# BCC suggests Jessica Lynch story greatly exaggerated, if not faked **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548 "2003-05-15T21:43:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/21 "2003-05-16T12:18:41Z")
Gotcha ya. 20:15 CET on BBC2 over here. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/22 "2003-05-16T13:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace\_Face \* > \*\*Staged? You want staged? Try to find a wide angle shot of that big Saddam statue coming down in Baghdad. Not counting US troops and the press, there were probably less than 100 Iraqis present in that huge plaza. There’s even some (debatable) evidence many were Chalabi loyalists brought in just for the occasion. But it would be hard to know that… instead we were fed lots of carefully framed close-ups. > > It’s interesting how the media “knows” not to provide such context. > > (A link for those interested: [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm) ) \*\* This is done frequently in the news. I recall once when (then) President Reagan came to Oklahoma. Myself and some friends went to watch him speak. The crowd was not that large and I was suprised to see that basically ‘applause’ signs were being used. At that time Ron had a slogan of “America, Go for it!” When he said this the aids with the applause signs screwed up and didn’t hold up the signs. So he did another take and the signs went up and the ‘crowd’ went wild. Guess what was on the news? **TwistofFate** My guess would be that they special forces would want to study the film later to see several things. One would be to make sure that the troops were doing what they were supposed to do. Also if things did go badly to study the film to see how the operation could be improved. Then of course there is that whole propaganda film thing. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/23 "2003-05-16T14:40:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*The BBC must have reliable sources, otherwise it wouldn’t have run the story. > > To be fair, we haven’t seen any hard evidence that this story wasn’t a hoax. We believe everything the TV and newspapers feed us, but unless you were on the ground when it happened, you can’t really say for _certain_ what happened. > > I’m have an open mind on this… \*\* Just like the New York Times, right? ---
**Author:** ![whatami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/85f322/32.png) [@whatami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatami)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/24 "2003-05-16T15:29:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*The BBC must have reliable sources, otherwise it wouldn’t have run the story. > > To be fair, we haven’t seen any hard evidence that this story wasn’t a hoax. We believe everything the TV and newspapers feed us, but unless you were on the ground when it happened, you can’t really say for _certain_ what happened. > > I’m have an open mind on this… \*\* Was anyone here on the ground when we landed on the moon? I guess we don’t know for _certain_ that it happened. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/25 "2003-05-16T17:45:31Z")
Well, yes thats correct, whatami - of course we don’t know for absolute certain. But, in the case of the moon landing, there is enough evidence IMO to prove that it did happen. I don’t know if the Lynch story is the whole truth or not - I’m simply keeping an open mind. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/26 "2003-05-16T17:57:04Z")
[The Toronto Star](http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1051643375850) already ran a story on this as well. ---
**Author:** ![whatami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/85f322/32.png) [@whatami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatami)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/27 "2003-05-16T19:03:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*Well, yes thats correct, whatami - of course we don’t know for absolute certain. But, in the case of the moon landing, there is enough evidence IMO to prove that it did happen. > > I don’t know if the Lynch story is the whole truth or not - I’m simply keeping an open mind. \*\* I’ll agree with that… I don’t really think it was staged, but I suppose anything is possible. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/28 "2003-05-16T19:20:06Z")
At least with the moon landings, [we brought back stuff](http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=17) that was verified to be non-terrestrial in origin. I’m with **Zoe** here – given all the other lies and propaganda we’ve been given by the Administration about this war, the notion that Lynch’s rescue was exaggerated/overplayed “for dramatic effect” would be par for the course. ---
