# Bea Arthur Syndrome, or "We need someone realy ugly!"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 16, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326 "2005-08-16T21:08:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/1 "2005-08-16T21:08:28Z")
The “is Bea Arthur bitter?” thread got me to thinking about character actors and actresses hired specifically because they are ugly, unsexy, hatchet-faced bastards, and how they dealt with that—also, who some of your favorites are.
Bea Arthur. Margaret Hamilton (the definition of “hatchet-faced crone”). Thelma Ritter. Nancy Kulp. Jerry Colonna. Marty Feldman. Edna Mae Oliver. Marie Dressler. Incredibly talented, all, but cast specifically for their lack of good looks.
“Hey, we got a role here for a human punchline—you’d be perfect!” As a hatchet-faced crone myself, I don’t know how happy I’d be making a living like that (though one can argue women who market themselves as human sex-bombs have self-image problems, too). From what I’ve heard, Bea Arthur and Margaret Hamilton were certainly well-adjusted women who took it with a grain of salt, though I read once that Edna Mae Oliver wanted all her life to be “pretty.”
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### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/2 "2005-08-16T21:14:53Z")
Ernest Borgnine. James Woods.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/3 "2005-08-16T21:17:26Z")
Anne Ramsey.
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### Author:  [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/4 "2005-08-16T21:21:48Z")
Jack Elam
Lee Van Cleef (not so much ugly as inherently menacing)
Clint Howard
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/5 "2005-08-16T21:24:07Z")
> [@NDP](#):
>
> Lee Van Cleef (not so much ugly as inherently menacing)
As is Billy Drago.
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### Author:  [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/6 "2005-08-16T21:43:32Z")
What’s so ugly about Bea Arthur? I think she’s nice looking. And Sarah Jessica Parker is easily twice as ugly as Bea Arthur. Sarah Jessica has the classic Witchy-Poo face, warts included. Yet they pass her off as beautiful.
What the ???
I’ve also been surprised to see how many young people think Lucille Ball was unattractive. My God, she was gorgeous when she was young.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/7 "2005-08-16T21:44:36Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#):
>
> As is Billy Drago.
Who was great as John Bly in _The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr._.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/8 "2005-08-16T21:46:05Z")
Ann B. Davis (not so much ugly as plain)
Kathy Bates
Kathleen Freeman
Carol Kane
And a special nod to Alyce beasley, who got (IMHO) the best non-comic line in the entire run of _Cheers_ as Coach’s daughter:
“Look at me Daddy. Really look at me! Tell me what you see.”
Coach: “Oh my God. I never saw it before. You look just like your mother.”
“That’s right. I look just like her. And my mother was not (pause, looks at Coach) comfortable with her beauty.”
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/9 "2005-08-16T21:47:58Z")
LaWanda “Aunt Esther” Page on _Sanford & Son_ (with Norma “Dolly” Miller, Nancy Kulp making recurring appearances)
Eddie Deezen- the stock [nerd](http://imdb.com/name/nm0214430/) in many 70s and 80s films.
[Mary Grace Canfield](LaWanda “Aunt Esther” Page on _Sanford & Son_ (with Norma “Dolly” Miller, Nancy Kulp making recurring appearances)
[URL=http://www.pscelebrities.com/mc.html) (who in addition to Ralph Monroe played Gomer’s “dog date” and other “beyond-plain Jane” roles.
[Fran Ryan](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0752539/) was a 'there’s what’s her [face](http://www.falcon-crest-tv.de/pictures/gueststars/fran_ryan.jpg)" character actress who could have been Marjorie Main’s illegitimate daughter with Walter Brennan. She was often the butt of ugly jokes.
Personally I never found Bea Arthur the least bit ugly, just unconventional looking. My mother _loved_ it when Maude became a hit because she felt women who weren’t short and dainty were represented on TV for the first time in an attractive light.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/10 "2005-08-16T21:52:50Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> And a special nod to Alyce beasley
IRL she was married to [Vincent Schiavelli](http://imdb.com/name/nm0001704/) (best known for [this performance](http://www.venus.dti.ne.jp/~akkira/oyaji/vincent/vin.jpg)) who also fits this category. They have a daughter- I’m wondering just out of curiosity what she looks like. (Of course if she looks like the daughter of [Richard Kiel](http://www.goldenstateautographs.com/photographs/images/K/kielrichard.jpg), she’s gorgeous (Kiel’s daughter was a beauty queen and model in England a few years back).
