# BBQ marinade leads to passive accusation of racism by racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 16, 2008, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186 "2008-10-16T12:59:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/21 "2008-10-17T03:21:51Z")
But do you eat your hamburgers on white or brown rolls? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/22 "2008-10-17T03:39:33Z")
He was being racist because he automatically assumed that your problem with this Ainsley character was that he was black. That, to him, was the most obvious conclusion. His own racism caused him to assume that you were racist. BUT–he did attempt to counteract your percieved racism anyway. He did it in a clumsy way, but his intentions were good. I think the guy probably does have some genuine racist feelings, but is ashamed of them. He is not trying to spread his racism, and in fact is trying to reduce racism by signalling that racist comments are unacceptable to him. (even if they weren’t actually racist comments.) So, if my interpretations are correct, props to the ex-con. And nothing you did, **jjiimm** , was racist at all. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/23 "2008-10-17T03:52:22Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > He was being racist because he automatically assumed that your problem with this Ainsley character was that he was black. That, to him, was the most obvious conclusion. His own racism caused him to assume that you were racist. I don’t know that the other guy _automatically_ assumed **jjimm** was being racist. He may well have thought that that was the most likely reason for **jjimm** ’s statement. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/24 "2008-10-17T05:49:17Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > As my shopping was being scanned, the guy behind the checkout, who looked like an ex con on day release, held up the bottle and asked “what’s that then?” about my marinade. > … > And suddenly it dawned on me: Ainsley, see, is [black](http://www.ainsley-harriott.com/). Two points of question then I’ve gotta ask ya- why would you jump to the issue of race first? It “dawned on you” that he was defending him because he was black- is that really the case? And 2- and this is the fun question that I noticed you didn’t mention in your OP- what race was he? Because I liked the British explanation of “that lot” but I can’t help but feel that’s a whoosh. Yet, that’s probably how I would have interpreted it sadly. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/25 "2008-10-17T06:51:45Z")
> [@RoOsh](#): > > Two points of question then I’ve gotta ask ya- why would you jump to the issue of race first? I didn’t. I was puzzled for a good five minutes before I found the only explanation that made sense. > [@](#): > > And 2- and this is the fun question that I noticed you didn’t mention in your OP- what race was he? White, English, prison-style tattoos on his arms and hands, ~45 but his name badge said he was an “assistant”, which made me think of rehabilitation. He was also slightly aggressive with other customers - “no no no! You put the card in too early!” and seemed slightly out of touch with the foodstuffs he was scanning, which made me think he’d been out of mainstream society for a while. A supposition I know, but it would make sense if he had been inside, as, if he were defending black people, that’s probably how he’d have to phrase it to other white people behind bars. Lots of assumptions there I know! ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/26 "2008-10-17T07:00:37Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > it’s a better word than Asian, because anyone from Arabia to India to Japan is Asian, whereas when I say “Oriental”, the meaning is clear. What about East Asian? Doesn’t that work just as well without pissing off most people? I’ve heard that, as well as Southeast Asian and South Asian. Don’t think I’ve heard West Asian, though. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/27 "2008-10-17T07:02:04Z")
Funnily enough, “oriental” isn’t offensive over here - or in the Orient in fact! ETA: [452,000 instances of “oriental” on Google Hong Kong](http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=zh-TW&q=oriental&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E5%B0%8B&meta=cr%3DcountryHK&aq=f&oq=) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/28 "2008-10-17T09:01:56Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Hell, my wife is half black and half Oriental, and I’ve been called a racist on this board. You just can’t please some people. In fact, someone probably just took offense to my use of the term “Oriental” to describe a person, but it’s a better word than Asian, because anyone from Arabia to India to Japan is Asian, whereas when I say “Oriental”, the meaning is clear. > [@jjimm](#): > > Funnily enough, “oriental” isn’t offensive over here - or in the Orient in fact! I’d have said that it’s a word that’s generally avoided here, though, even if not offensive as such. [First result on Google News at the moment.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/7673675.stm) ‘Asian’, however, is commonly used and interpreted as meaning south Asian. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/29 "2008-10-17T11:51:14Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > [First result on Google News at the moment.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/7673675.stm) FFS. Typically inscrutable. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/30 "2008-10-17T12:11:26Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > FFS. > > Typically inscrutable. What - me, the Beeb, or Google? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/31 "2008-10-17T12:15:19Z")
I would say neither of you were being racist. You were treating Ainsley Harriot as just another person, instead of a BLACK PERSON!!!1111 (since after all, you wouldn’t have said something like that if you were keeping the fact he’s black at the forefront of your mind). There’s nothing wrong with that, even though unfortunately it was misunderstood. The checkout guy was just trying to say black people as a group aren’t any different/worse than any other group, and probably just didn’t give enough thought to the interaction to add a long disclaimer about how Not all black people are alike and I swear I have black friends and so on and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/32 "2008-10-17T12:16:10Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > What - me, the Beeb, or Google? 😛 No, those wily Mongols! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/33 "2008-10-17T12:20:22Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > No, those wily Mongols! 😉 Ahhh, that lot. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/34 "2008-10-17T12:25:44Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Ahhh, that lot. Watch it; some of my best friends are Mongols. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/35 "2008-10-17T14:02:26Z")
As an irritating person, I am completely offended that the whole lot of you don’t recognize that the clerk is biased against irritating people. Well, on behalf of the irritating community, let me say that we’ve had enough. We don’t need **jjimm** buying our products, and we don’t need a clerk classifying us as a ‘lot’. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/36 "2008-10-17T14:11:08Z")
I have trawled through YouTube trying to find Ainsley being irritating, but he is in fact quite charming in most clips. However, he’s [slightly annoying](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYwoiPo-kPc&feature=related) in this one. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/37 "2008-10-19T13:24:56Z")
I was told that I was “A fucking good bloke for a Whitey”,no matter how hard I tried I couldn’t bring my self to feel offended inspite of the totally obvious racism in the remark. ---
**Author:** ![Incref](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@Incref](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incref)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/38 "2008-10-20T12:31:51Z")
I find Ainsley Harriet rather charming, though obviously I’m in the minority. This thread made me think of his amusing [packet of sausages](http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/ainsley-prick-p1.php) (fake but still funny). ---
**Author:** ![Grey\_area](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grey\_area](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey_area)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186/39 "2008-10-20T14:16:56Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Hell, my wife is half black and half Oriental, and I’ve been called a racist on this board. You just can’t please some people. In fact, someone probably just took offense to my use of the term “Oriental” to describe a person, but it’s a better word than Asian, because anyone from Arabia to India to Japan is Asian, whereas when I say “Oriental”, the meaning is clear. > > In my mind, nobody has a right to call me a racist except my wife - and that hardly ever happens :p. I’m Asian and my SO is Black/White. Can I call you a racist? Heh. I don’t know why you were called a racist or if it was justified but “my spouse is [insert minority]” is not much different from “but my best friend is Black”. And yes, we do (or I do at least) prefer Asian over Oriental. Under your argument Oriental (eastern) is just as ambiguous if not more so. In the US and Canada, it is generally understood that “Asian” refers to East Asians if not specified. Just like how in the UK “Asian” usually refers to South Asians. Sorry for the hijack though, I don’t want to this this to turn into another thread where a bunch of White Americans insist that I be called ‘Oriental’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bbq-marinade-leads-to-passive-accusation-of-racism-by-racist/468186.md?page=1)