**Author:** ![coyasicanbe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bcef8e/32.png) [@coyasicanbe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coyasicanbe)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/29 "2003-05-16T19:30:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*At least with the moon landings, [we brought back stuff](http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=17) that was verified to be non-terrestrial in origin. > > I’m with **Zoe** here – given all the other lies and propaganda we’ve been given by the Administration about this war, the notion that Lynch’s rescue was exaggerated/overplayed “for dramatic effect” would be par for the course. \*\* Well, we brought back “stuff,” that would be Jessica Lynch, from this little outing as well. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/30 "2003-05-16T19:59:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by coyasicanbe \* > \*\*Well, we brought back “stuff,” that would be Jessica Lynch, from this little outing as well. \*\* Who very conveniently has no recolletction of the incident… Damn that amnesia, aint she a bitch? Sam ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/31 "2003-05-16T20:14:32Z")
Way convenient. Now we have reports that she was treated like ‘one of the family’ after it’s pretty certain she won’t say otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/32 "2003-05-16T20:59:17Z")
Why would the Saddam Fedayeen (the Iraqi lawyer and his wife who told troops where Lynch was described seeing Fedayeen guarding her) that were there let the Iraqi doctors be nice to Lynch? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/33 "2003-05-16T21:23:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace\_Face \* > \*\*Staged? You want staged? Try to find a wide angle shot of that big Saddam statue coming down in Baghdad. Not counting US troops and the press, there were probably less than 100 Iraqis present in that huge plaza. There’s even some (debatable) evidence many were Chalabi loyalists brought in just for the occasion. But it would be hard to know that… instead we were fed lots of carefully framed close-ups. > > It’s interesting how the media “knows” not to provide such context. > > (A link for those interested: [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm) ) \*\* This is one of those little tidbits of conspiracy theory floating around the net that makes less and less sense the more you think about it. I mean really, do people really think that someone went around Baghdad that day handing out flyers from the local Kinkos saying “Saddam statue destruction at 2:00”? The people of Baghdad had a lot on their minds at the time, namely staying out of firefights and tracking down food and water. This wasn’t Woodstock – it was a small, and quite possibly even mostly spontaneous tearing down of a statue. I think people confuse cause and effect – the event played good on TV (I watched the original on Webcam) so it got a lot of play and became iconic which is just as easy to believe as someone saying “We need something iconic that will play good on TV, let’s tear down a statue.” As you note, it would be interesting for the media to know not to provide context – unless they were the ones making the framing decision a) because it makes for better TV and b) because a wide angle shot doesn’t have any detail. (Take a look at the pictures in the web page cited to see what I mean.) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/34 "2003-05-16T21:41:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\*Good old shoe… \*\* 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/35 "2003-05-19T00:23:57Z")
OK, I saw the documentary on the BBC. While not presenting things as dead-on facts, it was pretty damn convincing in that the Jessica Lynch rescue was staged. An advance team had visited the town a day before, making enquiries if there were any Fedayeen left in the hospital. They were repeatedly told that there weren’t. They had indeed used blanks when they entered the hospital. It was interesting to see how a journalist at the media camp in Quatar (I think it’s in Quatar, anyway, could be Kuwait?) got banned from asking any more questions after he asked what the purpose of being there was if all they were fed were spin. They went into the issue about the capitulation of various cities as well: often, the cities were reported “under control” days, even weeks before this was actually the case. As excuses, “civil uprisings” were used, where in fact these uprisings never took place before they were announced. Of course, if you yell hard enough that there has been a civil uprising against Saddam in Basra, it turns out that people will actually leave their houses and, well, revolt. The sequence of events then becomes less relevant: after all, you got the images to prove your claim, right? It stinks to high heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/36 "2003-05-19T00:25:42Z")
Oh, and one Aussie commentator actually said “Savaing Private Ryan”, when referring to the rescue of Lynch. It was unintentional, but it was a hoot nonetheless. In a rather ironic way. The movie “Wag the Dog” gets a whole new meaning, let me tell you that. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/37 "2003-05-19T00:50:55Z")
How interesting, Coldie. I wonder if there’ll be even more evidence forthcoming. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/38 "2003-05-19T02:05:04Z")
