# Bay Area to Bush:Welcome to dinner; now please choke on it.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2006, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831 "2006-04-23T04:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/81 "2006-04-24T21:44:41Z")
Oh, and to be clear, do you think that all persons who engage in patriotic protests that involve breaking the law _should_ be arrested? For the law they broke and not the fact they were protesting, of course. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/82 "2006-04-24T21:49:59Z")
The “midterm” elections will be coming up soon. If anyone is angry at how things are going in the government, then VOTE. Throw the bums out. If you/we “unelect” enough of the people giving us heartburn, then maybe the new crew will get the message. To steal from Boss Tweed, vote early and vote often (just a joke) ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/83 "2006-04-24T21:53:14Z")
I was just going to lurk through this thread but for this comment: > [@John Mace](#): > > **BobLibDem** : To further understand your definition of patritotism, would it be “an act of patriotism” for a pro-life group to block Ruth Bader Ginsberg’s vehicle or to try to prevent her from getting to the Supreme Court to exercise her duties? John, was the President exercising his duties as Commander in Chief? I may have misread the article, but it seemed to me he was on his way to a fundraiser/reception. Also, I think it’s important to note, _he wasn’t stopped and the road was not blocked. The three who tried to do so were arrested._ Aside from that, yes, I would say that right to life demonstrators have the right to gather and protest Ruth Bader Ginsberg when she attends events. I’d be surprised to find out they hadn’t done so already. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/84 "2006-04-24T21:59:26Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > On not sure how the immidiacy of the police’s presence makes any difference, unless you mean to imply that the police would not come, that the woman’s condition was such that the delay for the police’s arrival would be problematic, or that the protesters would somehow prevent her from contacting them. I am saying that the very **necessity** of changing the _status quo ante_ distinguishes the cases, as well as the outcome of a “successful” blockade. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/85 "2006-04-24T22:02:39Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Oh, and to be clear, do you think that all persons who engage in patriotic protests that involve breaking the law _should_ be arrested? For the law they broke and not the fact they were protesting, of course. they **should** be **prepared** for arrest. (ie, put your bail bondsman on notice, to minimize your holding time) whether as a matter of public policy all who invoke civil disobedience should, in the wide discretion of the cop on the beat (which is huge) be arrested, is quite a different question. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/86 "2006-04-24T22:04:00Z")
_Throw the bums out._ from your mouth, as my grandma would say, to god’s ear ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/87 "2006-04-24T22:36:53Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > they **should** be **prepared** for arrest. (ie, put your bail bondsman on notice, to minimize your holding time) > > whether as a matter of public policy all who invoke civil disobedience should, in the wide discretion of the cop on the beat (which is huge) be arrested, is quite a different question. Is this a no to the statement that those who break the law to make a point should be arrested? Are you appealing for leniency from that cop with ‘wide’ discretion (all laws are fuzzy?) for the protestors, or not? Just liberal protesters? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/88 "2006-04-24T22:53:43Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Is this a no to the statement that those who break the law to make a point should be arrested? Are you appealing for leniency from that cop with ‘wide’ discretion (all laws are fuzzy?) for the protestors, or not? Just liberal protesters? if they are not arrested, the point of civil disobedience is lost. The idea of civil disobedience is to “witness”, not to oppress. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/89 "2006-04-24T22:54:46Z")
to clarify: if the authorities refrain from arrest, they sabotage the civil disobedience. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/90 "2006-04-24T22:56:32Z")
a subtext:their arrest should be conducted in the same civil spirit as the disobedience–ie, the redwood protestors who chained themselves together and were maced in the eyes while being unwelded have a beef… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/91 "2006-04-24T22:59:09Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > John, was the President exercising his duties as Commander in Chief? I’m not sure, but probably not. He was supposed to meet with some non-government officials at the Hoover Institute, which is on the Stanford campus although it is not officially part of Stanford (Hoover “fellows” aren’t Stanford faculty). BTW, if you mean was he specifically acting as the Commander in Chief (as opposed to other presidential duties), I’d say definitely not. > [@](#): > > I may have misread the article, but it seemed to me he was on his way to a fundraiser/reception. Also, I think it’s important to note, _he wasn’t stopped and the road was not blocked. The three who tried to do so were arrested._ \*\*Bob \*\*was responding to the OP, who claimed the road was blocked. So let’s assume the hypthetical of road blackage for both GWB and RBG. > [@](#): > > Aside from that, yes, I would say that right to life demonstrators have the right to gather and protest Ruth Bader Ginsberg when she attends events. I’d be surprised to find out they hadn’t done so already. I don’t think anyone on this board would deny the right of any group simply to protest. My question to \*\*Bob \*\*was whether he would consider the pro-life protest to be “an act of patriotism”, which is what he called the anti-Bush protest. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/92 "2006-04-24T23:07:48Z")
