# Battlestar Galactica; "The Ties That Bind" 18 April '08 (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966 "2008-04-19T02:04:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/61 "2008-04-20T22:17:31Z")
I have to agree that Tory isn’t evil. Once Callie showed she was willing to kill her own kid, she was fundamentally unstable and the only realistic way to handle the situation was to get rid of her. Tory did what she needed to do to rescue the kid. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/62 "2008-04-20T22:48:10Z")
Tory DID rescue the kid. Both she and Nick were already safely behind the glass, with Callie alone in the airlock, when she hit the button. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/63 "2008-04-20T22:58:32Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] I have to agree that Tory isn’t evil. Once Callie showed she was willing to kill her own kid, she was fundamentally unstable and the only realistic way to handle the situation was to get rid of her. Tory did what she needed to do to rescue the kid. [/QUOTE] Really? What part of ejecting someone out an airlock isn’t evil? Would anyone believe that Tory, the Chief and the XO are ALL Cylons instead of maybe Cally being out of her mind on drugs and angry wife rage? Seems to me the launch tubes are becoming the equivalent of the Holodeck or the Transporter from Star Trek. Basically what amounts to an incredibly dangerous piece of equipment with little to no safety protocols. For example, under what circumstances would I want to have the ability to open the outer bulkhead while I’m INSIDE the launch bay? I mean if I was on board the USS Nimitz, could I just launch shit off the forward catapults? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/64 "2008-04-20T23:11:21Z")
Yeah, pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/65 "2008-04-20T23:14:29Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] I have to agree that Tory isn’t evil. [/QUOTE] She _did_ cover Nick’s eyes when she defenestrated his Mother. I was touched. :rolleyes: I must agree with my associate msmith537. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/66 "2008-04-20T23:25:48Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] For example, under what circumstances would I want to have the ability to open the outer bulkhead while I’m INSIDE the launch bay? [/QUOTE] So, maybe Starbuck siphons some gas from Apollo’s Viper. Can’t really call up the Launch Officer and say, “Hey, I just ripped off Apollo. Open the door.” ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/67 "2008-04-20T23:30:26Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] Really? What part of ejecting someone out an airlock isn’t evil? Would anyone believe that Tory, the Chief and the XO are ALL Cylons instead of maybe Cally being out of her mind on drugs and angry wife rage? [/QUOTE] She beat the chief on the head repeatedly with a huge wrench. This is the kind of thing that is likely to kill a person. She was about to put her CHILD out the airlock. If I were Tory, I’d have every expectation that even if I could talk her out of it right now, she’d kill that child and then the Cylons at the next chance she got. So. Four dead (including an innocent child) or one? Which is the greater evil? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/68 "2008-04-20T23:45:46Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] Which is the greater evil? [/QUOTE] The lesser evil would be to smack her and take the kid to the Chief. Extra Evile points added is she gets to sleep with him now. 🙂 I’m sure we will have some character and plot development about her actions. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/69 "2008-04-20T23:47:04Z")
How about “Hey, Space Marines, I got the perp trapped, come and get her” as an option? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/70 "2008-04-20T23:47:17Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] Really? What part of ejecting someone out an airlock isn’t evil? [/QUOTE] Ask Laura Roslin. Seriously, if nothing else, _Battlestar Galactica_ has established that the line between good and evil is not easily delineated. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/71 "2008-04-20T23:54:59Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] How about “Hey, Space Marines, I got the perp trapped, come and get her” as an option? [/QUOTE] Um, yeah, cuz then she’d go blab about how they’re Cylons and you can’t bet the farm on “oh, they’ll just think she’s crazy” you know. I’m not saying it was the 100% Best Option Ever, I’m just saying that I don’t think that her decision to do that makes Tory evil. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/72 "2008-04-21T00:25:56Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] I’m just saying that I don’t think that her decision to do that makes Tory evil. [/QUOTE] I gotta hang with “killing someone to save yourself” is evil. Think about a _Bonanza_ episode where the “good bad guy” kills someone to protect himself. You think Pa Cartwright would put up with that stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/73 "2008-04-21T00:38:07Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] For example, under what circumstances would I want to have the ability to open the outer bulkhead while I’m INSIDE the launch bay? ? [/QUOTE] Actually, there are a lot of possibilities - all thoroughly fanwank-tastic, of course, but still. For one thing, we’ve established that the launch bays are basically just big airlocks - that means you can _use_ them as big airlocks, if you want. If other nearby airlocks were damaged, and someone had to do an EVA on a nearby patch of hull, egress through the launch bays might be one of the approved protocols. (Of course, you’d expect them to depressurize the bay more slowly, first). Another possibility: What if a Viper crashes somehow inside the launch tube, on its way out? Damage control teams responding to the accident might want control over the outer doors in that case. Remember that we’ve seen Galactica’s design is all about multiple, redundant control systems - if something fraked up inside the tube, it makes sense that they’d want to give repair crews control over the whole system without relying on their launch control officer, or whatever they call him. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/74 "2008-04-21T00:52:27Z")
Lorne Greene’s starring role is why the old show was nicknamed “Battlestar Ponderosa”. The “But she \*needed \* killin’!” argument isn’t bad, though. Works in Texas, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/75 "2008-04-21T01:19:25Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] I gotta hang with “killing someone to save yourself” is evil. Think about a _Bonanza_ episode where the “good bad guy” kills someone to protect himself. You think Pa Cartwright would put up with that stuff? [/QUOTE] Killing someone to save yourself, three other people, and a child. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/76 "2008-04-21T01:47:07Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] Killing someone to save yourself, three other people, and a child. [/QUOTE] I’ll plead Religious Teaching: Jews can violate any of the 614 commandments to save a life but for two: Murder and incest. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/77 "2008-04-21T01:47:45Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] Killing someone to save yourself, three other people, and a child. [/QUOTE] People? What people? ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/78 "2008-04-21T02:07:49Z")
I think Tori is wicked, conniving, and - oh what’s that word I’m thinking of?? Oh yes, evil! I’m willing to concede that our new found Cylon friends are solely interested in their own self preservation and Tori’s actions can be justified as self defense. But they had a pact, no humans harmed, and Tori is just the first to break that pact. There is no telling at this point just whose side the final cylons are on. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/79 "2008-04-21T02:15:26Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] She beat the chief on the head repeatedly with a huge wrench. [/quote] After she found out he was a Cylon, a race of machines that are in the act of committing genocide on the human race. Even if she believed he was a sleeper, don’t forget the last sleeper (Boomer) tried to kill Admiral Adama. It’s easy to forget that murderer/ genocide bit when we, as the audience, get to see their side of it. Cally has no such perspective. She hates Cylons with good reason, added to which, her whole marriage is a lie and her baby is… what? > [@](#): > > This is the kind of thing that is likely to kill a person. Yes, but would it kill a Cylon? And, you know, who cares? > [@](#): > > She was about to put her CHILD out the airlock She wasn’t sure if her child was a human, Cylon, or what. She was suffering from post-partum depression, drug addiction, and serious personal distress. People do crazy shit when they’re in a situation as dire as that. They don’t deserve to be summarily executed for it. Tory had talked her out of her suicide. If Tory wasn’t a homicidal Cylon, perhaps Cally would have been convinced to rethink what she had overheard and it could have been OK. Tory was not interested in that option. > [@](#): > > If I were Tory, I’d have every expectation that even if I could talk her out of it right now, she’d kill that child and then the Cylons at the next chance she got. So. Four dead (including an innocent child) or one? Which is the greater evil? Let’s not kid ourselves that Tory cares about Nick per se. I’m sure it’s a Cylon interest in the possibility that Nick is a hybrid. I agree that Tory acted out of perceived self-presevation, but not sure if that doesn’t make her evil anyway. As, about the airlock-- remember that Cally had to steal the key out of Tyrol’s pocket in order to enable the switch she used to open the airlock. Without that key, which I imagine only people with the rank of Chief or higher would have, I don’t think she would have been able to open the airlock from inside it. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966/80 "2008-04-21T02:18:25Z")
Yes, people. One of the driving themes of BSG is the blurry line between man and machine. The cylons have emotions, are biological in nature, etc etc [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/battlestar-galactica-the-ties-that-bind-18-april-08-open-spoilers/445966.md?page=5)