# BCS Championship Game--ROLL TIDE **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 7, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371 "2013-01-07T18:00:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/121 "2013-01-09T18:15:14Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > … I never said, or even implied, that Alabama was a shitty school. I just said that the average Alabama fan couldn’t care less either way. I’m sure you have a cite for this, right? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/122 "2013-01-09T18:17:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Sorry, I meant to respond to that point in my last post: I think you’re right about this part. I also think this is a better way of stating the point than arguing about the vagaries of conference geography. Fair enough, but the geography has influenced the cultural role of the SEC, so it is relevant. > [@Marley23](#): > > Which is a way of saying Arkansas isn’t in the Southeast. 😉 Or that it’s on the border of the Southeast and the Southwest. But, not a big deal. > [@Labrador Deceiver](#): > > No, I just addressed the most glowing of the accolades. I’d say the Forbes ranking of seventh amongst public schools is more impressive, but YMMV. > [@Labrador Deceiver](#): > > Besides which, I never said, or even implied, that Alabama was a shitty school. I just said that the average Alabama fan couldn’t care less either way. If the result isn’t the university not caring, then what’s the problem? College sports fans all care passionately about their school’s sports teams, that’s what makes them sports fans. There aren’t millions of fans rooting for academics on Saturdays, I assure you. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/123 "2013-01-09T18:17:03Z")
Poor Arkansas - not a single region wants to claim it! ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/124 "2013-01-09T18:28:56Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > I’m sure you have a cite for this, right? What would you accept as a cite? The fact that Alabama fans and the school’s administration know that Saban doesn’t honor 4-year scholarships, but don’t care? Or, maybe you’d prefer that we take a poll of Alabama fans, asking if they’d trade places with UVA, both academically and athletically. What do you suppose the results of that poll would be? Hell, the Bama fans on this very board aren’t even disputing the point. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/125 "2013-01-09T18:30:59Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’d say the Forbes ranking of seventh amongst public schools is more impressive, but YMMV. 7th at what, again? For the second time, I’m not arguing that Alabama is a shitty school. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/126 "2013-01-09T18:35:57Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > In part, I think it is. No, it really isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/127 "2013-01-09T18:41:46Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > 7th at what, again? > > For the second time, I’m not arguing that Alabama is a shitty school. > [@](#): > > According to the Forbes article, the rankings evaluate colleges on criteria including student evaluations as posted on [Ratemyprofessors.com](http://Ratemyprofessors.com), college graduation rates and the percentage of students winning top national awards such as Rhodes Scholarships and undergraduate Fulbright travel grants. The results-oriented study also used “Who’s Who in America” to assess professional achievement of graduates. From [here.](http://uanews.ua.edu/2008/05/new-college-ranking-places-ua-7th-in-the-nation/) ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/128 "2013-01-09T18:42:07Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > What would you accept as a cite? The fact that Alabama fans and the school’s administration know that Saban doesn’t honor 4-year scholarships, but don’t care? Or, maybe you’d prefer that we take a poll of Alabama fans, asking if they’d trade places with UVA, both academically and athletically. What do you suppose the results of that poll would be? > > Hell, the Bama fans on this very board aren’t even disputing the point. Moat of those scholarships are one year, renewable based on performance…just like the national merit academic scholarship I was on. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/129 "2013-01-09T18:48:32Z")
Were you allowed to transfer out without taking a year off? Could you have easily been accepted for transfer to a different university? Are most National Merit Scholars severely underprivileged youths with no chance at paying their own way or even maintaining their grades without significant assistance? Was your school one of only a handful who offered those scholarships for one year only, or was that the norm? ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/130 "2013-01-09T19:01:56Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > No, it’s mutated quite a bit by this point. Southern football has been completely, enthusiastically integrated by now. That by itself would be enough to falsify your Civil War idea. By now, it’s more of a reaction to the generalized condescension poured upon the South by outsiders. It’s still PC to make fun of rednecks and country folk. The first thing I heard when I moved to DC a few years ago was, “Gosh, you actually grew up in Alabama? I’ve never met anybody who grew up in Alabama! Where’s your accent? Did you go to college?” :rolleyes: > > You know what? We don’t like that. Just, you know, FYI. I didn’t mean the racial component, but the “North versus South” component. This came up because I heard people yesterday crowing about the South’s advantages over the North, one of which was SEC football. I don’t think many people outside of the SEC view this as a referendum on which region is a better place to live or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/131 "2013-01-09T19:05:07Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Were you allowed to transfer out without taking a year off? Could you have easily been accepted for transfer to a different university? These are NCAA rules and have nothing to do with the University of Alabama. Take it up with them. > [@](#): > > Are most National Merit Scholars severely underprivileged youths with no chance at paying their own way or even maintaining their grades without significant assistance? I certainly was, and so were a number of other people I knew who went to school on NM scholarships. I don’t know that I was “severely” underprivileged, whatever that means, but I certainly could not have gone to college without assistance. > [@](#): > > Was your school one of only a handful who offered those scholarships for one year only, or was that the norm? So, what you’re saying is that the U of A operated 100% within the rules of the NCAA. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/132 "2013-01-09T19:07:44Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > No, it really isn’t. Yes, it is. Wow this inane, even by Alabama standards. Enjoy your football and … well at least Alabama has football. And Mississippi. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/133 "2013-01-09T19:10:22Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Yes, it is. > > Wow this inane, even by Alabama standards. Enjoy your football and … well at least Alabama has football. And Mississippi. Aaand there you go. This kind of thing is, of course, what I’m talking about. See you next year! ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/134 "2013-01-09T19:18:07Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > These are NCAA rules and have nothing to do with the University of Alabama. Take it up with them. I certainly was, and so were a number of other people I knew who went to school on NM scholarships. I don’t know that I was “severely” underprivileged, whatever that means, but I certainly could not have gone to college without assistance. So, what you’re saying is that the U of A operated 100% within the rules of the NCAA. Gotcha. Exactly. Football over academic integrity, every time. “As long as we’re not breaking the letter of the NCAA law, we don’t need to worry about doing what’s right. FOOTBAW!!” Athletic scholarships have always been for 4 years, which is why nobody felt like they needed to be specified as such. Until the likes of your coach came along, that is. Now the folks at the NCAA are sitting around going “Holy fuck, can you believe this shit? Christ, give me a pen, so we can spell this out for the morally bankrupt folks who put football above all else”. I never, ever accused Alabama of cheating. I accused them of having fucked up priorities, which your response illustrates nicely. “We’re slimy, but we’re no cheaters!” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/135 "2013-01-09T19:18:34Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I really don’t see this as a positive. Instead of dealing with actual issues, like improving education, decreasing obesity, and being more tolerant, too many Southern’s appear to say: “Yep. But we sure did kick yo’ ass in football! Uh Huh Uh Huh!” > [@Hamlet](#): > > In part, I think it is. What is important to the people of Alabama isn’t the educational system, it’s not eating healthy, it’s not having protected sex, it’s not addressing poverty, it’s football, and then right wing politics. That’s a state with some fucked up priorities. Can you explain the mechanism for this, exactly, and how it’s unique to SEC football? What aspects of a person “dealing with” these problems are infringed upon by also being a football fan? There’s not some office where fandom can be exchanged for infrastructure and public health. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Wow this inane, even by Alabama standards. Enjoy your football and … well at least Alabama has football. And Mississippi. We get it, you hate the South and want us to fail, because we’re just inferior people. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/136 "2013-01-09T19:22:36Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Exactly. Football over academic integrity, every time. “As long as we’re not breaking the letter of the NCAA law, we don’t need to worry about doing what’s right. FOOTBAW!!” > > Athletic scholarships have always been for 4 years, which is why nobody felt like they needed to be specified as such. Until the likes of your coach came along, that is. Now the folks at the NCAA are sitting around going “Holy fuck, can you believe this shit? Christ, give me a pen, so we can spell this out for the morally bankrupt folks who put football above all else”. > > I never, ever accused Alabama of cheating. I accused them of having fucked up priorities, which your response illustrates nicely. “We’re slimy, but we’re no cheaters!” Except that, under Saban, athletic graduation rates, academics, and tutoring are at an all-time high, and are among the best in the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/137 "2013-01-09T19:24:01Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > What would you accept as a cite? The fact that Alabama fans and the school’s administration know that Saban doesn’t honor 4-year scholarships, but don’t care? That would be relevant if Alabama gave out four-year athletic scholarships. To my knowledge, the vast majority of schools don’t do this, but I haven’t made an in-depth study of the topic, so I could be wrong. > [@](#): > > Or, maybe you’d prefer that we take a poll of Alabama fans, asking if they’d trade places with UVA, both academically and athletically. What do you suppose the results of that poll would be? Why stop there? Why not MIT, or Harvard, or Princeton? Alabama’s not on par with them academically either, right? I’m not sure what the point of this exercise is. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Wow this inane, even by Alabama standards. Enjoy your football and … well at least Alabama has football. And Mississippi. I’m … flabbergasted by this. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/138 "2013-01-09T19:28:49Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > I’m … flabbergasted by this. I don’t know why. I expected it at some point in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/139 "2013-01-09T19:29:27Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > That would be relevant if Alabama gave out four-year athletic scholarships. To my knowledge, the vast majority of schools don’t do this, but I haven’t made an in-depth study of the topic, so I could be wrong. Not just “don’t”, they [weren’t allowed to](http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-02-17/multiyear-scholarships-be-allowed) by the NCAA in Division I, until this year. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/140 "2013-01-09T19:29:42Z")
Yes, Ogre, arguing is difficult when you’re defending bad people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371.md?page=8)