 3 - Bear McCreary](https://bearmccreary.com/bg4-someone-to-watch-over-me-pt-3/)** > > (Continued from Chapter 1 & 2) CHAPTER 3: POST-PRODUCTION \*\*\* Post-Production: Dealing with the Piano \*\*\* After I spent months helping David Weddle and Bradley Thompson write their script, and weeks helping Michael Nankin shoot it, my work on... I guess it makes sense given that her father left her at a young age, so she would barely remember what he looks like. I didn’t catch it in the first watchthrough, but that blog points out that the tape of her father that Kara listens to at the end of the episode is the completed version of the composition Slick was struggling to write the entire episode. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/311 "2009-03-23T20:37:51Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Still don’t quite buy it. There were scenes like Athena and Roslin looking at each other across the balconies, and them watching Six and Baltar slam shut that door, big time, that implied some major resonance and significance to those events. That door closing especially. But everything could have played out the same if they all met up and walked there together, arm and arm like the Wizard of Oz. If all that was necessary was to get Hera to the CiC, none of the rest of that would have been necessary. Not to mention that Athena killed Natalie for absolutely no reason. The Six who took Hera into the Opera House was not doing anything bad to her, despite the great fear and urgency of the scene from Athena’s perspective. All that angst was really over nothing, and there was no real reason why Athena and Roslin were shut out while C6 and Baltar were carrying Hera. Maybe the Opera House was just really intense deja vu and nothing more meaningful than that. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/312 "2009-03-23T20:44:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why is Dreilide there? Piano Man was not her father, just some barfly whose name we never learned. > > The cat, and the Ellen-face that Tigh saw when he was frakking C6, were imaginings, not angels. _That’s_ the Ellen (as potential angel) that someone had referenced? I never once thought that was supposed to be anything more than visual representation of Tigh’s laying back and thinking of England to get the job done. Same with Bill’s day remembering his wife. I think that was all supposed to be visual representation of his memories. The difference, of course, being that the angels all seem to motivate people to _do_ something (usually Hera-related) when they show up. … although I suppose the Ellen-vision was motivating Saul to do Caprica. Still. The cat was just showing that Lampkin was off his rocker. I don’t think Lee ever saw it or heard it. And still, he made the guy President! Guess, after their luck, better to have someone you _know_ is whacko from the beginning, rather than one who goes off on psychoactive drugs, or on psychoactive drugs and hookers, or who goes off on a murder spree. Less of a surprise when the inevitable disaster occurs. ---
**Author:** ![HelloKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecccb3/32.png) [@HelloKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelloKitty)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/313 "2009-03-23T20:57:04Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. That they may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens… Thanks for this! I’ve always loved that opening to the Classic BSG. After alot of contemplation I have determined that I LOVED this finale. I was on the edge of my seat nearly the entire episode…this reminded me of why I loved the show from the beginning; the characters, the writing, and the acting. This was very satisfying. My thoughts: The Opera House/CIC sequence was very well done. The music in this part really made it intense, too! For that matter, the music in the entire series could be considered a character in itself. Cottle kissing Laura’s hand. ::niagra falls:: Starbuck trying to figure out what coordinates to jump to…turned out it was a pivotal moment (music here was awesome!!), and for an “angel” she sure did have to think long and hard about it, didn’t she??? I was both happy and sad for Lee and Bill…both had finally gotten to the point where they were free of the bonds of duty, honor and responsibility to others, living in a paradise of sorts. But neither now had anyone to share it with, which made it tragic and heartbreaking. (Question: What did Adama do with his raptor??? Why didn’t they find any raptor remains 150,000 years later??) Got a kick out of Ellen and Saul realizing that they were now stuck with each other! Be careful what you wish for indeed!! Anders final scene was oddly moving to me, (that and Adama/Roslin were the only scenes that brought me close to tears). Anders in the flashback talking about “perfection” and seeing him in that tank, thinking about the journey that took him to that place, and what perfection actually ended up meaning for him. Quite an arc for that character. Also “See you on the other side…” ::teardrop:: I loved them sending all the ships to the sun, riding into the sunset as it were. I know alot of people feel there’s no way they would have abandoned all that technology, but I think it was necessary and everyone who had been “fleeing from the Cylon tyranny” all this time realized it. After reading some interviews with RDM that were posted upthread, I have a different view of the Starbuck resolution. Don’t necessarily agree with it, but I can appreciate the idea. Maybe it will grow on me after repeat viewings. Best farewell of a sci-fi show since Star Trek DS9, IMO. Emmy nominations for Moore/Eick, EJO, Michael Hogan and Mary McDonnel should be no brainers. Should be. Along with missing the show I will also greatly miss these threads!! It has been great enjoying the journey with all of you! ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/314 "2009-03-23T21:13:36Z")
Its another nitpick, but I didn’t quite get the action of the assault teams coming out of the galactica into the colony. Did I miss an airlock sequence? They seemed to go from there being a vacuum to a breathable, human-style atmosphere just by walking through some tunnels deeper into the complex, without any airlocks in the way. I’m pretty sure that SPACE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!! -MORBO ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/315 "2009-03-23T21:20:22Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > I’m pretty sure that SPACE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!! -MORBO Unless G-d wants it to. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/316 "2009-03-23T21:55:03Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Its another nitpick, but I didn’t quite get the action of the assault teams coming out of the galactica into the colony. Did I miss an airlock sequence? They seemed to go from there being a vacuum to a breathable, human-style atmosphere just by walking through some tunnels deeper into the complex, without any airlocks in the way. I’m pretty sure that SPACE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!! -MORBO I’m bothered by the fact that they took their helmets at all. How the hell are they supposed to know if Cavil installed nerve gas vents in the corridors or a way to rapidly decompress them? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/317 "2009-03-23T21:58:38Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I’m bothered by the fact that they took their helmets at all. How the hell are they supposed to know if Cavil installed nerve gas vents in the corridors or a way to rapidly decompress them? Did you see how beautiful Lee’s hair was? Also, the space suits might obstruct vision, maybe experienced marines prefer to have a conventional helmet on or nothing instead of a space suit helmet. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/318 "2009-03-23T22:14:00Z")
Colonial helmets are specially designed to blind their wearers. (check out the helmet lights, srsly.) Of _course_ they take them off at any opportunity. However, it is likely that the Galactica wedged itself into the Colony such that the air loss was low enough that explosive decompression didn’t afflict everyone in there. And Cylon ships apparently self-repair, so the hole may have sealed itself around Galactica. And when we originally saw Boomer land on a baseship – to meet many naked versions of herself – there was inexplicably atmosphere there, too. You’re better off worrying why the artificial gravity did not go out when Starbuck’s return in her spooky Viper knocked out power to the whole fleet. srsly. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/319 "2009-03-23T22:24:09Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > … And the point of the vision of the Opera House was _not_ to provide an outline of events that were going to occur on Galactica. That’s not how any of the prophetic visions have worked. The Opera House vision was important to get the people who needed to be involved, involved. > > Laura needed to have the urge to go looking for Hera, so she could shelter her from the Cavilcade passing by. > > Both Athena and Laura needed to get to the CIC for the showdown aftermath, which they did. > > Caprica needed to get Hera into the CIC, so Cavil could take Hera hostage, and the whole thing subsequently play out. > > And Baltar needed to be in the CIC to reveal the whole bit about the angels, standing there _right now_, to everyone. > > The visual cues linking the Opera House vision to Galactica – people glimpsing each other through doors, the door closing ahead, etc. – were to tell the four of them that what they were supposed to do was _now_. For Caprica and Baltar, it was “take Hera into the Opera House/CIC”. For Athena and Laura it was “follow Hera into the Opera House/CIC”. Without those visions impelling them, they might not have made their way there – Laura would have stayed in the med bay, Athena with Helo. > > Now, whether they each actually _did_ anything of relevance in the CIC once they each were there… that’s something to debate. Very nicely put! The prophecy was indeed the driving force for the characters that set the stage for the climax of the series in the CIC. This part of the finale was pure genius in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206/320 "2009-03-24T01:28:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why is Dreilide there? Piano Man was not her father, just some barfly whose name we never learned. > > The cat, and the Ellen-face that Tigh saw when he was frakking C6, were imaginings, not angels. You say imaginings - I say angels … either way - both factors helped to move folks into thier perspective roles. Without Ellen’s face, Tigh would likely have killed Caprica, without whom the dream sequence wouldnt have happened. Plus they had the whole (temporary) FF + Cylon baby. As for the cat, no idea, but clearly it led to Lumkin becoming pres… or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-finale-thread/490206.md?page=17)