# BCS Championship Game--ROLL TIDE **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 7, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371 "2013-01-07T18:00:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/161 "2013-01-09T20:34:36Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > The players that Saban cut to make room for more players on his roster were not academic casualties. That is a fact. Try again. Except that some of them were. There were also some repeat violators of team rules. Robby Green is one of those. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/162 "2013-01-09T20:38:23Z")
Every team in the US has academic casualties, so what is your point? Only a very small number greyshirt and cut players for performance reasons. That’s what we’re talking about here. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/163 "2013-01-09T20:46:22Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Every team in the US has academic casualties, so what is your point? Only a very small number grey shirt and cut players for performance reasons. That’s what we’re talking about here. Actually, reading a bit more, it appears that most of these players had actually suffered injuries (like Darrius McKeller) and were, in fact, offered medical scholarships. They transferred out because they didn’t want to wait a year. In fact, quite a few of your names (which I realize were copied and pasted from [oversigning.com](http://oversigning.com), except Deion Belue, who is, of course, a starting corner for the Tide right now) are categorized as oversigning casualties under the broadest possible interpretation. Glenn Harbin voluntarily began concentrating on baseball after he failed to get on the field for 3 years (under scholarship the whole time, by the way.) Demetrius Goode: “I would like to thank my Alabama family for the greatest journey of my life,” Goode wrote. “I have learned many things and matured in many ways but everyday brings about change. Sometimes you have to move on to do better in life. I will be moving to North Alabama for football. RTR forever in my heart, the champion Tide, the fans that I will always love and never forget. I thank ya’ll for the support: ROLL TIDE ROLL. For life.” Petey Smith: “Basically, I just felt that I wasn’t giving it my all,” Smith said. “I’m not going to say I wasn’t happy. I didn’t feel like I had an opportunity to show what I could do with reps and everything. Instead of waiting, I thought I’d just go somewhere else.” “I just thought it wasn’t the place for me,” Smith said of Alabama. “I didn’t want to wait until my junior or senior year. …I’m just gonna go (to Holmes), play the football season and then I can really choose what school I want to go to through the recruiting process over again.” Neither of these guys had much hope of getting on the field. So they left. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/164 "2013-01-09T20:51:01Z")
They left because they were told that they wouldn’t see the field again. Or, it’s just a huge coincidence that Alabama oversigns by a gigantic margin every year, right? Funny that it didn’t happen when Saban was at Michigan State. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/165 "2013-01-09T21:04:21Z")
In addition, some of the guys on the list were dismissed for multiple infractions of team rules. One of them, Corey Grant, transferred to Auburn after one season at Alabama. Another, Darrington Sentimore, was a starting defensive lineman for Tennessee this year. I’m not sure either of these would be classified as casualties of oversigning or cutting, since they’re obviously talented enough to compete at other SEC schools. I’m fairly certain Kerry Murphy and Terry Grant used up their eligibility. I know they both had medical issues as well, but I don’t know if they got medical hardship scholarships. Some of the players on the list did receive medical hardship scholarships. You do know that Alabama isn’t the biggest oversigner in the SEC, right? And that new rules put in place (primarily due to Houston Nutt’s actions) have set a specific limit on the number of football scholarships that can be given out each year? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/166 "2013-01-09T21:25:23Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Aaand there you go. This kind of thing is, of course, what I’m talking about. See you next year! You won’t see me next year, you didn’t see me this year, and you won’t see me for a long time. I don’t give a flying fuck about college football (outside as a feeder for the NFL). I couldn’t care less if Alabama wins 13 straight championships, the state is still an embarrassment to our country. I hope that state’s obsession with football keeps it warm while it fails at almost every measure of quality of life. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/167 "2013-01-09T21:26:10Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > In addition, some of the guys on the list were dismissed for multiple infractions of team rules. I’m confused. Earlier in the thread, Ogre tried to tell us that one-year scholarships and oversigning was the work of the righteous. Now you two are playing the “we don’t oversign” doe-eyed routine. Which is it? Now explain why Alabama oversigns more than everyone else, and why there are numerous players on that list who were greyshirted, transferred to community colleges, or were dismissed outright for sub-standard performance. ETA: Hamlet, wtf? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/168 "2013-01-09T21:28:55Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > In addition, some of the guys on the list were dismissed for multiple infractions of team rules. > > One of them, Corey Grant, transferred to Auburn after one season at Alabama. Another, Darrington Sentimore, was a starting defensive lineman for Tennessee this year. I’m not sure either of these would be classified as casualties of oversigning or cutting, since they’re obviously talented enough to compete at other SEC schools. > > I’m fairly certain Kerry Murphy and Terry Grant used up their eligibility. I know they both had medical issues as well, but I don’t know if they got medical hardship scholarships. > > Some of the players on the list did receive medical hardship scholarships. > > You do know that Alabama isn’t the biggest oversigner in the SEC, right? And that new rules put in place (primarily due to Houston Nutt’s actions) have set a specific limit on the number of football scholarships that can be given out each year? That’s right. I remember Sentimore talking trash before one of our games this season, but I couldn’t remember who he currently plays for. Add to this list Robby Green, by the way. He was a chronic screwup who violated team rules on multiple occasions, and pretty much flaunted that fact in Saban’s face. It’s a shame about him, too. He had talent, was a starting corner for a while, and was kind of a fan favorite. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/169 "2013-01-09T21:29:55Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You won’t see me next year, you didn’t see me this year, and you won’t see me for a long time. I don’t give a flying fuck about college football (outside as a feeder for the NFL). I couldn’t care less if Alabama wins 13 straight championships, the state is still an embarrassment to our country. I hope that state’s obsession with football keeps it warm while it fails at almost every measure of quality of life. Okey doke! Have a nice day! ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/170 "2013-01-09T21:30:41Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m confused. Earlier in the thread, Ogre tried to tell us that one-year scholarships and oversigning was the work of the righteous. Now you two are playing the “we don’t oversign” doe-eyed routine. Which is it? No, we tried to tell you that one-year scholarships were the norm, and that was proven. If you’re not going to at least try to debate in good faith, what’s the point of this? > [@](#): > > Now explain why Alabama oversigns more than everyone else, and why there are numerous players on that list who were greyshirted, transferred to community colleges, or were dismissed outright for sub-standard performance. As noted previously, Alabama doesn’t oversign more than anyone else. You’re making the claim that players were dismissed for substandard performance; prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/171 "2013-01-09T21:33:48Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m confused. Earlier in the thread, Ogre tried to tell us that one-year scholarships and oversigning was the work of the righteous. Now you two are playing the “we don’t oversign” doe-eyed routine. Which is it? > > Now explain why Alabama oversigns more than everyone else, and why there are numerous players on that list who were greyshirted, transferred to community colleges, or were dismissed outright for sub-standard performance. > ETA: Hamlet, wtf? What is it with you and the excluded-middle fallacy? It’s both, of course. There’s nothing wrong with enforcing a scholarship the way it’s written rather than the way it’s “always been done” (in whatever fictional universe you occupy where one-year scholarships haven’t, in fact, always been the norm). Academic scholarships are done that way all the time. Athletic scholarships should be no different. AND, the Alabama-oversigning thing has been blown way out of proportion, and in some cases, outright lied about. See? Both. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/172 "2013-01-09T21:34:28Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > No, we tried to tell you that one-year scholarships were the norm, and that was proven. If you’re not going to at least try to debate in good faith, what’s the point of this? Nobody argued that one-year scholarships aren’t the norm. I argued that not renewing scholarships for performance reasons most certainly isn’t the norm. You’re the one not arguing in good faith. Is it good practice to cut players for sub-standard performance or not? Ogre argued that it was. > [@](#): > > As noted previously, Alabama doesn’t oversign more than anyone else. Yes they do. 138 scholarships in 5 years. > [@](#): > > You’re making the claim that players were dismissed for substandard performance; prove it. I did. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/173 "2013-01-09T21:37:36Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > What is it with you and the excluded-middle fallacy? It’s both, of course. There’s nothing wrong with enforcing a scholarship the way it’s written rather than the way it’s “always been done” (in whatever fictional universe you occupy where one-year scholarships haven’t, in fact, always been the norm). Academic scholarships are done that way all the time. Athletic scholarships should be no different. AND, the Alabama-oversigning thing has been blown way out of proportion, and in some cases, outright lied about. > > See? Both. False. Cutting players for performance reasons has not always been done, and Alabama is one of the worst over signers in the country. You’re wrong on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/174 "2013-01-09T21:38:03Z")
And Terry Grant was a four-year scholarship player! Good lord. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/175 "2013-01-09T21:39:15Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > False. Cutting players for performance reasons has not always been done, and Alabama is one of the worst over signers in the country. > > You’re wrong on both counts. Why shouldn’t it be done? It’s done for academic scholarships. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/176 "2013-01-09T21:40:29Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > And Terry Grant was a four-year scholarship player! Good lord. He skipped his last year of eligibility. Good lord. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/177 "2013-01-09T21:42:23Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Why shouldn’t it be done? It’s done for academic scholarships. I’ve explained it to you twice. Pay attention. Now explain to me why the vast majority of NCAA colleges, including the entire B1G, thinks its a bad way of doing things. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/178 "2013-01-09T21:47:28Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > He skipped his last year of eligibility. Good lord. Can you show that he was cut? Hell, half of these guys were actually offered scholarships - of the medical variety, and they chose not to take them because they didn’t want to sit out. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/179 "2013-01-09T21:49:00Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Nobody argued that one-year scholarships aren’t the norm. I argued that not renewing scholarships for performance reasons most certainly isn’t the norm. You’re the one not arguing in good faith. Fine. Which players on that list had their scholarships non-renewed for performance reasons? Please provide a cite. > [@](#): > > Is it good practice to cut players for sub-standard performance or not? Ogre argued that it was. I don’t know if it’s good practice or not. I stated “Alabama doesn’t oversign more than anyone else.” Your response: > [@](#): > > Yes they do. 138 scholarships in 5 years. isn’t even accurate based on your own source material. Based on [statistics from oversigning.com](http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/recruiting-numbers/), Alabama was sixth in the SEC from 2002-2010 in average number of football scholarships given each year. Even going by the “138 in five years” number (which I’m taking at face value to be accurate, although I don’t know), Alabama would have averaged 27.6 scholarships offered per year, which is under the SEC-mandated rule of 28 per year. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371/180 "2013-01-09T21:49:26Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You won’t see me next year, you didn’t see me this year, and you won’t see me for a long time. I don’t give a flying fuck about college football (outside as a feeder for the NFL). I couldn’t care less if Alabama wins 13 straight championships, the state is still an embarrassment to our country. I hope that state’s obsession with football keeps it warm while it fails at almost every measure of quality of life. So in addition to being a deranged rant against the south in general, this was a massive threadshit. Thanks for dropping by. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bcs-championship-game-roll-tide/646371.md?page=10)