# Battlestar Galactica--recommendations? (No spoilers, please) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526 "2009-02-12T14:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/21 "2009-02-12T18:33:35Z")
I’d say there are a few episodes where the veil between onscreen and real life politics gets distractingly thin, but it’s far less of a problem than in, say, Star Trek. There’s one particular stretch around the end of season 2 and beginning of season three where it’s especially egregious, but it’s still enjoyable if you get keep that from pulling you out of the experience. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/22 "2009-02-12T18:49:34Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I strongly dispute the “Bush bashing” accusation. One of the show’s putative “hero” characters, Starbuck, has unambiguously, and fairly convincingly, argued in favor of what would be the fleet’s equivalent of hard-right politics. (In her eulogy delivered at the end of “Pegasus,” for example.) The “New Caprica” storyline does dip into some of our modern political discourse for its terminology, but not to make clear points about our immediate situation. > > One of the strongest points about the show is that every character has been given a chance to be right on certain questions, and at other times, the same characters have been wrong on other questions, sometimes spectacularly so. I don’t recall the episode you mention. Arguments that are presented “fairly convincingly” is going to be in the eyes of the beholder, I guess. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/23 "2009-02-12T19:21:46Z")
ETA: Okay, on second thought I’m spoiler coding this. It gives no plot points, but does describe the series tone as it progresses. Your call. [spoiler]One thing that isn’t much of a spoiler IMO and might be worth pointing out, is that it’s a somewhat grim show. That doesn’t bother me much but does bother some people as the series progresses. It starts out kinda grim in the first season, gets rather grimmer in season two, descends into a deep, dark pit of grimness in season three and is currently wallowing in grimnosity in the final season. Though all _expect_ a light at the end of the tunnel, some have been put off by the dark. I feel this is as it should be, given the nature of the show. But not everyone is in full agreement as to the entertainment value of the experience. Thankfully a certain rough sense of humor never fully disappears, which is also realistic, humans being the critters they are.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/24 "2009-02-12T19:24:44Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > And, without trying to spoil the OP here, “Black Market” turns out to have had important implications for character development, and for a minor plot point that suddenly became very relevant two years later in the show. There _are_ a few episodes that seem like filler, but there aren’t many you can skip without missing something vital. The “filler” episodes were insisted upon by Sci-Fi and NBC/Universal. After that fantastic (and narratively cohesive) first season got great buzz and good ratings, The Powers That Be thought they had a major cash cow on hand, so they pressured Moore & company to insert “one offs” into their seasons. One offs are good because that means syndication dollars-- you don’t have to show this stuff in order. Of course, everyone who has ever watched BSG knows this was stupid pressure, because the show HAS to be watched in order so as to be appreciated. Really, it wasn’t until the end of Season 3.5 when they got word that there wasn’t going to be anything beyond a 20-episode Season 4 (plus Razor) that The Powers relaxed the requirement for the filler episodes; they knew it was all going to get wrapped up soon enough. But yeah, Black Market sucked, because it was the first obvious filler episode, and introduced a very, VERY random plot point that the writers pretty much dropped for a long, long time (and introduced other plot points that were from way, way out of left field). Oh, and to the OP: like everyone says, the Miniseries is great, 33 is fantastic, the first season is excellent. After that, its up and down-- none of the downs are really that painful, but the show will drag at points. The highs though? Good Gods, it’s great television. The show does cliffhangers VERY well, and the characters are just wonderful to follow/debate. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/25 "2009-02-12T20:02:12Z")
**Fenris** , you remember the chant of the Grey Council? - “I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light.”\* BSG is exactly the opposite of that. And not. Everybody and everything is grey, and they grey is up even more as time goes by. My wife dislikes sci-fi, and started watching this show out of her desire to see what makes me like sci-fi so much. She was hooked from the first episode. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/26 "2009-02-12T20:05:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Start with the miniseries. Basically, Man created the Cylons. They rebelled and left. Now they’re back, and they have a plan. > > That’s all you need, really. Be aware that the first episode of the series, “33,” is some of the most intense TV ever. It’s hard to keep up that intensity over 4 seasons, so don’t expect it to. I disagree with this. Expect it to. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/27 "2009-02-12T20:38:23Z")
I heartily recommend it, and being able to watch it as fast as you want on DVD would be awesome. What got me into trouble with the show is that I listened to the producer Ron Moore calling it hardcore scifi and kept driving home the point about how it’s not Star Trek and won’t use any Trek-ish gimmicks. But, I think what he meant is it’s dark, serious scifi, not hardcore scifi. It’s sort of scifi for grown-ups as opposed to the kids, but there could still be the occasional magic space radiation required by that week’s plot, let’s say. It does explore current events and issues a bit, but I’d never call it Bush bashing. If Moore is pushing any sort of agenda, I’d say it’s drinking and smoking. If you listen to any of his podcasts, you can always here him puffing on something and the clink of ice in his drink. 😉 I’ve always been conflicted about whether it’s plot-driven or character-driven. I fall on the side of plot-driven. The characters give great performances, but I’ve never grown that attached to them. I bounce up and down off the couch wondering, “what’s going to happen???” plot-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/28 "2009-02-12T20:57:45Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > But, I think what he meant is it’s dark, serious scifi, not hardcore scifi. It’s sort of scifi for grown-ups as opposed to the kids, but there could still be the occasional magic space radiation required by that week’s plot, let’s say. Agreed. I’m not normally one to bitch about such things, but Moore & Co actually do try to frame it realistically just enough, that when they don’t it sticks out like a sore thumb. Two instances in particular really annoyed me, one more because it was a dumb cliche hamfistedly applied. The other because it was so very, very dumb. In such cases I actually prefer they ramp up the magical garbedlygook explanation so I can at least fanwank it away better. But it’s rare enough that it hasn’t harmed my enjoyment of the show too much. > [@](#): > > I’ve always been conflicted about whether it’s plot-driven or character-driven. I fall on the side of plot-driven. The characters give great performances, but I’ve never grown that attached to them. I bounce up and down off the couch wondering, “what’s going to happen???” plot-wise. I’d say it is slightly more character-driven. The points where the show meanders are generally nothing but ( or very largely ) character development. But like better shows generally, the fact that both are featured prominently speaks to its quality. I watch it for both, but I admit I can start sulking when the plot begins to stall out. Though I’m certainly not in the “more space battles!” camp, cool as they are 🆒. ETA: Oh and on review I can say that my spoilered stuff is really just a very slight elaboration on **Icerigger** ’s comments ( which I missed before ) on the show’s tone. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/29 "2009-02-12T21:27:31Z")
Personally I haven’t seen it, but I’ve heard it’ a shot-for-shot remake of the original, with crazy monsters and stuff. All about this guy named Dumbledore Calrissian who needs to return the ring back to Mordor… Seriously, I haven’t seen it either, **Fenris** , but I plan on it after a billion recommendations. This is an excellent thread, thanks guys. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/30 "2009-02-12T21:36:10Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > After that, its up and down-- none of the downs are really that painful, but the show will drag at points. I think that’s my only real complaint. The parts that dragged could have been a lot more interesting had they distributed major events more. The end of 4.0 is an example of this. The first full ep with the Four as Cylons was cool, but the rest of the half-season dragged quite a bit, until 95% of the half-season’s plot points unload in the last episode or two. I know it makes for a damn good cliffhanger, but the voyage to Earth coulda been more spread out, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/31 "2009-02-12T21:41:38Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Just to reiterate, do not start here. Hold onto it, but pick up the mini-series on netflix or at your local video rental place. > > Meanwhile, while I won’t give a dissenting opinion exactly, I will say that it does have its weak moments. Beware the Ides of March…err…_Black Market_. I agree there are weak episodes, but I’m one of the three or four people who actually really liked “Black Market” 😃 We see a lot of the politics of the Colonial Fleet, which makes sense, since we’d expect their political system to be a mess (and it is). But their economy should _also_ be an utter wreck, and we don’t see enough of that. “Black Market” was a rare exception, and a good bit of world-building. It’s a flawed episode in some ways, but still good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/32 "2009-02-12T22:04:14Z")
I am also on the side of liking “Black Market.” I feel there are other episodes that are far weaker. I haven’t seen any of the fourth season yet, sadly. No cable TV (can’t afford it, don’t want it.) I’m waiting for the complete season on DVD. Unfortunately someone in another Cafe thread put a major spoiler for Season 4 in the thread title, but I digress. I heartily agree that this is a show worth sticking with (caveat being that I haven’t seen any of S4.) There were a few places that were a bit dubious, but it always, and I mean _always_ picks back up. Also, the acting is consistently first rate. Edit: I also heartily disagree that there’s any “Bush-bashing.” Multiple viewpoints in the show get their due, and _no one_ is a paragon of 100% good-decision making. It’s one of the things I love about the show. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/33 "2009-02-13T03:11:11Z")
