# "Because I said so." - Denying children's critical thinking and reasoning skills? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951 "2013-01-21T22:06:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/81 "2013-01-23T19:07:24Z")
Sometimes it is just because I said so. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/82 "2013-01-23T19:08:31Z")
When my chickee get sassy with me and don’t wear his gloves, I got what he lookin fer in the tool shedd! I walk him right in ther an I say “RODERICK! Pick you yer shovvel and yer hedstone and _git you to diggin yer naughty hole_!” then while he diggin i sharpen up my disciplin blade. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/83 "2013-01-23T19:27:48Z")
> [@heat1](#): > > Yeah, how is carrying a jacket the same as wearing one??? It isn’t, but it does allow the child to understand WHY you want him to wear a jacket, without having to suffer through an entire trip without a jacket. Unless it’s bitter cold out, the kid isn’t really going to drop dead or get sick from being outside without a jacket. He’s just going to be uncomfortable. So, let him be uncomfortable. If he’s willing to carry the jacket, then he can decide he wants it when he gets cold, and you have taught him a lesson instead of just demanding that he follow your instructions. ---
**Author:** ![heat1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@heat1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heat1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/84 "2013-01-23T20:29:36Z")
Demanding that he follow my instructions??? I think thats exactly what a child should be taught right from the git go. If its cold out, and you tell your kid to put his jacket on …thats all . End of story. The kid will wear the jacket because its cold because said kids mother gave him instructions to do so. Period. ---
**Author:** ![heat1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@heat1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heat1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/85 "2013-01-23T20:31:03Z")
LOL my kids hate me btw 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SweetiePotato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SweetiePotato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetiePotato)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/86 "2013-01-23T21:35:48Z")
Ugh. My husband and his ex-wife utilize a “liberal” parenting style which involves always asking their son what he wants and then negotiating from there. But this has led to an 8-yo who thinks he has power of negotiation over EVERY DECISION. It’s maddening. Everything’s a debate. I love the kid and I want him to be happy, too, but I wish they told him “Because I said so” MUCH more often. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/87 "2013-01-23T21:43:49Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I think that children tend not to say things like this: > > It is fine in principle but sometimes you get nowhere trying to explain something to a child. And sometimes we are just being lazy. This. The role of parent and child is not one of debate team nor is it a democratic process. A child will often “why” an adult until hair starts to fall out. “can I go to the park” is simply replaced with a thousand other requests. I shut these attempts down with a few choices so the child is left with some feeling of control. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/88 "2013-01-23T21:48:36Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It isn’t, but it does allow the child to understand WHY you want him to wear a jacket, without having to suffer through an entire trip without a jacket. Unless it’s bitter cold out, the kid isn’t really going to drop dead or get sick from being outside without a jacket. He’s just going to be uncomfortable. So, let him be uncomfortable. If he’s willing to carry the jacket, then he can decide he wants it when he gets cold, and you have taught him a lesson instead of just demanding that he follow your instructions. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/89 "2013-01-23T22:00:37Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > As much as I advocate discipline, I would happily accept your situation if not for two flaws. > A) You don’t barter with a child and playing mind games with them is nothing short of wasted manipulation on an under developed mind. You can’t ‘talk’ to a two year old - using ‘tactics’ to avert their defiance only leaves them more confused. > B) The jacket is there for a reason concerning health, not convenience. Making them carry it serves no purpose in that regard. > > Maybe if you we were discussing an exercise in how to make a child compliant than your method suggested is effective - as I said, not into manipulation. Offering alternatives is not manipulation. Look, if you tell your child to put their jacket on and they say “No!” _it’s not about the jacket_. It’s about the child wanting to have control. So as the adult in the situation you have a choice – you can turn it into a battle for control that you will win after punishment and tears. Or you can create a option that responds to the needs that the child is actually expressing. You give them a meaningless choice that lets them have a little control of the situation and move on. I guarantee you that if it really is cold the child will quick decide that they actually would rather wear their jacket instead of carrying it. And the kid learns a valuable lesson, namely that when daddy suggests wearing a jacket, maybe he knows what he’s talking about. Sometimes punishment and tears are worth it. I remember one time really making my son feel awful when he broke the rule about running into the street. But over a jacket? That’s just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/90 "2013-01-23T22:01:53Z")
My kids know that they are not allowed to argue with me. If they present alternatives to what I tell them in a mature and thoughtful manner I will consider it. Sometimes they will get their way, sometimes they won’t and I’ll tell them why. If they argue they never get their way and I will offer up very little explanation. If they want to be treated more like responsible adults (they are not they’re tweens) then they have to act that way. Arguing, whining or nagging will not get them their way. And I see no reason to waste my time engaging them in conversation when they are acting that way. Sometimes they get it and we reach an accommodation. Sometimes they don’t and its because I said so. They are learning. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/91 "2013-01-23T22:02:22Z")
