# Because it needs it, I pit The War in Iraq
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [May 28, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958 "2008-05-28T23:29:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/121 "2008-05-29T21:31:18Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
:dubious: Let’s try to find some standard that can show the distinction between Winston Churchill and Genghis Khan, shall we?
[/QUOTE]
You cannot find such a standard. You can only make up such a standard. And in the end those with the power will decided if they want to live up to such a standard. And if they truly have the power, nobody can stop them. Power is the ultimate arbitrator.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/122 "2008-05-29T21:35:49Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
You cannot find such a standard. You can only make up such a standard. And in the end those with the power will decided if they want to live up to such a standard. And if they truly have the power, nobody can stop them. Power is the ultimate arbitrator.
[/QUOTE]
By that sort of “reasoning,” the U.S. has no moral or ethical justification for being in Iraq, such considerations being irrelevant; and no practical justification either, since our presence there has served only to diminish our power and help our enemies win recruits; and we have no reason not to pull out, since any resulting bloodbath will not be our problem.
---
### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/123 "2008-05-29T21:40:52Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
By that sort of “reasoning,” the U.S. has no moral or ethical justification for being in Iraq, such considerations being irrelevant; and no practical justification either, since our presence there has served only to diminish our power and help our enemies win recruits; and we have no reason not to pull out, since any resulting bloodbath will not be our problem.
[/QUOTE]
Pulling out could increase the influence of Iran in the region, which can be reasonably viewed as being bad for the US. Also, a failed state in Iraq could increase instability in the region.
Why do you put reasoning in quotes? Can you provide a standard that is not made up and that will trump power?
---
### Author:  [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/124 "2008-05-29T21:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
Is this your unusual response when the facts get in the way of your prejudice?
[/QUOTE]
You know, **2.5** , you say your not a troll and yet you go around making bold proclamations like you have balls of steel. I’m starting to think you’re nothing more than a punk. Classic definition of course. I’ll bet you’de wiggle around like a little worm at the sight of a picture of the boys undergarments section in a Sears catalog, wouldn’t you now. 😃😃😃
You get three smiley faces for that one, funboy!!
---
### Author:  [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/125 "2008-05-29T21:51:25Z")
[According to a recent CNN report, Pentagon and UN experts have estimated that US-led military forces used between 1,100 and 2,200 tonnes of depleted uranium during the invasion of Iraq. The amount far exceeds the 300 tonnes of depleted uranium used in the 1991 Gulf War and the 10 tonnes used by NATO forces during the bombing of Serbia in 1999.](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/may2003/depu-m29.shtml)
Better? Point being, anyway you look at it, it’s **criminal**. By Law.
---
### Author:  [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/126 "2008-05-29T21:57:24Z")
BTW, from the original cite, it appears to me that the man knows quite well what he is talking about:
> [@Philip N. Ledoux](#):
>
> …Let us combine these facts with some geography.
>
> Iraq is about the size of the state of California or 437,072 Square KiloMeters which is equal to 168,743 Square Miles.
>
> This transforms into a square with sides of 411 Miles or 661 KiloMeters.
>
> Sq. root of 14,218 = 119
>
> If we exploded an Hiroshima bomb every 3.45 miles (5.55 KiloMeters) in an easterly and southerly direction for 411 Miles (661 KiloMeters), it would total the 14,218 bombs and thusly 1,820 tons of DU.
>
> An A-Bomb zone of total destruction is greater than 3.45 miles (5.55 KM) in diameter; thusly it would translate into total destruction or nuclear winter! We have the same nuclear fallout without the blast, thusly life continues; yet those lives will be dramatically shortened by horrible nuclear decay by-products. A nuclear bomb fall-out without the blast effect, every 3.45 miles; that draws a very dramatic picture of what has been done to Iraq. As you drive to work (or anywhere) count off every 3 and a half miles and picture an A-bomb fallout; quite a concentration of deadly fallout isn’t it?
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/127 "2008-05-29T22:03:24Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
Why do you put reasoning in quotes? Can you provide a standard that is not made up and that will trump power?
[/QUOTE]
Your asservation is not reasoning. As for standards of judgment, all of which including yours are “made up” by definition, there are several.
