# Beanballs and Designated Hitters **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 5, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072 "2008-04-05T13:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/1 "2008-04-05T13:39:40Z")
Of all the ways to play dirty in baseball, one of the most common is probably the beanball, where the pitcher hits the batter the ball. This, of course, can lead to retalliation, and sometimes after a player’s been hit, you’ll see his team deliberately throw a beaner himself, in revenge. The American League has the designated hitter rule, which means that the pitcher doesn’t bat himself, but instead another player (the Designated Hitter) bats for the pitcher. This leads to the question, are beanballs more common in the American League than the National League? Is a pitcher who knows he’s never going to have to personally face a retalitory beanball likely to throw one? ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/2 "2008-04-05T14:51:40Z")
I don’t have the stats to prove it, but I don’t think it makes a difference. If there were to be retaliation, even if the pitcher doesn’t bat, it would be against a teammate, probably a valuable one, and everybody knows it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/3 "2008-04-05T16:43:25Z")
Moving to The Game Room. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/4 "2008-04-05T16:58:58Z")
There is something of a meme that beanballs are more common in the AL because of the DH rule, but I don’t know if there are really any stats to back it up. The AL _will_ retaliate if a pitcher intentionally hits somebody, they’ll just do it against a star player from the other team. Theoretically, the deterrent factor lies in the presumption that a pitcher will not want his own star teammate pissed off at him for having to take a payback pitch in the ribcage. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/5 "2008-04-05T17:07:15Z")
The rules about throwing a ball with apparent intent to hit the batter have been tightened (in both leagues) since the DH rule. First time is a warning to both teams, next time is an automatic ejection of the pitcher and manager, whichever team did it first. While we rarely see a bench-clearing brawl anymore (okay, even in the past they were usually 2 guys actually throwing punches and the rest just grabbing each others’ jerseys), we no longer see the players policing each other the way they used to, and we’re seeing more hot-dogging. Manny Ramirez can stand and admire his deep fly balls, even the ones that don’t go out, without the fear of retaliation that would occasionally restrain Reggie Jackson from doing it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/6 "2008-04-05T17:12:33Z")
There is really more than one question here. First, there’s the question of whether a league with a DH (the American League) has more hit batters than a league without a DH (the National League). If the answer to that question is Yes, we then have to ask whether the difference in hit batters is a result of the “moral hazard” theory. That is, are there fewer hit batters in the NL because the pitchers are worried about personal retaliation when they come to the plate, or is there some other explanation? The evidence certainly seems to indicate that the answer to the first question is Yes. Studies show that, since the introduction of the DH, the AL has averaged about 15% more hit batters than the NL. As [this article](http://www.aip.org/isns/reports/2004/006.html) notes: > [@](#): > > “There is no debate about the fact that the designated hitter rule is coincident with a higher rate of hit batsmen,” said Doug Drinen, a mathematician at the University of the South in Tennessee, who co-authored the meeting paper with economist John-Charles Bradbury. “Rather, the debate is about why the rule causes the increase.” You can download a copy of Bradbury and Drinen’s paper: [Identifying Moral Hazard: A Natural Experiment in Major League Baseball](http://ddrinen.sewanee.edu/Plunk/dhpaper.pdf) (pdf) They conclude that, while the AL has more hit batters, explaining this is more complex than simply asking whether the NL pitchers are more concerned about being hit (the “moral hazard” theory of plunking). As they note in their introduction: > [@](#): > > However, though the evidence is clear that the DH is associated with an increase in hit batsmen, it is not necessarily a consequence of moral hazard. Trandel, White, and Klein (1998, hereafter, TWK) and Levitt (1998) are skeptical of the interpretation of [Goff, Shughart, and > Tollison] on two grounds. First, adding the DH raises the marginal benefit of hitting an additional good batter in the line-up. Because pitchers are poor hitters, few teams want to risk hitting the other pitcher. Replacing the pitcher with the DH places a batter more worthy of plunking in the lineup. As TWK state, “the difference [in hit batsmen] is largely because the AL batters are (on average) better hitters, and are thus less costly and more beneficial to hit.” Therefore, the aggregate increase in hit batsmen in the AL over the NL may be attributed to the change in the composition of the lineup and not a moral hazard response of AL pitchers. Second, the moral hazard story seems implausible, because pitchers are rarely hit and therefore rarely bear any retaliatory costs from hitting batters. Hitting the pitcher in retaliation may actually reward the instigator by putting the weak-hitting pitcher on base. Given that pitchers know this, it is unlikely that pitchers consider reciprocal retaliation to be a cost. As evidence, Levitt (1998) finds that there is no correlation between pitchers hitting batters and pitchers being