Well, I can’t answer for Bob, but I certainly would. Exercising one’s right to assemble and protest is patriotic. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/93 "2006-04-24T23:18:19Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > if they are not arrested, the point of civil disobedience is lost. The idea of civil disobedience is to “witness”, not to oppress. Alrighty then. The post to which this was a response was not as clear. Students have a right to assemble at the sides of the road: check. Students have the ‘right’ to be arrested for sitting in the road: check. Bush has the right to go run and hide from his constituents: check. (?) It sounds like everything is in order here. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/94 "2006-04-24T23:22:44Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Alrighty then. The post to which this was a response was not as clear. > > Students have a right to assemble at the sides of the road: check. > Students have the ‘right’ to be arrested for sitting in the road: check. > Bush has the right to go run and hide from his constituents: check. (?) > > It sounds like everything is in order here. of course he has a “right” to run an hide–we just want fifteen seconds on the evening news of him showing his bare ass heading up the road… ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/95 "2006-04-24T23:29:16Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > of course he has a “right” to run an hide–we just want fifteen seconds on the evening news of him showing his bare ass heading up the road… Eww, there’s an image I didn’t need; thanks a lot. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/96 "2006-04-24T23:43:09Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Eww, there’s an image I didn’t need; thanks a lot. don’t thank me, thank his personal trainer…(Richard Simmons–this is a state secret, so it’s just between us…) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/97 "2006-04-24T23:47:34Z")
Showing your ass, is, of course, a “term of art” _Web Results 1 - 10 of about 25,500 for “showing your ass”_ [http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q="showing+your+ass"&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8](http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=%22showing+your+ass%22&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/98 "2006-04-25T00:01:02Z")
If I may ask a question . . . ? The _Stanford Daily_ article implies that all of the action took place on the Stanford campus. Stanford is a private university and as such, don’t they retain some sort of control over their streets? In other words, aren’t any assertions that the protestors blocked _public_ roadways factually incorrect? I might be moving the debate away from philosophical discussions regarding nonviolent protest, and more towards the motor vehicle code. But as a point of order, let’s get our facts straight before proceeding to the debate. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/99 "2006-04-25T00:12:34Z")
> [@Airblairxxx](#): > > If I may ask a question . . . ? > > The _Stanford Daily_ article implies that all of the action took place on the Stanford campus. > > Stanford is a private university and as such, don’t they retain some sort of control over their streets? In other words, aren’t any assertions that the protestors blocked _public_ roadways factually incorrect? > I might be moving the debate away from philosophical discussions regarding nonviolent protest, and more towards the motor vehicle code. But as a point of order, let’s get our facts straight before proceeding to the debate. I think you correct, altho in the instant case, we may without much risk assume that the fascist trustees of that second-rate bay area institution (forever overshadowed by the intellectual stature of Berkeley, and moreover piss-poor football players) granted bubble boy an easement for transit to the belly of the beast. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831/100 "2006-04-25T00:38:26Z")
> [@Airblairxxx](#): > > If I may ask a question . . . ? > > The _Stanford Daily_ article implies that all of the action took place on the Stanford campus. > > Stanford is a private university and as such, don’t they retain some sort of control over their streets? In other words, aren’t any assertions that the protestors blocked _public_ roadways factually incorrect? > I might be moving the debate away from philosophical discussions regarding nonviolent protest, and more towards the motor vehicle code. But as a point of order, let’s get our facts straight before proceeding to the debate. I don’t see what difference that makes. Stanford is private property, yes, but it’s not owned by the students. If the university approved of the visit, the students have no right to block access. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bay-area-to-bush-welcome-to-dinner-now-please-choke-on-it/353831.md?page=6)