# Bear\_Nenno, you are a moron **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2000, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143 "2000-08-12T23:53:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/1 "2000-08-12T23:53:10Z")
As someone who usually makes quite intelligent posts, it saddens me that you have gone so low as to post the assinine, baseless tripe that you have in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=34350). I respect your views; you have the right to have them (even if they are founded on outdated and childish premises) but people who make the kind of rediculous arguments you do in order to justify their views piss me off to no extent. Let’s get started. > [@](#): > > Tampa is pretty much the Capitol of Strip Clubs, but even they do not allow oral sex. … Well ok, not legally anyway! When clubs get out of line, the police need to step in to keep everyone in check. Otherwise it will continue to get worse, and pretty soon people will be fucking each other on stage! So fucking what? This is the stupidist justification for a political stance I’ve seen in a long, long time. People have the right to do whatever the hell they want in the privacy of their own home or business so long as they are not infringing upon the rights of others. This third grade concept seems to be completely lost on you. But this isn’t nearly the worst of it. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _matt\_mcl_ > > And of course, two people fucking on stage would lead to the collapse of western civilization. > > Of course not. But niether would allowing prostitution to be legalized. But these things are still ilegal! Why is it people never complain about the cops getting the crack whores off the street? I’m sorry, but this type of argument is not only completely irrelevent to what is being discussed (sex acts in night club s) it is petty and juvenile. Comparing the acts of consenting adults in a private institution to crackwhores is offensive. This type logical leaping is a sign of someone making a baseless argument without putting a seconds worth of thought into it. > [@](#): > > Your argument sucks. Why not just say, “If you dont like crack houses, just stay away from them. They are not bothering you! If you have such a problem with a whore house, do not go to them!” Again you are comparing two totally unrelated topics. Things that are dangerous and a threat to the community (crackhouses) are illegal for a reason. There is NO REASON why a sex act in a private business should be illegal. > [@](#): > > Ignoring ilegal activity is not the solution. Tampa Police raid these Asian massage parlors here all the time. Why? Because the ladies are having sex with the clients. This is ilegal. No, it will not cause the destruction of man but it is ilegal. Why should we just ignore it with the excuse, “Well people who do not agree with it should just not go there.” Obviously, you have no aspirations concerning the future of your society. If something is illegal that shouldn’t be (i.e., there is no moral basis for why people should not be allowed to do it) that law should be changed. It’s a weak and stupid position to defend a law “because it’s the law.” YOU HAVE EVEN ADMITTED that the law served no real purpose! YOU HAVE EVEN ADMITTED that there is no moral justification for the law! What would happen if Ghandi, MLK Jr., and Rosa Parks obeyed the law “just because it’s the law?” What would have happend if Martin Luther had defended the religious views of his institution just because “those are the views?” This level of apathy sickens and saddens me. Jesus H. Christ, man, you admit that a law is pointless, and then defend it! Please, please, _please_ put some fucking thought in before you make yourself look like a complete idiot. Final Jerry-Springer-esque thoughts: I got pissed off not because you hold views different than my own. I got pissed off because the sheer amount of stupidity expressed in your arguments for those views is OFFENSIVE. The types of baseless leaps you make between consentual sex and criminal activity are the same type of argument made by people who KNOW they have no acceptable premise from which to start. Here endeth the rant. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/2 "2000-08-13T00:08:50Z")
Without addressing the rest of your post, friedo (which was pretty OK by me) I just wanted to point out that this statement: > [@](#): > > Things that are dangerous and a threat to the community (crackhouses) are illegal for a reason. is (or could be) a circular argument. Arguably, crackhouses are “dangerous and a threat to the community” **because** they are illegal. Decriminalizing crack would remove the danger and the threat. Mostly. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/3 "2000-08-13T00:15:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\*Without addressing the rest of your post, friedo (which was pretty OK by me) I just wanted to point out that this statement: > > > [@](#): > > > > Things that are dangerous and a threat to the community (crackhouses) are illegal for a reason. > > is (or could be) a circular argument. Arguably, crackhouses are “dangerous and a threat to the community” **because** they are illegal. Decriminalizing crack would remove the danger and the threat. Mostly. \*\* I actually agree somewhat with this sentiment, though my post was really about that NATURE of the argument, not the subject of the argument itself (admittedly, I did get a little involved in the subject matter.) My point was that many people have a moral justification for why crackhouses should not be allowed (whether they are correct is another matter) yet no moral justification for the above discussed laws has been made. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/4 "2000-08-13T00:33:32Z")