hit themselves, and pitchers are hit so rarely that they would have to be hypersensitive to the relative price change induced by the DH. Both of these studies conclude that the increase in the quantity of hit batsmen in the AL likely reflects compositional changes in the batting order, and not the moral hazard of pitchers. > > pp. 2-3 You can read the paper to see exactly what their methodology was, and how they arrived at their conclusions. Suffice to say, they concluded the “moral hazard” theory actually has considerable merit, and that retaliation against pitchers helps to explain the difference between the numbers of hit batters in the two leagues. Here’s their last paragraph: > [@](#): > > Past empirical analyses of the competing hypotheses to explain the hit batsmen differential have relied on aggregate league data. However, the explicit cost-benefit analysis of the pitcher at the time of a pitch is not observable with aggregate data. Using two new unique datasets we have been able to observe the costs and benefits of hitting batters during individual plate appearances. Therefore, we isolate the predicted effects of the competing hypotheses and determine the impact of many relevant factors that influence the pitcher’s consumption of risk in hitting a batter every time a hitter steps to the plate. Controlling for variables that proxy batter quality, pitcher quality, retaliation, and game situation we find that the DH rule increases the likelihood that any batter will be hit during a plate appearance between 11 and 17 percent. This explains approximately 60 to 80 percent of the differential in the hit batsmen rate between leagues. Furthermore, we observe that pitchers are more likely to be hit after plunking an opposing player. This indicates that retaliation against pitchers, which is necessary for the moral hazard explanation, does occur. In total, the findings support the original moral hazard explanation of GST even after controlling for batting order composition. Though other factors are important in the economics of plunking, moral hazard plays a nontrivial role in explaining the hit batsmen differential between leagues. > > p. 17 The paper is from 2004 ---
**Author:** ![Stana\_Claus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stana_claus/32/13874_2.png) [@Stana\_Claus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stana_Claus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/7 "2008-04-05T17:53:24Z")
This may be slightly off topic, but I always thought a “beanball” was specifically targetting the batter’s head. Just targetting the batter’s body in general was referred to as “plunking” which is also the term used in the above referenced article. Am I off base here (pun intended)? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/8 "2008-04-05T21:46:57Z")
Pitchers who are more concerned with avoiding injury (and perhaps even avoiding baserunning without warmup jackets on) would seem to be more likely to take stances away from the plate, and to get softer throws. Good hitters, like all DH’s, are more likely to crowd the plate and get jammed by fastballs or hard breaking pitches. I wonder how much of the difference in the study is attributable to Don Baylor and his own trademark specialty? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/9 "2008-04-06T04:48:59Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Pitchers who are more concerned with avoiding injury (and perhaps even avoiding baserunning without warmup jackets on) would seem to be more likely to take stances away from the plate, and to get softer throws. Good hitters, like all DH’s, are more likely to crowd the plate and get jammed by fastballs or hard breaking pitches. I wonder how much of the difference in the study is attributable to Don Baylor and his own trademark specialty? [/QUOTE] I was going to make a similar point. I suspect pitchers are seldom hit by pitch because the opposing pitcher does not feel the need to pitch inside to him. Now pitchers do not account for 1/9 of at bats since they bat last and are often pinch-hit for, but the number of hit batsmen clearly has other effects. For may years since the DH, the AL had 14 teams and the NL 12 so there would have been more plate appearances in the AL. Was that corrected for? Also the AL tends to have higher scoring games so again there are more players battign in the AL even corrected for the same number of games. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/10 "2008-04-06T06:15:25Z")
[QUOTE=OldGuy] I was going to make a similar point. I suspect pitchers are seldom hit by pitch because the opposing pitcher does not feel the need to pitch inside to him. Now pitchers do not account for 1/9 of at bats since they bat last and are often pinch-hit for, but the number of hit batsmen clearly has other effects. [/quote] But for the “moral hazard” theory to be validated, you don’t need to demonstrate that pitchers are hit less than regular batters (they are); you simply need to show that pitchers are hit **more often** in retaliation for hitting someone from the other team. And that is precisely what the linked study demonstrates. After noting that, as a whole, pitchers are about 55% less likely than other batters to be hit, the study goes on to say > [@](#): > > In response to hit batters, pitchers are more likely to hit batters the half-inning after the opposing pitcher hits a current pitcher’s teammate. Though the results are not significant for players in general, a pitcher is four times more likely to be hit when an opposing player was hit in the previous half-inning. This variable, which is significant, is very important for the moral hazard hypothesis. We now observe