I’m not a parent. I think a child has plenty of opportunities to develop critical thinking and reasoning. But when the parent says something has to be done, there should be understanding of parental authority. Sometimes there aren’t going to give reasons, and you just have to do as you’re told. At school the teacher doesn’t have time to hold each snowflake’s hand and explain why they need to come in from recess now. At work when your boss asks you to do something, he doesn’t have to explain why this benefits the company, it’s enough that he can tell you what to do and can expect you to do it. I think “Because I said so” and “While you live under my roof you’ll follow my rules” are perfectly fine. When the kid gets old enough, hopefully she’ll want to escape from the terrible tyranny, get a job and move out. StG ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/92 "2013-01-23T22:09:55Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > My kids know that they are not allowed to argue with me. If they present alternatives to what I tell them in a mature and thoughtful manner I will consider it. Sometimes they will get their way, sometimes they won’t and I’ll tell them why. If they argue they never get their way and I will offer up very little explanation. If they want to be treated more like responsible adults (they are not they’re tweens) then they have to act that way. **Arguing, whining or nagging will not get them their way.** And I see no reason to waste my time engaging them in conversation when they are acting that way. Sometimes they get it and we reach an accommodation. Sometimes they don’t and its because I said so. They are learning. I agree with putting down “whining or nagging” but extremely disagree with trying to stop “arguing”. In my opinion, arguing should be permitted. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/93 "2013-01-23T22:23:26Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > The jacket is there for a reason concerning health, not convenience. Making them carry it serves no purpose in that regard. Neither does making them wear it – you can’t get sick merely from being cold. (I’m not saying that kids shouldn’t have to obey their parents, but having them carrying said coat isn’t going to make a difference in health) ---
**Author:** ![huck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/94 "2013-01-24T00:09:02Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Thank you for saying what I was saying much more nicely than I was managing to put it together. I think a lot (though not all, or even most) of “age-appropriate” explanations are really “bullshit kids will accept”, and it’s better to say "You’ll have to trust me on this’ than to give a reason that’s simplified to inaccuracy. I am just really, really sensitive about lying to kids, and while I recognize that the line is really blurry at times, my personal preference is to err on the side of honest, even if that means not explaining on occasion. But what in my example is a lie or in any way dishonest? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/95 "2013-01-24T01:40:07Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Maybe your kids are different, but mine ( and I as a child ) would have heard that as “Because I said so” or “for good and sufficient reasons, and you will have to trust me that I have your best interest at heart” . It’s really the same idea, just in different words. You’re not explaining _why_ it is that you are not comfortable ( and I’m not suggesting you should) , just stating that you _are_ uncomfortable and therefore they will not be spending the night. > [@huck](#): > > But what in my example is a lie or in any way dishonest? It’s vague to the point of borderline dishonesty. “Don’t like the way they do things” could mean you don’t approve of the food they serve, or that you don’t like that they let the kids watch TV or whatever. If, in reality, you don’t trust them to properly supervise your kids, that’s the reason. You clearly don’t feel like your kids had a right to know that. Saying “I don’t like how they do things” isn’t an explanation, it’s just another way to say “I have my reasons”. And you distorted my original scenario: I didn’t say “don’t trust the other parent to supervise”, I said “think the other parents are creepy”. I was thinking more like a scenario where you think the other mom probably drinks and probably would drive the kids around soused, or you think stepdad stares at the girls a little too long, or you think the whole family is so trashy that your kids will probably come home with lice\*. In situations like that, “I don’t like how they do things” really is a lie. \*Yes, I know lice can happen in the best of families. ---
**Author:** ![huck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/96 "2013-01-24T01:51:27Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It’s vague to the point of borderline dishonesty. “Don’t like the way they do things” could mean you don’t approve of the food they serve, or that you don’t like that they let the kids watch TV or whatever. If, in reality, you don’t trust them to properly supervise your kids, that’s the reason. You clearly don’t feel like your kids had a right to know that. Saying “I don’t like how they do things” isn’t an explanation, it’s just another way to say “I have my reasons”. > > And you distorted my original scenario: I didn’t say “don’t trust the other parent to supervise”, I said “think the other parents are creepy”. I was thinking more like a scenario where you think the other mom probably drinks and probably would drive the kids around soused, or you think stepdad stares at the girls a little too long, or you think the whole family is so trashy that your kids will probably come home with lice\*. In situations like that, “I don’t like how they do things” really is a lie. > > \*Yes, I know lice can happen in the best of families. Huh. Sorry, I wasn’t trying to distort anything, just to give an example of something in my own experience that I thought was akin to the scenario you proposed. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/97 "2013-01-24T15:11:39Z")
I honestly don’t think it hurts, unless you do it all the time. While eventually you want your child to understand why they should do things, it’s not vital that they always understand. You can teach critical thinking while still teaching them to do what they are told. They aren’t mutually exclusive concepts. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/98 "2013-01-24T15:16:57Z")
I honestly don’t think it hurts, unless you do it all the time. While eventually you want your child to understand why they should do things, it’s not vital that they always understand. You can teach critical thinking while still teaching them to do what they are told. They aren’t mutually exclusive concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/99 "2013-01-24T16:07:38Z")
Weird. I posted and the post disappeared. I try to avoid the “because I said so” comment, and instead explain or get a buy-in from my son. (He’s 9). However on the rare occasion I have had to say “JUST. PLEASE DO THIS NOW”, he is pretty co operative, because I so seldom use this trick. I just asked him about this, he said “You usually explain which makes me happy and understand, and usually remember for next time.” ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951/100 "2013-01-24T19:20:09Z")
> [@Soylent\_Juicy](#): > > My mom used to say “BECAUSE I’M THE MOTHER AND YOU’RE THE CHILD!!” > > Drove me f’in nuts because it made me, an only child who was raised to be very independent, feel powerless. ☹ How awesome it was the day when my mom was being a little snarky about something I was doing with my kid, and I got to say … “but Mom, now I’M THE MOTHER.” That comeuppance was YEARS in the making. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-i-said-so-denying-childrens-critical-thinking-and-reasoning-skills/647951.md?page=6)