**So fucking what? This is the stupidist justification for a political stance I’ve seen in a long, long time.** I don’t get what the fuck you are saying here? I was not taking a political stance. In fact, if you read my posts, you will see that I tried throughout the thread to NOT make a political issue out of it. My point was always that it is not the cops fault for enforcing the law. Why does everyone get made at cops when they enforce laws that the people think are wrong. Oral sex on stage is illegal. It is the cops’ job to enforce laws and prevent people from committing acts that are deemed illegal by law makers. Wow, what an off beat political view that is. [quote] Of course not. But niether would allowing prostitution to be legalized. But these things are still ilegal! Why is it people never complain about the cops getting the crack whores off the street? * * * I’m sorry, but this type of argument is not only completely irrelevent to what is being discussed (sex acts in night club s) it is petty and juvenile. Comparing the acts of consenting adults in a private institution to crackwhores is offensive. This type logical leaping is a sign of someone making a baseless argument without putting a seconds worth of thought into it. \*\* What I was saying about the prostitutes was that acting as a crack whore is illegal. The cops arrest prostitutes. Legalizing prostitution would not be the decline of western civilization, just as letting people on stage have oral sex would not. My point to Matt, was that as long as these things are illegal, they need to be enforced. Also I tried to mention that no one ever gets mad at cops for arresting crack whores. Why is that? Why is everyone ok with that, but they are not ok with the act in question? Both acts are illegal under State Statutes. \*\*Again you are comparing two totally unrelated topics. Things that are dangerous and a threat to the community (crackhouses) are illegal for a reason. There is NO REASON why a sex act in a private business should be illegal. \*\* Did you even fucking read all of my posts??? Christ, you are trying to start a debate about victimless crimes! I dont care what the fuck your view on these crimes is. I dont care if you think we should legalize all vice crimes and let everyone fuck in the streets and smoke all the dope they want. But as long as these things are illegal, I will enforce them. Society wants these things to be against the law. Sorry, but that is not my fault. Damnit, you know what. I was going to respond to each thing you said and try to explain things to you. But it seems like the rest of your rant is all about the same bullshit. Saying how I agree with laws that are ridiculous and I am an asshole and a hypocrit and everything else. Look friedo, I DO NOT MAKE THE LAWS. It is not up to me to decide which ones I like and which ones I don’t. All that shit about Rosa Parks and whatever is not relevant to this. Those laws were changed!!! And guess what, they were not changed by the cops! They were changed by the law makers and the citizens of this country. I do not see how getting pissed off at the cops for enforcing laws is going to help anything. SHit, it doesn’t even make since. Who the fuck are you to say what laws cops should enforce and which ones they shouldn’t. It is ok to have an opinion about laws. But your opinion should be about Which laws should be changed on the books. NOT which laws should cops ignore! Having cops ignore laws is the start of anarchy. If you do not like the laws, blame the law makers, not the cops!!! Decide which laws you think are ridiculous and tell everyone why you think they are stupid and tell everyone how you want the law changed. But just because we do not like a certain law, does not give us an excuse to blame cops for enforcing them. Can you understand this? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/5 "2000-08-13T00:36:19Z")
**My point was that many people have a moral justification for why crackhouses should not be allowed (whether they are correct is another matter) yet no moral justification for the above discussed laws has been made** And it is not up to the cops to just decide what laws they do not have a moral justification for and ignore them. It is up to the law makers and the judges. Cops enforce laws. They do not create them. Why get pissed off at them for this??? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/6 "2000-08-13T00:54:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Final Jerry-Springer-esque thoughts: I got pissed off not because you hold views different than my own. I got pissed off because the sheer amount of stupidity expressed in your arguments for those views is OFFENSIVE. The types of baseless leaps you make between consentual sex and criminal activity are the same type of argument made by people who KNOW they have no acceptable premise from which to start. Maybe you did not read the same shit I was posting. I NEVER expressed a personal opinion about the laws. At least not until the Strip CLub story. In that story I said I hated that law, which would be agreeing with you. So how do our views differ? All I have been saying is people should not get pissed off at cops for enforceing the laws. HATE the laws, but do not HATE the cops for enforcing them. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/7 "2000-08-13T01:17:28Z")
Yeah Bear, It’s the law so I hafta enforce it. Sounds kinda Nazi to me. “I was just following orders”. Have you ever thought about thinking for yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/8 "2000-08-13T01:37:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Having cops ignore laws is the start of anarchy. If you do not like the laws, blame the law makers, not the cops!!! Dozens of outmoded laws are still on the books, and cops routinely ignore them. There is an entire [website](http://www.dumblaws.com/) dedicated to them. Aside from that, NOBODY ON THE OTHER THREAD WAS CRITICIZING THE COPS!! The LAWS were what was being cirticized. You seem entirely too defensive to be taken seriously. **IF** you are a cop on the street with that attitude, I am worried about the citizens living in your jurisdiction. As I said in the other thread, these attitudes make it seem unlikely to me that you are a cop. If you are, you are dangerously close to the edge. You should speak to the department psychiatrist immediately. That last satement was deadly serious, not a flame, not a joke. You don’t sound stable, dude. Seek help. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/9 "2000-08-13T01:44:03Z")
