The Police made people aware of Ska! Yes you heard it here.
Todd Rundgren on getting the Les Paul award:
A; Growing up, you didn’t really have any sort of regular musical mentorship. You just kind of figured it out yourself.
I was lucky enough to grow up in an era when radio was less formatted. It was really special. You could hear a jazz song then a pop song then a show tune then some jazz. Basically whatever the DJ felt like playing, he would play. He was educating you and exposing you to things you would never hear otherwise. That became a huge part of my education.
Q: And then a band like the Beatles comes along and all of a sudden there’s a new form of education.
A: Exactly. I really consider myself fortunate to have been of age during the musical revolution that came in the form of the Beatles. People don’t realize that previous to the Beatles, there really was no such thing as an album artist. People made singles. Then they would put a bunch of those singles together and call it an album. And that was it. The Beatles were actually the first ones to put out an album specifically with those singles on it. ‘Sgt. Pepper’ had no singles on it. People don’t realize that the two singles equated with the album are not even on there. Those would be ‘Penny Lane’ and ‘Strawberry Fields Forever.’ They essentially foreshadowed the ‘Sgt. Pepper’ album, but they came out before the album did.
Read More: Exclusive: Todd Rundgren On His New Foundation and the Beatles’ Influence | Exclusive: Todd Rundgren On His New Foundation and the Beatles' Influence
I’m suspending Zeke N Destroi for two days since he ignored moderator instruction and rather than let him flame out in a suicide by mod fashion, I’m going to give him something akin to a time out or cooling off period. I’m also going move this thread to The Pit, where it probably should have been started in the first place.
Zeke N. Destroi, when you come back, follow moderator instruction and DO NOT insult others or call them insulting names outside of the Pit or your posting privileges will be discussed and you may be suspended for a longer period of time.
http://die-augenweide.de/byrds/speak/aboutbeatles.htm
David Crosby - Goldmine 1995
They (The Beatles) were our heroes. They were absolutely what we thought we wanted to do. We listened to every note they played, and savored it, and rubbed it on our foreheads, and were duly affected by it. I was in Chicago, living with a British guy named Clem Floyd on Well Street, right in the middle of it all.
I was singing at Old Town North and Mother Blues. I was trying to quit smoking, and the way I figured to quit was to buy a quarter-pound of pot, which I rolled and smoked every time I wanted a cigarette. I’m not saying to try this at home, kids - but it worked. So I was in a high old state of affairs, and Clem walked in one afternoon with that first Beatles album, Meet the Beatles. He put it on, and I just didn’t know what to think. It absolutely floored me- “Those are folk-music changes, but it’s got rock and roll backbeat. You can’t do that, but they did! Holy yikes!”
I ate it for breakfast. The Byrds never tried to imitate the Beatles, ever. We always had more ideas than we needed about how to do it our own way. I don’t think anybody would say that the Byrds’ stuff sounded like the Beatles’ stuff. The Beatles certainly didn’t think so. They told us they liked our music because it really was our music. Our own synthesis, our own mixture of the musical streams we’d been exposed to.
Yeah, (I was close with John Lennon). I guess I can say it now - 'cause nobody can give John any shit for it - but we all ate sugar cubes one time. But the only thing I ever did that really impressed John was showing him an E-modal chord with no major or minor in it. He loved that chord, immediately glommed that chord completely. It was the only time he ever gave me a real smile, and was obviously happy with me. We were just fooling around, playing guitar.
He and I had a fairly nice friendship going until one time I visited him in New York in the studio, and every time I’d ask him a question, You-Know-Who would answer it. I finally said, “Can we go out in the hall and talk or something?” And John said, “Where I go, Yoko goes.” And I said, “Well, it’s been great, John - see ya.” It was just too frustrating. She was constantly inserting herself, constantly demanding to be seen as an equal. An equal artist, even - and she was standing next to a guy who changed the world. It pissed me off too much. I expect that happened with a lot of people.
Yes, I know he is out for a couple, but for when he comes back ( hopefully less incensed) :
Never said you did. I just asked if you could be converted to considering them ONE of the “greatest”, as in top five -tenish. Rather than merely "The Beatles were a decent band whose importance far outweighs their merit." Because up until then you seemed rather dismissive of most arguments you had presented with. Then immediately after I posted you acknowledged Paul McCartney’s influence - good for you. Shows an open mind. You needn’t have bothered ranting at me as I’m not a gigantic Beatles fanboy, though I like them okay. Mostly post-1966.
But I do acknowledge their outsize importance in the history or rock and unlike you I think that importance is merited, not an accident of timing or manufactured by slick outside producers. Were they technical wunderkind instrumentalists, the finest musicians in all the land? No. But as many have noted they are an excellent example of the sum exceeding the parts. The fact that they continued to grow and change musically as they progressed and never became stale retreads of their early incaranation is just one example of their creative ability and vision.
But y’know, MHO and all that. My musical tastes clearly differ from yours - for example I think Kristofferson was a talented songwriter, but I do not particularly like listening to him( other artist doing his stuff is different ). Getting all evangelical about your somewhat controversial thesis as you did early on is not a recipe for a reasonable dialogue.
So many examples by the OP of the band being huge influences on others, and yet it somehow doesn’t count because they weren’t necessarily referenced individually. It’s already been accurately stated that, as talented as each member was, as the band they were more than the sum of their parts. What a bizarre little hill to die on.
Really needed to have included this from the Todd interview .
Q: And much like the DJs you talked about, the Beatles went off on a lot of excursions that clearly influenced you, along with many others.
