# Battlestar galactica sucks **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 25, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645 "2011-04-25T14:29:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Saganist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Saganist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saganist)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/121 "2011-04-28T18:06:54Z")
I made it to the mini-arc when they find the other battlestar with the insane admiral before I finally said fuck it and quit. Mostly I agree with **Baboonanza**. I like my sci-fi to actually have some sci aspects, not just be clearly-manufactured over-the-top soap-opera drama with characters who act either really naive or really selfish under the guise of being “dark”. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/122 "2011-04-28T18:15:26Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It ends up being philosophico-mystical claptrap and remedial theology. No, really. > > But there’s a fair bit of post-apocalyptic struggle for survival and questionably rash-but-necessary-or-are-they? decisions along the way so it’s not so bad while it lasts. Just remember to quit watching the show once they get off New Caprica and it’s just fine - the whole Cylon infiltrators paranoia is just in the beginning that I recall. They identify the limited number of Cylon models rather quickly. Only if by “rather quickly” you mean “halfway through the final season.” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/123 "2011-04-28T21:31:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It ends up being philosophico-mystical claptrap and remedial theology. No, really. I don’t get this criticism at all. It doesn’t _end up_ as philosophico-mystical claptrap, it was _conceived_ as philosophico-mystical claptrap. The new series did a great job of making it more palatable, but the core of BSG s is pure Erich Von Daniken Ancient Astronaut stuff - clumsily syncretizing just about any myth in the service of a suggested cyclic fate/Wheel O’ Karma for humanity. The rag-tag fleet’s homeworlds are named for the houses of the Zodiac (or the other way around, in the absurd concept of the series.) Our heroes are the twelve tribes of Israel as recounted in Exodus… and their pilots’ helmets are Egyptian Pharaohs’ nemes. Apollo! Lucifer! Athena! Sheba! I mean, really: > [@Original Opening](#): > > There are those who believe… that life here began out there… far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. That they may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens. They redeemed _the shit_ out of the original concept with the reboot - they did a great job of staying true to the core concept of the series, and it is necessarily filled with cheese. The 1978 Battlestar Galactica may have been aerosol cheese product, but the producers of the new series tweaked it until it was gouda. Consider that goin’ in, and don’t be disappointed when you aren’t served chalk. “Hey, let’s redo _Battlestar Galactica_… but… you know… as hard science fiction.” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/124 "2011-04-28T22:37:07Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > So anyway, this thread reminded me that I wanted to check out BSG. Watched the first few eps and it’s… alright. > > I like the “we’re the last survivors of our race, struggling to keep things together with no resources/help/under constant attack/etc” angle of it. But I have to say the “omg who’s a cylon?!!” stuff bores me to death. > > Which is more prominent throughout the series? If it all ends up being secret cylon drama I might as well bow out now. Different episodes of the series emphasize different themes and aspects of the show. Cylon paranoia is most prominent in the first season. It never entirely goes away, but is definitely de-emphasized in later episodes. (Although there’s going to be a HUGE storyline about certain unidentified cylons in Season 3.) Personally, I rather liked the paranoia about cylon identity. Concern about missing resources will grow through the series. Once something blows up, it’s not coming back. And, yes, if you have no patience for mystical claptrap, then you might as well give up now. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/125 "2011-04-29T01:55:54Z")
On the subject of paranoia, my favorite bit is when a group of characters are sitting at the dinner table discussing the issue, and one of them remarks that ANY of them could be a cylon. There’s a long, uncomfortable pause… …and then one of them chooses to break the tension by shouting “BOO!”😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/126 "2011-04-29T02:03:35Z")
