# Beatles vs Meatles vs Leatles: Who Reigns Supreme in the Multiverse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [May 29, 2025, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962 "2025-05-29T16:47:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/1 "2025-05-29T16:47:51Z")
Let’s dive into a hypothetical alternate timeline (or two): The Meatles: Paul McCartney never meets John Lennon. Instead, he forms a band with George Harrison, Ringo Starr, and Marty—an adequate lead guitarist, okay backing vocalist, and a modestly helpful songwriting partner (he mostly adds a few chords and lyrics to Paul’s songs). The Leatles: John Lennon never meets Paul. He teams up with George, Ringo, and Larry—a solid bass player, adequate backing vocalist, and a modest songwriting partner who occasionally adds a line or two to John’s material. In both alternate universes, the bands follow a similar early trajectory: they cut their teeth during a wild stint in Hamburg, then become fixtures at Liverpool’s Cavern Club. They are both discovered and managed by Brian Epstein, and later work with George Martin as producer—just like in our timeline. Everything else is the same… except that Lennon and McCartney never meet. Questions: 1. Which band finds more success, commercially and/or critically? 2. Does either band break into the American market (and the world stage) like the Beatles did? 3. Which band sticks together the longest? 4. And—subjectively—whose music do you think you’d prefer? Assume George and Ringo remain about as talented and influential as they were in our timeline. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/2 "2025-05-29T17:08:54Z")
Whichever one between John and Paul that take Harrison more seriously will be the most successful. Harrison was also a genius that the pair didn’t give much room on the albums for. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/3 "2025-05-29T17:22:14Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > Marty—an adequate lead guitarist, okay backing vocalist, and a modestly helpful songwriting partner Who shows a surprising lack of knowledge about 1960’s cultural norms and insists on joining the band after accidentally injuring Lennon with a futuristic car because otherwise “My parent’s won’t fall in love and I would never exist!” ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/4 "2025-05-29T17:22:17Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > - Which band finds more success, commercially and/or critically? > - Does either band break into the American market (and the world stage) like the Beatles did? > - Which band sticks together the longest? > - And—subjectively—whose music do you think you’d prefer? 1. The Meatles 2. Yes, give a slight edge to Meatles 3. Tie 4. The Leatles I think John’s music got a big push and exposure by Paul’s ‘granny’ songs that got airplay. I’m not sure John could have made it on his own, without Paul. Also, John’s work ethic wasn’t what Paul’s was. Edited to add: Is it “Beatles” or “The Beatles”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/5 "2025-05-29T17:55:57Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Whichever one between John and Paul that take Harrison more seriously will be the most successful. Harrison was also a genius that the pair didn’t give much room on the albums for. Just to be clear: do you believe Lennon plus McCartney plus a couple of backup singers — a solid guitarist and a solid drummer — _stomp_ either the Meatles or the Leatles? ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/6 "2025-05-29T18:04:52Z")
Long term, probably McCartney. He has always enjoyed performing. Apparently John used to, but got jaded. And Yoko muddies that water. Let me fire up the alternate-universe-o-tron. Damn. Capacitor has blown out again… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/7 "2025-05-29T18:23:12Z")
Does seem likely. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/8 "2025-05-29T18:32:54Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Is it “Beatles” or “The Beatles”? **The** Beatles, as seen on Ringo’s drum kit and the spine of just about all their albums. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/9 "2025-05-29T18:35:39Z")
Boy, this is taking a lot of thought, so for now I’ll just drop the only aphorism I’ve ever made up… Backstory: My best friend in 6th grade was a cynical rebel (and sometimes jerk), and someone asked me why he’d even hang around someone as optimistic and “sunny” as me. I shrugged and said _“I guess every Lennon needs a McCartney.”_ . So the Beatles reign supreme. Or maybe the version where John gets therapy, doesn’t let Yoko sing, and he and Paul let George’s genius shine. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/10 "2025-05-29T18:43:39Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > The Meatles: Paul McCartney never meets John Lennon. Instead, he forms a band with George Harrison, Ringo Starr, and Marty—an adequate **lead** guitarist, okay backing vocalist, and a modestly helpful songwriting partner (he mostly adds a few chords and lyrics to Paul’s songs). George was the lead guitarist, John played rhythm guitar. (Mostly, with many exceptions.) A band with two lead guitarists would have been more interesting and a big break with what was standard. But you probably meant that Marty was a rhythm guitarist if he’s replacing John. Short term, The Leatles probably does better. John was the leader and the better songwriter. Paul took several years to catch up. Over that longer time, John’s drug use would sink the band just like it did The Beatles. Paul’s more eclectic taste in songs - what John called “Granny music” - would encourage a broader audience to build a base off of. There still might have been a British invasion in America. Too many great bands with unbelievably catchy songs that were miles ahead of all but a few American bands were pushing at the door. Both bands would have been a part of that. Without the charisma and lovable personalities of four melding into one giant image, though, no one group would dominate until maybe later in the decade when the Stones would take over. Whose music I’d prefer? Ask me which color not in the rainbow is best. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/11 "2025-05-29T19:01:33Z")