A:They absolutely did. The Beatles themselves were not satisfied to stay in one genre and work that genre to death. They were constantly incorporating new influences and I’m sure that George Martin had a lot to do with that. I’m not sure the Beatles would have ever said, “Why did we get a trumpet voluntary to play on ‘Strawberry Fields?’” But George Martin, with his copious musical knowledge said, that’s what we’ve got to get. We’ve got to get a trumpet voluntary into the song. And so that combination of producer and artist led to the genres that the Beatles would toy with and then discard. And then another band would pick up one of the genres and build a career around it. For instance, the Beatles did ‘Eleanor Rigby.’ And then what happened? A band called of the Left Banke essentially wrote ‘Eleanor Rigby’ for every song they did (laughs). Every song, like ‘Just Walk Away Renee’ had strings on it (laughs).
Read More: Exclusive: Todd Rundgren On His New Foundation and the Beatles’ Influence | Exclusive: Todd Rundgren On His New Foundation and the Beatles' Influence
What a maroon! The move to the Pit was wise. Now we can mock him like he deserves. When he comes back, of course. It isn’t sporting to kick a moron when he can’t flail back.
Man, driven to the pit? Wow, and I kept meaning to post when things were reasonable. In my defense, that escalated quickly. Anyone stab a man in the heart with a trident?
Bleah, There was a wall of text here, but I deleted it because it amounts to: This kind of question can only be resolved on a personal level, at best. No band is quantitatively the best ever. Now, there are people who will declare the Beatles are, but they’re deluding themselves. You can argue most popular, more complex songwriting, etc. all day long. But that’s still not going to make anyone actually like them, which is the unit of measure that “best” is gradated in. It’s not a quantitative (if difficult and easy to manipulate) measure like popular, so there’s no way to convert between them even if one could honestly measure them reliably.
And since it’s the pit: people who deify the Beatles as being something more than a popular band and bore the shit out of me by talking about their supposed vast influence outside of music have poo-poo pee-pee pants. There, I said it.
I must admit, this made me laugh.
mmm
Thank you. We appreciate your thoughtful moderation.
Our hapless ranter seems to be saying that since the individual Beatles weren’t each the most celebrated practitioners of their respective musical roles, they weren’t that good of a band. That’s his meaningless premise, and it has been fun watching him get so wound up and expend so much energy and type so many, many words trying to impress his point upon those with a more balanced perspective.
So dear Zeke: We know Harrison wasn’t the most sizzling guitarist, Lennon wasn’t the gutsiest singer, and Ringo wasn’t the flashiest drummer (McCartney, however, was the most advanced bassist of his time and has not been eclipsed). The Beatles weren’t a collection of individual superstars. The synergy from their collaboration is what made the group so remarkable. Harrison was more than adequate for what the band was doing (which was NOT showing off hot licks), Lennon brought a perspective unseen before him, Ringo’s drumming was perfect for each song (and different for each so as to fit it), and of course McCartney was splendid. Furthermore, the Lennon/McCartney songwriting blazed new ground for a good while, drawing increasing admiration over time as they matured and evolved. The whole package was exemplary and is highly regarded for good reason.
If you think that the individuals not being the most renowned at their craft means that the group wasn’t so good, you could profit from thinking a little deeper. You have been missing the point.
I’m not even a big Beatles fan but the OP really does have his head up his ass.
Who the fuck cares what someone else likes or doesn’t like anyway? I was more or less like the OP in that I grew up with The Beatles, and although I liked them OK, I didn’t really care for them enough to buy any albums. I was more into CSN&Y, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Moody Blues, Simon and Garfunkel, The Animals, The Rolling Stones, CCR… lots of different stuff. I’ve always really like Dylan, even from when I was too young to really appreciate him.
Now, we Boomers love to wax nostalgic about the 60s, but they really were a time of huge social change, and that was reflected in the music. It seemed like every month or so so new band arrived not he scene with a new sound and we’d be saying: Wow, never heard anything like this before! Still, The 60s and The Beatles are sometimes hard to separate since they were so firmly intertwined.
Funny thing is, I started listening to The Beatles again about 10 years ago, and found I really appreciated their music much more than when I heard it growing up. I still like all the other stuff I grew up with, but can now add The Beatles to the list, 30-40 years after the fact. I used to switch the station whenever Sgt Pepper’s came on, but now I count that album as one of my favorites. Are they the best band ever?? I can’t even fathom an answer to that question or why anyone would even ask it. There is so much good music out there, and the idea that it has to be ranked in some way detracts from appreciating it in the first place.
But “Walk Away Renee” predates “Eleanor Rigby” by a month, so far as I can find. At least when it was released.
Actually, perhaps even earlier. Wikipedia says July 66 for Renee, but other sources have it at February. Eleanor was released in August and recorded in April and June.
Ahh, the beauty of “Walk Away Renee” I think that song came out right about the first time I got dumped by a girl and it really hit a cord, no pun intended. That song always has a special place in my heart!
Beautiful tune, and considered by some/many as the first Baroque pop single, but you know how contentious it can get defining what one song was the first in a given genre. I also love “Pretty Ballerina.” Just a haunting piano line. Both Michael Brown wrote when he was 16.
I think the best band ever is the London Symphony Orchestra, but you know me.
I think Todd was overstating a little. I have been listening to a lot of Left Banke recently. Check out this vid of a modern day 3 piece LB, with only the original drummer, doing “Desiree” from the second LP. What a great song.