I don’t see why anyone would complain that it’s not hard SF-- _nothing_ on TV is. If anything, it at least seemed harder to me than any of the various incarnations of _Star Trek_. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/127 "2011-04-29T05:57:08Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > I don’t get this criticism at all. > > It doesn’t _end up_ as philosophico-mystical claptrap, it was _conceived_ as philosophico-mystical claptrap.[…] Well I, being a young whipper snapper, didn’t know the original series from Adam. so there’s that 🙂 I don’t know, man. To me it felt like so much wasted potential, that’s all. As I said, I don’t mind fantasy IN SPACE!, and I don’t even have a problem with philosophico-mystical claptrap in and of itself. Hell, I’m a huge drooling fanboy of _Snow Crash_, so now that I think about it I’m not even absolutely opposed to having my -punk turned into something else halfway through. Maybe I simply was expecting too much from this particular show. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/128 "2011-04-29T08:00:51Z")
Still working my way through Season 1, but I agree with **Larry**. The original series mixed _Star Wars_, _Chariots of the Gods_ and some Mormon elements to create something very much of its time. The new series still has that rather goofy mix at its core, which is exactly why I love it. How much of the premise could they remove before it stops being _Battlestar Galactica_? ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/129 "2011-04-29T12:58:58Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > There were _religious people_ right there from the beginning, but I don’t recall anything suggesting it was actually divinely inspired. If I’m wrong, post the earliest example you can think of. Late to the party, but in the episiode Home Part 2… …using the mythical “Arrow of Apollo,” after it was placed in the hands of a statue, opened up an Earth’s eye view of the stars. They were in a cave and then _poof_ they were in a grassy field. It was, in no uncertain terms, magic. It was the 20th episode of the series…middle of the 2nd season. Love or hate the end of the series, but mystic BS was foreshadowed years in advance of the finale For everyone looking for ‘hard’ sci-fi on TV…what’s a better example? Because I get riled up when BSG is compared to shows that ‘got it right’ like Babylon 5…which also had freakin angels…only B5 also had demons (Shadows…whatever) and lousy time travel nonsense. Don’t get me started on the telepaths… I say that BSG, while still relying on dramatic & fantasy elements, also [made a better effort than most](http://www.amazon.com/Science-Battlestar-Galactica-Patrick-Justo/dp/0470399090) so called ‘sci-fi’ shows. I like the series because it’s a bunch of different things, and I don’t believe that the characters simply did “stupid things for inexplicable reasons.” They were _not_ the best humanity had to offer, facing the end of civilization, and acted somewhat accordingly. Remember the riot over coffee? That sounds just stupid enough to be realistic to me. It was a great concept with interesting characters who did interesting things. It provoked how the viewer looked at things. Politics, religion, terrorism, paranoia, love, war, abortion, trust, mysticism, military drama…all over the damn map…WITH cool spaceships & big explosions. A basic cable show about spaceships & robots was way more interesting than Doctor Who or Star Trek or Firefly or whatever the Geek Illuminati deems to be the best ‘sci-fi’ television out there. I’m sure someone will come along with something they consider ‘great’ sci-fi television, and I think Galactica will stand with them just fine. \*full disclosure, I love Doctor Who, Star Trek & Firefly. Especially the new 11th Doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/130 "2011-04-29T15:15:39Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Me too. I actually think it is the best series finale of all time. > > I know. We’re weird. I didn’t hate it. I think the reason it gets such a bad rap is because it wasn’t really on par with the rest of the show. And because ending such a beautiful thing, in any way, is bound to make some people bitter. I think BSG is the best television series of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/131 "2011-04-29T16:05:00Z")