The Lennon-McCartney partnership was pure alchemy—greater than the sum of its extraordinary parts. Both had successful solo careers (especially Paul, who practically invented post-band productivity), and both produced some stellar music. But the Beatles’ unique magic vanished with their split. There was just something ineffable in the blend: McCartney’s melodic optimism tempered by Lennon’s caustic introspection. Yin and yang. Fire and water. Post-Beatles, Paul could drift into saccharine sweetness, while John sometimes veered too bitter—but I still liked most of what they made. As for George, his Beatles contributions were among their most hauntingly beautiful, though limited—not for lack of talent, but lack of space. His post-Beatles work let him fully bloom, but I do think the Beatles would have been nearly as successful without him. Less so if they’d had a flashy shredder instead—virtuosity would have drowned the songs. And Ringo? Criminally underrated. His no-frills, in-the-groove drumming was the band’s rhythmic glue. The Beatles could’ve survived without him—but the sound would’ve lost its soul. A wildman like Keith Moon or Bonham would’ve overcooked the stew. Ringo gave it just the right simmer. Now, on to the hypothetical: Paul’s Meatles (with George, Ringo, and Marty) would likely outlast John’s Leatles (with George, Ringo, and Larry). Paul was a production powerhouse—especially in the later years when John’s focus waned. Paul pushed the Beatles forward. But I still mourn John’s murder deeply. It came just as he seemed ready to emerge from a long creative hibernation. A brutal loss—for his family and for the world. So, Meatles or Leatles? Tough call. The Meatles would have churned out more songs, and many would be good-to-great. But if I had to choose… I think I’d still go Leatles. Lennon’s music transported me to places McCartney rarely dared. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/12 "2025-05-29T20:02:57Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > The Lennon-McCartney partnership was pure alchemy—greater than the sum of its extraordinary parts. And because they worked together and influenced one another from a relatively early age, it’s hard to say what John would have been like if he had never met Paul, and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/13 "2025-05-29T20:10:03Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > John was the leader and the better songwriter. Paul took several years to catch up. Hmm, really? I’ve never heard this expressed. I’ll need to investigate. Care to expand on this a bit? > [@Tibby](#): > > And Ringo? Criminally underrated. His no-frills, in-the-groove drumming was the band’s rhythmic glue. His fills were second to none. > [@Tibby](#): > > I think I’d still go Leatles. Lennon’s music transported me to places McCartney rarely dared. I agree but I still contend that it was Paul’s marketability that brough Lennon to the fore. I’m not sure Lennon’s music alone could have done that back during that time period. > [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Let me fire up the alternate-universe-o-tron. > Damn. Capacitor has blown out again… Temu again!? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/14 "2025-05-29T20:15:35Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > > John was the leader and the better songwriter. Paul took several years to catch up. > > Hmm, really? I’ve never heard this expressed. I’ll need to investigate. Care to expand on this a bit? John was older than Paul, who was older than George. In the early years when they were all young, that made a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/15 "2025-05-29T20:16:42Z")
I feel that Lennon and McCartney needed each other to become the Beatles. Working side by side, they competitively drove each other to put maximum effort into their work and rise to a higher level. When they split up, they both lost that edge. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/16 "2025-05-29T20:41:55Z")
I’ll say Meatles top Leatles. Paul was celebrity level cute. Pre-fame, John was worried that he himself wasn’t good-looking enough to be a star. But I suppose he could have found himself another pretty boy. John was the original leader (due to age, personality, and maybe talent), but Paul’s greater drive would have eventually led him to success. And once successful his gift for melody would have kept him successful. I think of Paul as the best melodist of his generation and a musical genius — with John and Dylan being greater creative talents. But Meatle Paul’s career could have surpassed Elton John’s, Billy Joel’s, etc. John’s demons would have derailed him fairly early. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/17 "2025-05-29T20:42:27Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > The Meatles: Paul McCartney never meets John Lennon. Instead, he forms a band with George Harrison, Ringo Starr, and Marty—an adequate lead guitarist, okay backing vocalist, and a modestly helpful songwriting partner (he mostly adds a few chords and lyrics to Paul’s songs). Their debut album is promptly pulled from the shelves after the moral authorities object to the title “Beat the Meatles.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/18 "2025-05-29T21:47:23Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Hmm, really? I’ve never heard this expressed. I’ll need to investigate. Care to expand on this a bit? First, let me say that John and Paul made each other better. They were one of the best partnerships in the history of music. Even so they needed George Martin’s production genius to make their songs just plain sound better than anyone could have imagined. We know that they worked together on most of their early songs, which makes teasing out individual contributions tough. When you look at who took lead vocals, though, songs do seem to conform to the personalities of who sings lead. Paul sings many of my favorites, which include most of their prettiest songs. John hated pretty, although he sings lead on the pretty - and magnificent - “In My Life.” He took the lead on most of the rockers. OTOH, many of the early singles that shot them to fame used both as lead singers. Going out on the limb, I think that Paul could always write pretty melodies but needed a few years to introduce the grit and complexity that John could bring from the beginning. Trying not to fight the OPs hypothetical (you _can’t_ split them - aaarrgghhh!), I think a John rock band would outdraw a Paul pop band. Paul would be another Gerry and the Pacemakers, John would be a Dave Clark Five with more originals. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/19 "2025-05-29T21:56:44Z")
Although John’s early Beatles songs appeal to me more than Paul’s, I think Paul is easily the more successful solo composer. John really needed someone like Paul to push and challenge him. Paul didn’t need that as much. Sparks of genius alone aren’t enough to sustain an original band. While John might slightly edge out Paul in inspiration (10% or success), Paul was doing the heavy lifting in the perspiration (90%) required of the formula for success. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962/20 "2025-05-29T22:00:01Z")
The Tweatles. John, Paul, George, Ringo and Tom Waits. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beatles-vs-meatles-vs-leatles-who-reigns-supreme-in-the-multiverse/1018962.md?page=2)