retaliation against pitchers who hit batters. This is a phenomenon previously unidentified in the aggregate data. Though pitchers are hit less frequently than other players on average, pitchers are more likely to be hit after plunking an opposing player. Therefore, pitchers do bear a very real cost to hitting batters, which is necessary to explain a moral hazard response by pitchers. Emphasis mine. [QUOTE=OldGuy] For may years since the DH, the AL had 14 teams and the NL 12 so there would have been more plate appearances in the AL. Was that corrected for? Also the AL tends to have higher scoring games so again there are more players battign in the AL even corrected for the same number of games. [/QUOTE] Yes, the difference in team numbers and scoring was corrected for; the number of hit batters is expressed as a rate (hit batters per plate appearance), and not merely as an absolute number. The study also notes that, in the mid-1990s, the NL for a few years actually had slightly more hit batters than the AL, and economists conclude that the reason for this was that the 1993 expansion of the NL diluted the talent pool, leading to a greater number of marginal pitchers whose control was not as good as their superiors. The authors also note that, after a few years, the earlier pattern resumed, with more hit batters in the AL. The difference between the AL and the NL, though, was lower than it had been before, because the MLB “double warning” rule raised the cost of hitting a batter by instituting harsher punishments. I guess i could keep summarizing the report and detailing its hypotheses and conclusions. Or, alternatively, people who are interested in participating in this conversation could actually read the goddamn thing (it’s 17 double-spaced pages) rather than simply speculating upon what it might or might not contain, and what the authors might or might not have corrected for. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2008, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/11 "2008-04-06T11:39:46Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] The rules about throwing a ball with apparent intent to hit the batter have been tightened (in both leagues) since the DH rule. First time is a warning to both teams, next time is an automatic ejection of the pitcher and manager, whichever team did it first. While we rarely see a bench-clearing brawl anymore [/QUOTE] Firing a ball at an opposing batter is a necessary part of the game of baseball. You cannot let someone crowd the plate. If the manager or pitcher gets tossed, so what.. And we do see bench-clearing brawls, and rightly so, these days. I don’t think they are all so rare compared to earlier games. Shit, if I were a gm, and my manager failed to plunk a batter crowding the plate, I’d fire the manager. And I’d trade every one away to not go defend a batter of mine who just got beaned and charged the mound. And if I were the beaning manager I’d trade away every one of the players who did not run out and defend the pitcher. I’d hate to see what the Straight Dope Baseball league would look like. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/12 "2008-04-06T15:36:49Z")
[QUOTE=zuma] Firing a ball at an opposing batter is a necessary part of the game of baseball. You cannot let someone crowd the plate. If the manager or pitcher gets tossed, so what.. And we do see bench-clearing brawls, and rightly so, these days. I don’t think they are all so rare compared to earlier games. Shit, if I were a gm, and my manager failed to plunk a batter crowding the plate, I’d fire the manager. And I’d trade every one away to not go defend a batter of mine who just got beaned and charged the mound. And if I were the beaning manager I’d trade away every one of the players who did not run out and defend the pitcher. I’d hate to see what the Straight Dope Baseball league would look like. [/QUOTE] Huh? **ElvisL1ves** didn’t make a single comment about whether throwing at an opposing batter was a good idea, or whether it was still a necessary part of the game. He merely made a factual observation about MLB’s rules regarding plunking, and their effects on the incidence of hot batters and bench-clearing brawls. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/13 "2008-04-06T17:59:56Z")
So - why is crowding the plate bad for the pitching team? Seems to me like it means the inside of the plate ould be hard to hit - what with hitting low on the bat, while the sweet spot would be pretty far to the other side. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beanballs-and-designated-hitters/444072/14 "2008-04-06T19:03:48Z")
[QUOTE=Darth Sensitive] So - why is crowding the plate bad for the pitching team? Seems to me like it means the inside of the plate ould be hard to hit - what with hitting low on the bat, while the sweet spot would be pretty far to the other side. [/QUOTE] Ideally, yes. The problem is that even the most accurate pitchers still can’t get it exactly where they want it every time, and trying to pitch inside to a plate-crowder means that you increase your chances of hitting the batter, and thus giving up a walk. And if you miss the other way, you leave the ball right over the heart of the plate and get smashed. I’m watching the Red Sox - Blue Jays game right now, and David Ortiz is a great example of a plate-crowding DH. Not only that, but he removes one of the risks of plate crowding by wearing a massive great guard on his front elbow, meaning that he can crowd the plate with relative impunity without worrying about getting a cracked elbow or forearm. And if he takes one to the side or the back or the butt, it doesn’t do any permanent damage, and it gets him to first base.