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### Author:  [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/11 "2005-08-16T21:56:33Z")
Linda Hunt is my favorite. It must take guts to go into serious acting when people look at you and automatically think “weird.” I could listed to her forever, though.
It must also be odd to be cast as the ugly duckling/monster when you are actually reasonably attractive (e.g., Cloris Leachman.)
I always though Bea Arthur was rather striking, which, I realize is not the same as pretty. She has the kind of features that hold up well, where more conventionally beautiful types don’t. Kathleen Turner, for example.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/12 "2005-08-16T21:58:17Z")
Ted “Lurch” Cassidy, Al “Grampa” Lewis and Fred Gwynne also have a place on here.
The late Marty Feldman
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/13 "2005-08-16T22:00:22Z")
“Hatchet-faced crone?” You? Sorry, I’ve seen your picture, and all I have to say to that is, _pull the other one; it’s got bells on._
Anyway, unless it happens while I’m previewing, nobody’s mentioned Martha Raye.
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### Author:  [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/14 "2005-08-16T22:06:08Z")
> [@Sampiro](#):
>
> IRL she was married to [Vincent Schiavelli](http://imdb.com/name/nm0001704/) (best known for [this performance
I thought he was best known for [url=http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Drama/Drama/OneFlewFredericksonSefeltTa.asp]this performance]([http://www.venus.dti.ne.jp/~akkira/oyaji/vincent/vin.jpg](http://www.venus.dti.ne.jp/~akkira/oyaji/vincent/vin.jpg)).
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### Author:  [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/15 "2005-08-16T22:07:12Z")
**Rats.** [This performance](http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Drama/Drama/OneFlewFredericksonSefeltTa.asp).
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### Author:  [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/16 "2005-08-16T22:08:11Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> …Carol Kane…
You mean [this](http://www.riverfronttimes.com/issues/2001-12-19/culture/stage_1.gif) Carol Kane? She’s gorgeous.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/17 "2005-08-16T22:14:53Z")
> [@Eve](#):
>
> …the definition of “hatchet-faced crone”…
Oh, come on. Margaret had plenty of sympathetic roles where she just _happened_ to be homely. Let’s not forget, poor [Kim McGuire](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0570238/), who only had two film roles. One was an almost insignificant character, and in the one where she got plenty of limelight, she played… …Hatchet-Face. 😃
Several actors who suffered from acromegaly were almost exclusively cast for their “monstrous” appearances.
The most famous fella is probably [Rondo Hatton](http://www.teddwebb.com/legends/rondo_hatton.html). Another sufferer was the above-mentioned [Richard Kiel](http://www.monmouth.com/~rio1dude/update156), who is best known as “Jaws” in the Bond films, and as the Kanabite embassador in the _Twilight Zone_ episode “To Serve Man.”
[Paul Benedict](http://chud.com/nextraimages/Jeffersons7.jpg)’s relatively mild acromegaly gave him an odd (but not scary) appearance that made him suitable for roles such as “Bentley” on _The Jeffersons_.
> [@bluethree](#):
>
> I’ve also been surprised to see how many young people think Lucille Ball was unattractive. My God, she was gorgeous when she was young.
Hell yeah-- she started as a pin-up girl, for chrissakes. When she first did the Abbott and Costello radio show, she was the beauty-queen guest, not the visiting comedienne.
Carol Kane is drop-dead gorgeous, too. These are women who simply haven’t been limited in their careers by their incredible good looks.
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### Author:  [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/18 "2005-08-16T22:46:19Z")
How about Steve Buscemi?
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### Author:  [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/19 "2005-08-16T23:17:59Z")
Oh no, I ain’t goin’ down in the basement with THAT guy. He looks like [Boris Karloff](http://www.karloff.com/)!
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bea-arthur-syndrome-or-we-need-someone-realy-ugly/317326/20 "2005-08-16T23:31:18Z")
Who, [Raymond Massey](http://www.tigersweat.com/images/arsen08.jpg)? 😉
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