I am in the middle of Season 3 right now, and I watch all 4 episodes on each DVD as it arrives in one sitting. I was up until midnight last night watching **Exodus, Parts 1 & 2**. So yeah, I highly recommend the show. (And BTW, I am not much of a sci-fi fan, except for Firefly of course.) PS Has there ever been a line in the series better than this one? _Starbuck: “Bitch stole my ride.”_ ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/34 "2009-02-13T03:39:20Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > PS Has there ever been a line in the series better than this one? > > _Starbuck: “Bitch stole my ride.”_ Yes, but it comes in season 4.5. Bill “B.A.” Adama: “Shove it up your ass.” ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/35 "2009-02-13T13:17:48Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I am also on the side of liking “Black Market.” I feel there are other episodes that are far weaker. I agree. The S3 episode with the space flu, Sagitarons who don’t believe in medicine and a serial killer doctor was easily the worst. Not only was it a boring episode, it served no purpose in either the short or long term story arc. You could in fact skip over it completely and not have missed anything important. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/36 "2009-02-13T13:32:25Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > BSG is twice the show Lost is. Frankly, I think that’s either an insult to BSG or a tremendous compliment to Lost. Lost is fun at times, and has some very good characters, but overall it’s not a really strong show. It’s pretty much four seasons of Character A holds a gun on Character B. BSG is on another level entirely. My 64-year-old mother, who loves quality television and movies but has never liked sci-fi in her life, was finally convinced to watch the BSG miniseries. She immediately repaired to Blockbuster, got as much of the series as she could on DVD, and is watching four episodes a night. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/37 "2009-02-13T14:16:26Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Yes, but it comes in season 4.5. > > Bill “B.A.” Adama: “Shove it up your ass.” I dunno. Adama’s “Drain the main vein” from a couple of weeks ago was hilarious. Totally didn’t expect it from that character and that actor. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/38 "2009-02-13T14:32:38Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I agree. The S3 episode with the space flu, Sagitarons who don’t believe in medicine and a serial killer doctor was easily the worst. Not only was it a boring episode, it served no purpose in either the short or long term story arc. You could in fact skip over it completely and not have missed anything important. I disagree with this. While the episode’s plot itself was entirely pointless, the character development of Helo was the true story here. And that storyline was rich. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/39 "2009-02-13T14:59:23Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I disagree with this. While the episode’s plot itself was entirely pointless, the character development of Helo was the true story here. And that storyline was rich. That episode is, for those who don’t want to read spoilers, “The Woman King”. It is pointless because, while it is supposed to be a Helo character development episode, Helo’s character doesn’t actually _develop_. He does exactly what you would expect, and does not have any character-changing moments (unlike, say, revelations about Apollo in “Black Market”). None of the secondary characters introduced there have ever shown up again. As a result, the episode’s only value is in the parts that build the Colonies’ background up. And none of _that_ has ever been relevant, again, either. It’s pretty much the nadir of the series. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526/40 "2009-02-13T15:46:01Z")
By coincidence, I just watched “Black Market” last night. (My gf is catching up with the series on DVD, and that’s where we were.) While the episode isn’t a total waste, and there are a couple of things to recommend it, I can’t join its defenders. It’s a structural mess, with pointless flashbacks-within-flashbacks; it has no narrative thrust, whipsawing back and forth between high tension and tell-don’t-show talkfests; it _way_ overshoots the mark on the darkness of its villains. Its intent (push the boy scout Apollo to his limits, and define the boundary between his moral idealism and his pragmatism) is laudable, but the execution fails. It’s obviously a show that wasn’t ready on the page, but that they felt they could rescue in the editing room; the desperation of the latter effort oozes from every frame. On the other hand, I’ll agree, it’s way better than “The Woman King.” I’ll probably never watch that episode again. That one _is_ a total waste. On the last hand, “Black Market” is followed by “Scar,” so the suckage does not persist. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-recommendations-no-spoilers-please/485526.md?page=3)