More BSG spoilers ahead, so etc etc. You know, in Science Fiction we’re so used to chosen ones, destiny, prophecy, benevolent mysterious beings, malevolent mysterious beings, coincidence, intuition, trusting your feelings, ghosts, visions, miraculous saves, magic powers, and on and on, that we don’t even notice it. Because usually it’s given some pseudo-scientific veneer. But there’s no such thing as telekinesis, or telepathy, or clairvoyance, or precognition. Those things are magic, and including them in a science fiction setting means you’re including magic. But we’re so used to these things that a telepathic waif doesn’t break our suspension of disbelief. The reason some people were wrong-footed by Battlestar Galactica is that they accepted that magic is magic. Most other shows will leave some ambuguity. They won’t call the mysterious being who provides help an “Angel”, even though that’s clearly what it is. How does it make it cheesy for Six to call herself an angel of God, and for Baltar to call the vision Six an angel? Would it be less cheesy just because they didn’t use that word? How many other shows have we seen where there’s some mysterious helper, and then at the end nobody else saw the helper, and the protagonist is all, “who was that mysterious stranger?” Maybe it’s because I flat-out disbelieve all that sort of stuff in real life that it doesn’t bother me a bit that a show treated all this destiny and chosen one and prophecy crap seriously as miracles from God. Because that’s what it would be, if it were real, which it isn’t. But in the fictional world they created, how is God sending a prophecy more implausible than just having a prophecy? I know that God is fictional, but so is Gaius Baltar. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/132 "2011-04-29T18:47:42Z")
> [@AndyPolley](#): > > For everyone looking for ‘hard’ sci-fi on TV…what’s a better example? Because I get riled up when BSG is compared to shows that ‘got it right’ like Babylon 5…which also had freakin angels…only B5 also had demons (Shadows…whatever) and lousy time travel nonsense. Don’t get me started on the telepaths… _pushes glasses up nose_ Actually, assuming you haven’t seen The Lost Tales, then B5 didn’t really have angels or demons. The Vorlons passed themselves off as holy figures to the various younger figures to manipulate them (kinda like many of the aliens on Stargate SG-1, actually), and the Shadows… just look really freaky. I don’t think they ever pass themselves off as anything other than some big powerful group who enjoyed starting shit amongst the younger races. In Lost Tales, we do see what is treated as pretty much a straight forward demonic possession, complete with a Catholic priest arriving to perform an exorcism. Actually pretty interesting how they played it, if rather dialogue-heavy and sadly lacking in a cool space battle). Also, Babylon 5, for all it’s relative hardness, DID straight up have wizards. they were called Techno-Mages, with a “Sufficiently Advanced Technology” justification, but yes, wizards. And they were awesome. So yeah, relatively hard sci-fi with lots of magic and religiosity running all over the place. And yes, telepaths and time travel and immortal beings. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/133 "2011-04-29T19:06:19Z")
HERE BE UNTAGGED SPOILERS The problem with an interventionist omnipotent god being factual (and unchecked by other gods) is that it completely voids the \*other \*plotlines throughout the show. Before, you could ask yourself “Was the President really right to space all those people ?” or “Was that particular course of action justified, really ?”. Well now, knowing that the visions were sent from on high, of course she was right. She had a direct mandate from god almighty to do so. Doesn’t really get more unilateral than that. Same thing about Baltar and his pocket angel slash cocktease. He wasn’t in denial, or having hallucinations to rationalize his spinelessness. He “just” was the Chosen one or whatever. Even the scarcity and de-population issues become irrelevant when you know that god almighty wants them to reach Earth, evidently he’s not going to let them starve en route. If need be he’ll just pop a fertile planet in their path, and no one the wiser. I mean, when even a dead major character is just magicked right the fuck back halfway across the galaxy, what meaningful conflict is there any more ? What challenges are significant ? The whole fleet could have been blown to smithereens, and god would just have put it back together again. Hell, he could have simply teleported every single human and cylon from Caprica to Earth and spared them the charade. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/134 "2011-04-29T19:35:45Z")
Of course that’s the problem with God. But that’s because you and I are atheists, and realize that if God/Christianity were real, none of this Earthly existence makes any sense. What’s the point of it all? However, lots of people really believe in God, and believe that we’re here on Earth for a reason, and that we suffer and die and struggle for a reason. So the narrative makes sense on those terms. I understand where you’re going though. I’ve been reading the Narnia books to my kids, and I realize that C.S. Lewis was a serious Christian, and Aslan was supposed to be a serious parable about God/Jesus. Except, it doesn’t make sense on those terms. Oh, Aslan creates Narnia, but the Witch comes from Charn and introduces evil into the world? Well, you know, why can’t Aslan just twitch his nose and send her back to Charn? What’s the point of sending Diggory and Polly on a fetch quest? What’s the point of any of it? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/135 "2011-04-29T19:38:43Z")