Weirddave, The OP was critisizing the cops for arresting everyone. The next few posts were all about how bad it is that cops have time to make stupid arrests etc. Then people chimed in with the fact that these people should not get arrested because it was a night club and they were consenting adults, etc. So I tried to point out that just because you are consenting adults does not give you the right to break the law. Just because you have a sign outside your club saying there might be illegal acts inside, does not give you the right to break the law. I am not being sensitive. But if it seems that way, maybe it is because everyone is flaming me without fucking reading or understanding what I was saying. Especially you, I thought we came to an understanding earlier and now you come back with this shit. I think you are doing it just to get a response now. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/10 "2000-08-13T01:45:05Z")
BTW, half those fucking laws are not real. Do you really think it is illegal for woman to skydive on sundays??? I would like them to show me some legal text to back that up. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/11 "2000-08-13T01:48:15Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s the law so I hafta enforce it. Sounds kinda Nazi to me. “I was just following orders”. Have you ever thought about thinking for yourself? milroy, ok so when my corporal tells me to write someone a ticket even though I think would not have given him one in the first place, I should just tell my corporal to fuck off? OK man. If I was commanded to do something that was illegal, then that would be different. These cops did not infringe on any persons civil rights. The people broke the law and they were arrested. I do not see how this compares to Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/12 "2000-08-13T02:03:35Z")
Bear, please see the other thread. I too see us as on the same side of the issue now. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/13 "2000-08-13T02:15:13Z")
Peace!!! I responded to your post in that thread… ---
**Author:** ![Bluepony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Bluepony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluepony)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/14 "2000-08-13T05:49:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Yeah Bear, > > It’s the law so I hafta enforce it. Sounds kinda Nazi to me. “I was just following orders”. Have you ever thought about thinking for yourself? \*\* _Pick up a history book._ This is “what sounds kinda Nazi”… –Six million plus murdered Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, socialists, homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Buchenwald, Sobibor, Ravensbruck, etc. –Clinical and scientific experiments conducted on “subhuman” races and prisoners of war (mostly Soviet) pertaining to survivability in the face of rapid atmospheric decompression, prototype nerve agents, and experimental types of antipersonnel munitions. –Malmedy Massacre, Battle of the Bulge, 1944. Hundreds of US prisoners of war executed by Nazi Waffen SS panzergrenadiers under SS General Peiper. Reason was that their advance took priority over POW handling. –Fifty RAF fliers excuted under personal order of Adolph Hitler for doing their military obligation to escape their prisoner camp in Sagan. –Anne Frank dies of typhus, Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, March 1945. –(Typical accounting of profits per prisoner in concentration camp) -Average income from rental of prisoner per day in RM (Reichsmark)= 6.00 RM -Deduction for nourishment per day= 0.60 RM -Average life expectancy of prisoner: 270 days x 5.30 RM = 1431.00 RM -Minus amortization on clothing= 0.10 RM -**Profits from rational utilization of corpse (Gold teeth, Clothing, Articles of Value, Money)** -Minus costs of cremation= 2.00 RM -Average net profit= 200.00 RM -Total profit after 9 months= 1631.00 RM -This estimate does not include profits from sale of bones and ashes (taken from typical accounting journal established by SS) _This is being a Nazi_ Do you **seriously** think that the typical training in the United States military and police establishments is “blind obedience in following orders”? Please refer to the historical texts involving the Nuremberg Trials of 1945 and its influence on accountability and responsibility of persons holding official offices. “Nazi” does seem a bit excessive in the analogy, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Applebee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@Applebee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Applebee)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/15 "2000-08-13T05:56:23Z")
Now that’s what i call putting things in perspective. Well said, Bluepony. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/16 "2000-08-13T06:09:17Z")
Damn Bluepony… where the hell have you been? I needed some back up earlier. Did you read the other thread yet? ---
**Author:** ![Bluepony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Bluepony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluepony)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bear_nenno-you-are-a-moron/29143/17 "2000-08-13T06:49:13Z")
Actually Bear, I did. I think you gave a pretty good account of yourself, and even managed to have some posters supporting you. Plus, Sportscenter was on, and I can veg in front of ESPN for hours. 😃 They’re just words Bear. It’s good for you to experience that. There are people that focus hostility on police officers because you represent the laws and society. You’re going to have to deal with that, and try to stay level and objective. FWIW, you pretty much said what I would’ve said anyway (minus a few “fucks” here and there} :). If you don’t like the laws, petition and change through the voting process. Basic Civics 101, yeah? In all honesty, I was kinda embarrassed about entering the other thread. A few years back when I was still in the Air Force (military police), we threw a bachelor party for one of my buddies who was stationed at MacDill AFB. Naturally we road-tripped much of Tampa’s cool clubs, had a whale of a time with a pair of Russian (or was it Czech?) strippers after the clubs closed. Suffice to say, our groom was almost divorced before the marraige started and I don’t think any of us did a lot to uphold the Air Force’s image that night. 😃 Yeah, vice laws. I’ve worked one vice detail up here (massage parlor), and it just doesn’t float my boat. I’d rather do a grisly traffic scene than do vice. But, my personal preference and a quarter is a cheap cuppa coffee. It’s what the people of the county want though, and they sign my paycheck. Don’t sweat the small stuff, Bear. This is puppy shit. 😉