Good God. I see that there are some seriously drooling morons here, willing to believe that the rescue was ‘staged’ (Meaning that the rescue wasn’t needed, and was a pure PR stunt). You fools will believe anything, won’t you? As long as there is enough of a Anti-BUsh/America slant to the story, and it comes from a ‘reliable’ source like the BBC (or NYT?), you idiots eat it, hook, line, and sinker. You blindly accept that because some fool Iraqi said the US forces were using blanks, then by God, they were using blanks. Some Iraqi said, ‘It’s all clear, come on in!’, so the Americans should have lowered their weapons and sauntered on in. :rolleyes: Dipshit morons, the lot of you. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/39 "2003-05-19T02:44:14Z")
This observer argues that [the story about the rifles being loaded with blanks is false](http://www.wilbursblog.blogspot.com/), which casts doubt on other aspects reported by the witnesses. He also says that BBC should have realized that the story about the blanks was incorrect. Does anyone know enough about weapons to confirm or refute his point? > [@](#): > > The BBC alleges that…the American troops fired blank ammunition during the rescue in order to make things seem more dramatic for the benefit of the cameras… > > Now, a few firearms facts for the uninitiated. > > American troops use three main infantry weapons. > > First, there is the M16A2, a modern derivative of the old Vietnam era M16. > > Secondly, there is the M4 carbine, a shortened version of the M16, often used by special forces troops. > > Third, there is the Minimi Light Machine Gun. > > None of these weapons can be converted from firing blanks to live, or back again, in a speedy manner. > > Blank ammunition, when fired in these three weapons, is not powerful enough to force the weapons mechanism through its full cycle of operations. Because there is no live projectile, the build up of gas in the barrel is much less. When the weapon fires, there is no way that the mechanism will re-cock and chamber a fresh round. > > Fire a blank round, and the weapon will stop firing after the first round is expended. > > …so for training situations, a blank firing attachment (BFA) is used. The BFA consists of a cumbersome mechanical device bolted on to the end of the barrel… > > The BFA is awkward to get into place and even more difficult to remove. Frequently, it requires the use of pliers or some similar tool to affect its removal. After pro-longed firing with blank ammunition, the BFA is so hot that it must be left to cool before it can be removed… > > Now, back to the BBC report. > > According to their witness, blanks where fired during the assault for dramatic effect. > > If this were so, the American troops would be put in an awkward situation. Suppose, in the midst of this staged event, some Iraqi troops or Fedayeen irregulars appeared? How would they defend themselves? Clearly, converting the weapons from blank to live, in the heat of a battle, would be disastrous. It would take, at best, 2-3 minutes to remove a BFA, then vital more seconds in order to replace the belt or magazine of blank ammunition with live. In the dark, it would be very easy to get the blank and live rounds mixed up, too. > > It is very hard to imagine how any Special Forces soldiers would agree to enter a combat zone with their weapons primed for blank ammunition… > > The BFA is large and brightly coloured. It’s a safety feature; a visible way of proving in training that no one is pointing live ammunition at you by mistake. > > I don’t have the video footage of the rescue to hand, but I do recall seeing it. I didn’t see any weapons sporting BFAs. > > Furthermore, fired blank shell casings look very different to live ones. Blank shell casings have a crimped end to them that is still clearly visible after the round is fired and discarded. So if the BBC wants to prove its story, it can visit the scene of the rescue and produce some discarded blank shell casings. Unless, it wants us to believe that the American troops picked them all up. In the dark. Behind enemy lines. In a war zone. > > So how do blank rounds work in the movies? Well, the weapons used are not real… > > …the BBC’s witnesses cannot be trusted. > > And the BBC has made a huge error that a couple of quick phone calls could have put right… > > Early on in the story [BBC] make the astonishing statement that “Witnesses told us that the special forces knew that the Iraqi military had fled a day before they swooped on the hospital.” > > According to the BBC, the witnesses somehow magically know what American Special Forces knew or thought. How they managed this effort of mental telepathy is not explained. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548/40 "2003-05-19T03:21:38Z")
I had hoped that the airing of this report on TV would clear up some things. Now we have the great debate thread in which the viewers state that the show proved nothing: “Nothing to see here, move on” and **Coldfire’s** take that the show contains damming evidence. 😕 😕 😕 Anyways, I’ll need better proof than the word of a couple of defeated Iraquis before I swallow any conspiracy theories on this one. If **december’s** technical information about firing blanks in these weapons is correct, that would be another reason to question the BBC’s sources. (Not that I doubt december, it’s simply something I don’t know myself.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcc-suggests-jessica-lynch-story-greatly-exaggerated-if-not-faked/175548.md?page=3)