**AndyPolley** , I didn’t get a “magic” vibe from the Temple of Athena at all. Unexplainable to the main characters, sure, but I figured it was just advanced technology, an overblown planetarium show, as someone called it. It clearly wasn’t a real field on Earth, since the Twelve Constellations were way too overemphasized… Just like they would be in a planetarium show where the presenter wanted to make sure they’d be noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/136 "2011-04-29T19:42:07Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > HERE BE UNTAGGED SPOILERS… That interpretation is only possible if you completely missed the point that He-Doesn’t-Like-To-Be-Called that had done all that before, as was doing so again. But the past times – including on “Earth” where the Final Five recalled stories of Head!Angel type visions before the end – what he was doing _didn’t work_. He’s not an infallable god. … And I’m not particularly sure we have any certainty that he was the _only_ god, so I’m leery of labeling him “unopposed”. Heck, we don’t really know what the “gods of Kobol” were, other than Head!Six seemed to regard them as categorically different than He-Doesn’t-etc-etc. Moreover, anyone can easily fanwank a “Sufficiently Advanced Technology” figleaf on the whole thing, which pretty much puts it exactly where B5 was in terms of sci-fi hardness. Well, without telepathy and telekinesis, so maybe BSG more like jello to B5 as ambrosia salad. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/137 "2011-04-30T06:48:28Z")
The nebula caused that Dylan song to resonate through the walls of the ship, but the only people who could hear it were Cylons. Magically returned to life Starbuck plays the Dylan song from memory with the help of a stranger nobody else can see. The Dylan song notes correspond somehow to coordinates where earth is located. The only human/cylon hybrid child draws random dots that, when covered with transparent blank music notation sheets, correspond to the Dylan song. The moral of the series is that Dylan is what It wants to be called. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/138 "2011-04-30T14:21:52Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > The moral of the series is that Dylan is what It wants to be called. “You can call me Bobby, and you can call me Zimmy…” ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/139 "2011-04-30T14:26:05Z")
I tried to get into BSG. I bought the first season. Watched a few episodes, it was the acting that kind of turned me off. Starbucks character came across as a hard ass but her acting didn’t convince me, being one of the main characters once that happens the damage was done for me. I might give it another shot some time. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645/140 "2011-04-30T16:04:50Z")
I agree completely with **Lemur866** ’s interpretation of the whole thing. I think that the problem with intellectualizing and rationalizing divine intervention is that you always run into a major wall of “wtf was the point of that, if God is all-seeing/knowing/burrito-eating?” The thing is, is that human understanding of God(s) and interaction with God (or the idea of a God) is complicated, messy, and full of plot holes and inconsistencies. But, it’s still central to the lives of most people on the planet, and has been for basically our whole existence. I have no problem with a series that reflects that complication and projects it into the real (imaginary) world. Plus, as has been said before, based on the first miniseries (which ended, IIRC, with Adama talking about giving the people something to have faith in), and all the names being named after Greek gods, and the 12 tribes of Israel reference, it was pretty clear from the get-go, in my opinion, that we were dealing with a story of biblical, and not technical, proportions. As a hijack, since there are a bunch of BSG-watchers in here, what did people think about the whole ‘All Along The Watchtower’ portion of the story? There were definitely bad episodes in the series, but this little plot point was the one thing that just ripped me right out of the story. I just don’t ‘get’ what the point was. It was like an easter egg for the viewers, but then blown up and made the entire point of a few episodes. What’s the analysis? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-sucks/579645.md?page=8)