# Beatles - Not Even Close To The Best Group Ever. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 19, 2016, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280 "2016-08-19T09:43:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/121 "2016-08-20T17:49:21Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I think the best band ever is the London Symphony Orchestra, but you know me. London, pfffffft. VIENNA PHILHARMONIC KICKS ASS!!! (Flicks his lighter and holds it up in the air) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/122 "2016-08-20T17:59:31Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > London, pfffffft. VIENNA PHILHARMONIC KICKS ASS!!! > > (Flicks his lighter and holds it up in the air) Wow. I thought Phil only donated to the New York Harmonic Orchestra. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/123 "2016-08-20T19:07:47Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > [Emphasis mine] > > I agree with everything you said, but there were others. Compare for instance [1964 successful Kinks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTTsY-oz6Go) to [1967 successful Kinks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3VDATV6dmY), a VERY different kettle of fish. > > ETA: the OP is just silly. Iā€™ve never listened to much of the Kinks. Not because I donā€™t like what Iā€™ve heard, just that I never got into them. I need to pick up some CDs the next time Iā€™m in Rasputinā€™s. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/124 "2016-08-20T19:32:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Iā€™ve never listened to much of the Kinks. Not because I donā€™t like what Iā€™ve heard, just that I never got into them. I need to pick up some CDs the next time Iā€™m in Rasputinā€™s. Consider yourself lucky, thereā€™s a wealth of good music to explore. I recommend _Face To Face_ and _The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society_ (but really, all their albums up until 1972 or so are great). Compare 1964 Kinksā€™ proto punk/garage/heavy rock with what they did just two years later on _Face To Face_, itā€™s miles apart. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/125 "2016-08-20T21:34:09Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > London, pfffffft. VIENNA PHILHARMONIC KICKS ASS!!! > > (Flicks his lighter and holds it up in the air) Everyone talks about how ā€œgreatā€ Vienna Philharmonic is. Vienna Philharmonic isnā€™t so great. They never got their picture on bubblegum cards, did they? Have you ever seen their picture on a bubblegum card? Hmmm? How can you say someone is great whoā€™s never had their picture on bubblegum cards? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/126 "2016-08-20T21:44:19Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Everyone talks about how ā€œgreatā€ Vienna Philharmonic is. Vienna Philharmonic isnā€™t so great. They never got their picture on bubblegum cards, did they? Have you ever seen their picture on a bubblegum card? Hmmm? How can you say someone is great whoā€™s never had their picture on bubblegum cards? For those who donā€™t [get the reference](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b4/9d/b3/b49db312a0ffdaa8bc838efd0836e57c.jpg). ps: I didnā€™t get the reference until I went to search source material to Photoshop the VP into a card (project abandoned) ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/127 "2016-08-20T21:55:23Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > For those who donā€™t [get the reference](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b4/9d/b3/b49db312a0ffdaa8bc838efd0836e57c.jpg). > ps: I didnā€™t get the reference until I went to search source material to Photoshop the VP into a card (project abandoned) I got the quote from ā€œCharlie Brown Christmas.ā€ Didnā€™t know it was a strip, too. Can you play, ā€œJingle Bellsā€? šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/128 "2016-08-20T22:11:17Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > The fact is that the songs that made them famous were, for the most part, written by other people. Hereā€™s a list of Beatles songs that were #1 in the US. AFAIK, they were all written by one or more of the Beatles. [http://www.beatlescruffs.com/beat1.htm](http://www.beatlescruffs.com/beat1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/129 "2016-08-20T22:44:17Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Wow. I thought Phil only donated to the New York Harmonic Orchestra. > šŸ˜ƒ Thatā€™s why they call it the PHIL Harmonic Orchestra. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/130 "2016-08-20T23:18:10Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Hereā€™s a list of Beatles songs that were #1 in the US. AFAIK, they were all written by one or more of the Beatles. > > [http://www.beatlescruffs.com/beat1.htm](http://www.beatlescruffs.com/beat1.htm) In the early 1960s, singles were more important than albums. In fact, in the UK the tradition was to leave hit singles off albums so that people werenā€™t made to buy the songs twice. (The H_ey Jude_ album consisted solely of non-album singles and b-sides and was released only in America so they could be on a convenient album.) Albums had lots of filler on them, not surprising when you consider that they were expected to be finished in a single day, as the first Beatles album was. The Beatles of course loved early American rock ā€˜nā€™ roll and played it constantly in their club days. Putting those songs on their albums was a natural impulse. The Beatles wanted to play them and their fans wanted to hear them. (Americans wouldnā€™t know that they played those songs constantly on their numerous BBC radio dates, but UK fans would demand them.) But singles were different. Record companies wanted groups to put out familiar and famed songs. The Beatles were the first group to successfully fight that. From the beginning they insisted that all their singles be songs they wrote. That alone would be enough to make them a landmark group in 1962. They were the exact opposite of a boy band, therefore. They knew what a boy band was; all of England did. Before the Beatles the stars mostly belonged to [Larry Parnes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Parnes), who would take a hick kid with moderate talent, give him a new attention-getting name, and provide his music. ā€œAmong those he managed with at least some degree of success were Billy Fury (originally Ron Wycherley), Vince Eager (Roy Taylor), Dickie Pride (Richard Knellar), Lance Fortune (Chris Morris), Duffy Power (Ray Howard), Johnny Gentle (John Askew), Terry Dene (Terence Williams), Nelson Keene (Malcolm Holland), and Georgie Fame (Clive Powell).ā€ The Beatles killed that genre and started rock on its path to group-written songs as the default for bands. Itā€™s hard to express just how fantastically wrong the idea that The Beatles were a boy band who didnā€™t write their own songs and were the puppets of others is. It rivals birtherism and creationism for sheer insanity and turning the world upside down. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/131 "2016-08-20T23:24:48Z")
Maybe this should be moved back to CS. Weā€™re all just trading info about music we like. WTF is wrong with us? šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/132 "2016-08-20T23:52:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > In the early 1960s, singles were more important than albums. In fact, in the UK the tradition was to leave hit singles off albums so that people werenā€™t made to buy the songs twice. (The H_ey Jude_ album consisted solely of non-album singles and b-sides and was released only in America so they could be on a convenient album.) Albums had lots of filler on them, not surprising when you consider that they were expected to be finished in a single day, as the first Beatles album was. > > The Beatles of course loved early American rock ā€˜nā€™ roll and played it constantly in their club days. Putting those songs on their albums was a natural impulse. The Beatles wanted to play them and their fans wanted to hear them. (Americans wouldnā€™t know that they played those songs constantly on their numerous BBC radio dates, but UK fans would demand them.) > > But singles were different. Record companies wanted groups to put out familiar and famed songs. The Beatles were the first group to successfully fight that. From the beginning they insisted that all their singles be songs they wrote. That alone would be enough to make them a landmark group in 1962. > > They were the exact opposite of a boy band, therefore. They knew what a boy band was; all of England did. Before the Beatles the stars mostly belonged to [Larry Parnes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Parnes), who would take a hick kid with moderate talent, give him a new attention-getting name, and provide his music. ā€œAmong those he managed with at least some degree of success were Billy Fury (originally Ron Wycherley), Vince Eager (Roy Taylor), Dickie Pride (Richard Knellar), Lance Fortune (Chris Morris), Duffy Power (Ray Howard), Johnny Gentle (John Askew), Terry Dene (Terence Williams), Nelson Keene (Malcolm Holland), and Georgie Fame (Clive Powell).ā€ The Beatles killed that genre and started rock on its path to group-written songs as the default for bands. > > Itā€™s hard to express just how fantastically wrong the idea that The Beatles were a boy band who didnā€™t write their own songs and were the puppets of others is. It rivals birtherism and creationism for sheer insanity and turning the world upside down. Really well done. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/133 "2016-08-21T00:26:04Z")
I think Zekeā€™s animosity is _weirdly_ personal. Like one of the Fab Four slept with mother and then never called her. Or Ringo never answered his letters. He seems far to _invested_ in proving that which is, by all objective measure, a ridiculous premise. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/134 "2016-08-21T00:28:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe this should be moved back to CS. Weā€™re all just trading info about music we like. WTF is wrong with us? šŸ˜ƒ The potential target is in the penalty box and canā€™t be body-checked into the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/135 "2016-08-21T00:40:47Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Really well done. Much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/136 "2016-08-21T04:54:03Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > And Iā€™d bet that when they diverged their bubblegum fans ignored them and they developed different fans. Photo-negative Metallica. Many of heir bubblegum fans deserted them after they left straight bubblegum-pop and they got some new fans based off of their ā€œcounter-cultureā€ re-invention. > > Their old fans still loved the old stuff and still ā€œlovedā€ the Beatles but not the new stuff. Their new fans loved the new stuff but not the old stuff. But they all still _loved_the Beatles. > > Using Metallica as an example I love Metallica. I have no use for anything after ā€œAnd Justice For Allā€. They went from anti-commercial to nothing but a commodity. I will always hold up Metallica as a vitally important band - but Iā€™ll never say they were the best. > > Almost half of the stuff on their first 3 albums werenā€™t written by them. Thatā€™s fine except for the fact that Beatlesā€™ people insist that they wrote their own stuff. The fact is that the songs that made them famous were, for the most part, written by other people. > > Thatā€™s cool if people want to say that the Beatles are the best pop band ever. That I canā€™t argue with. But using other peopleā€™s stuff and singing pop does not equate to bestest band ever. > Fair point but no one is talking about the Temptations or the Four Tops as the greatest. > > And that explains their radio popularity and their derision live. > > All bands handle performing themselves - if they Milli Vannili it then they brutally suck. The Beatles [routinely fake it.](http://lifeofthebeatles.blogspot.ca/2010/05/did-beatles-lip-sync.html). It wasnā€™t Milli Vannil faking but they still lip synced a lot. > > Brittaney Spears caught shit for that, Madonna and others have caught shit for it why not the Beatles? Because they pioneered it? Thereā€™s a reason they stopped touring and it ainā€™t mutual hatred. Their live shows, from most accounts sucked. > > As someone,I truly canā€™t remember who, said ā€œthere are bootlegs of every other band > but not the Beatleā€ \<ā€“ paraphrase. > > The Beatles didnā€™t suck. They donā€™t suck. But they were not then and are not now the paragon that they are held up to be > > They had some good songs, they were listenable, but they were not, and are not, the be all and end of music. Did someone say they were? They must have confused the Beatles with the Duke Ellington Orchestra. Or maybe Count Basie. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/137 "2016-08-21T05:39:30Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I think Zekeā€™s animosity is _weirdly_ personal. Like one of the Fab Four slept with mother and then never called her. Or Ringo never answered his letters. He seems far to _invested_ in proving that which is, by all objective measure, a ridiculous premise. ā€¦Zeke is just an angry poster with a problem controlling his temper. In this thread: > **[Dear Limo Driver and Eight Or So Other Assorted People - Fuck You All With a...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=769450)** > > Way too long - TLDR - I did the right thing the wrong way and encountered a bunch of shit that confirms my slight regard for my fellow man. At about 7:30 tonight my wife and I take the kids out for a pre-bedtime walk around the block. All was going... He witnessed something and passed it onto the limo company, then lost his shit with the poor person on the other end of the phone, then he lost his shit with everyone else in the thread. This thread turning out to be a trainwreck is no surprise at all. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/138 "2016-08-21T16:14:38Z")
I wonā€™t poke \*\*Zeke N. Destroi \*\*with my Bar-B-Que skewer while heā€™s on vacation. Iā€™ll just say I disagree with his assessment of the Beatles. I believe the Beatles were the greatest musical group of all time, and Lennon-McCartney were the greatest songwriters of the 20th century. One may quibble about the meaning and application of ā€œ_great_ā€, but using a mix of all important criteria, not placing the Beatles at least in the top 5 ā€œ_greatest band_ā€ list is absurd. The Beatles started off as a skiffle band, then cut their teeth playing gritty R&R in Hamburg, amassing a large, appreciative European following. Then they switched gears (forced in part by Epstein) in the early '60ā€™s, cleaning up their look and sound and exploded onto the world stage. Then they changed gears again and created a paradigm shift in popular music itself, in much the same way Beethoven broke the Classical mold and ushered in the Romantic era of music. That they did all this in the span of 6 or 7 years is mind staggering. That they did so with no formal musical training is impossibleā€”yet, they did itā€¦and made it look easy. Beatles music was never ā€œ_bubblegum_ā€ or disposable. Even their early pop songs had maturation of form and showed glimmers of the genius to follow. They wrote ~300 songs. I bet a high percentage of the worldā€™s population can hum most of the melodies they created. No matter how you slice itā€”thatā€™s influence. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkCJcbeeTE4) are a few other artists who count the Beatles as influences on their creativity. Some people slight the Beatles, citing George Martin as a significant factor in developing their unique sound. He was. So what? Consider Martin the 5th Beatle. John and Paul were intelligent enough to heed and incorporate Martinā€™s ideas into their music, turning them masterpieces. Sure, the Beatles appealed to multitudes of teenyboppers when they first broke onto the scene. So what? If that was all who they appealed to, perhaps the charge of ā€œ_vapid_ā€ boy-band music could apply. But, the Beatles appealed to young and old alike; amateur enthusiast and professional musician alike. They appeal to accomplished musicians across all genres; many cite them as influences on their own creativity. To have the global appeal that the Beatles maintain to this day isnā€™t a fluke, or simply a marketing success storyā€”itā€™s the result of significant raw talent. The Beatles were the real deal. Once upon a time, we had 4 living generations of Beatles fans in my family alone. Nana listened to Lawrence Welk, Bing Crosbyā€¦and the Beatles. Mom (a WWII British war bride) listened to opera, Vera Lynnā€¦and the Beatles. My older sister (a talented jazz and classical pianist) plays Chopin, Liszt, Beethoven, Bachā€¦, Gershwinā€¦and the Beatles. My oldest daughter listens to Skrillex (ā€¦maybe that was last week)ā€¦and the Beatles. My youngest daughter listens to Florida Georgia Line (country)ā€¦and the Beatles. I awoke to music and have been addicted to the Beatles since I got Meet the Beatles one Christmas as a child. Pop pop called it all hippy crapā€”but what did he know! Sure, the Beatles had only one virtuoso instrumentalist (Paul, on bass). But, thatā€™s not a bug, itā€™s a feature. Would you really want 4 virtuoso Beatles? George shredding a Fender on _Here Comes the Sun_? Ringo going all Buddy Rich on _Octopus Garden_? John singing like Caruso on _Strawberry Fields_? Not me. 1 virtuoso plus 3 solid, reliable instrumentalists, plus 2 of the best rock vocalists in the business, plus a talented producer, plus the finest song-writing team of the 20th century is good enough for me. Can you name one band who has a song-writer as talented as George Harrison in it and have him be only the 3rd best in a group of 4? I canā€™t And, you may not click with Lennonā€™s lyrics, but I donā€™t see how you can call them inferior to any others. His word-salad often non-nonsensical lyrics painted a picture. The picture was often fractured, disjointed and caustic, but almost always powerful, colorful and exactly what the music called for. John was the Picasso of words. The Beatles were fine club and stadium performers. They were stellar studio performers. But, the real magic was the Lennon-McCartney collaborative songwriting. Iā€™m confident that much of their oeuvre will have staying power similar to that of the great classical masters. Iā€™m not so confident about the staying power of Kris Kristofferson or Anthrax. One mark of genius is the ability to take something complex and make it appear simple and accessible. I believe the Beatles did exactly that. Many of their songs sound quite simple on the surface. Yet, thereā€™s something going on under the surface that draws you in, like bees to nectar. If you have a spare 48 minutes, [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQS91wVdvYc) highlights some of whatā€™s going on under the Beatles hood. Paul is a musical prodigy (not unlike Mozart)ā€”he didnā€™t need to be taught his craft; it was innate. John was a tortured, artistic genius (not unlike Beethoven), having lost his beloved mother Julia twice at an early age (first by abandonment, finally by death). Imagine a song-writing team of Beethoven-Mozart. Thatā€™s what Lennon-McCartney is to popular music. I wish the Beatles didnā€™t skyrocket to fame as quickly and intensely as they did. I believe that was a major factor in their breaking up as soon as they did. Not many artists can withstand that level of fame and adulation without cracks forming. Much of the individual Beatlesā€™ music is noteworthy, But, Iā€™d love to have seen what direction Lennon-McCartney and gang would have taken music in the '70ā€™s. If I could do an alternate history, Iā€™d have Brian Wilson join the Fab Four in 1970. Lennon-McCartney-Wilson songs with Beach Boy backing harmony would be joy to experience. I believe the Beatles would have re-united in the 80ā€™s. John was lifting from his mental fog and creating again. The group had a decade to relax and heal old relationship wounds. The world was poised to receive a more mature Beatles sound. Mark David Chapman stole that from us all. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/139 "2016-08-21T19:05:20Z")
Since the one person that everyone was fighting with isnā€™t here, this has turned into a nice discussion about music, so Iā€™m bouncing it back to CS. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280/140 "2016-08-21T20:57:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Since the one person that everyone was fighting with isnā€™t here, this has turned into a nice discussion about music, so Iā€™m bouncing it back to CS. Well I am not going to hold back on this thread. So get ready to put it back. I donā€™t think itā€™s fair to move it back and forth after whatā€™s been posted already. All this ignorant shotgun illogic and abuse and now we have to be polite again because some idiot is still lurking after his suspension? Did you ever think that those with something to say in the pit have been waiting for the conversation to start again? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-not-even-close-to-the-best-group-ever/763280.md?page=8)