An interesting discussion of the ethics of war is to be found in From [url=]_Vietnam: The Necessary War,_ by Michael Lind – Chapter 7, “Was the Vietnam War Unjust?”:
> [@](#):
>
> Arguments about the justice of the Vietnam War, like most debates about justice in foreign policy, exhibit the traits of a certain class of moral arguments identified by the philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre – they can never be resolved, because the debates belong to incompatible moral traditions and reason from different moral premises. In his book After Virtue (1981), MacIntyre provides rival views of justice in war as the first of his example of “interminable” contemporary moral debates:
>
> 1. (a) A just war is one in which the good to be achieved outweighs the evils involved in waging the war and in which a clear distinction can be made between combatants – whose lives are at stake – and innocent noncombatants. But in a modern war calculation of future escalation is never reliable and no practically applicable distinctions between combatants and noncombatants can be made. Therefore no modern war can be a just war and we all ought now to be pacifists.
>
> (b) If you wish for peace, prepare for war. The only way to achieve peace is to deter potential aggressors. Therefore you must build up your armaments and make it clear that going to war on any particular scale is not necessarily ruled out by your policies. An inescapable part of making this clear is being prepared both to fight limited wars and to go not only to, but beyond, the nuclear brink on certain types of occasion. Otherwise you will not avoid war and you will be defeated.
>
> (c) Wars between Great Powers are purely destructive, but wars waged to liberate oppressed groups, especially in the Third World, are a necessary and therefore justified means for destroying the exploitative domination which stands between mankind and happiness.
>
> For the sake of comprehensiveness, it is useful to add to MacIntyre’s list what might be called the “militarist” or “fascist” argument:
>
> (d) Social life, like biological life, consists of unceasing struggle for survival and domination. The most glorious human type is the warrior, and the only life worth living is one of armed combat against national or personal enemies. Peace is a contemptible state, tolerable only as an intermission in campaigns to conquer or avoid being conquered.
>
> Adherents of these four views of morality in war have very little to say to one another, beyond stating their positions. “From our rival conclusions we can argue back to our rival premises,” MacIntyre observes, “but when we do arrive at our premises argument ceases and the invocation of one premise against another becomes a matter of pure assertion and counter-assertion. Hence perhaps the slightly shrill tone of so much moral debate.”
However, to be truly comprehensive, we should add a fifth, the “imperialist” or “piratical” argument:
(e) War is not necessarily desirable or glorious in and of itself. It is, however, a perfect legitimate means for a nation or state to win territory, resources, power, or anything else that might serve its national interests. Independent sovereign states, even if internally ordered by laws and social and moral norms, exist in a perpetual state of nature in relation to one another, because “international law” is an oxymoronic and meaningless concept in the absence of any international government with the power to enforce it. A perpetual competition for power and wealth is therefore inevitable, and any nation too scrupulous to participate will fall prey to other states with less tender consciences. Now lie down on the floor and remain calm.
I venture to suggest that theory (e) has played a more important role in influencing the actual behavior of states and leaders throughout history than the other four combined. I even see it, in effect, occasionally defended in this Forum.
And several times in this thread.
I hope I do not need to explain why (e), while less insane than (d), is no more defensible.
---
### Author:  [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/128 "2008-05-29T22:04:11Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury]
BTW, from the original cite, it appears to me that the man knows quite well what he is talking about:
[/QUOTE]
It appears that [oldmanfromnh@yahoo.com](mailto:oldmanfromnh@yahoo.com) is extrapolating from his ass. While my earlier calcs. did NOT include other types of DU munitions (I solely focused on tank munitions), you can easily replicate the math yourself and see that claims of “thousands of tons” of spent DU particulate matter floating around Iraq is at best specious, at worst a flat out lie.
---
### Author:  [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/129 "2008-05-29T22:27:06Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury]
[According to a recent CNN report, Pentagon and UN experts have estimated that US-led military forces used between 1,100 and 2,200 tonnes of depleted uranium during the invasion of Iraq. The amount far exceeds the 300 tonnes of depleted uranium used in the 1991 Gulf War and the 10 tonnes used by NATO forces during the bombing of Serbia in 1999.](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/may2003/depu-m29.shtml)
Better? Point being, anyway you look at it, it’s **criminal**. By Law.
[/QUOTE]
What law?
Again, you are assuming that all of the DU used in any given munition is entirely converted (resuspended) into the dangerous particulate matter so hazardous to people. Spent DU that is not resuspended is of no particular health hazard.
Here’s a helpful [pamphlet](http://postconflict.unep.ch/publications/DUflyer.pdf) put out by the U.N.
[Here’s another study](http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/du_ii/du_ii_tabm.htm) on the aerosolization effects of DU tank rounds, which indicates that on average, about 18% of the mass of a DU munition is converted to particualte DU dust.
---
### Author:  [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/130 "2008-05-29T22:31:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
So you’re saying we should regime-change a list of dictatorships **and** make a 15-25-year commitment to nation-building in each?! Have you failed to notice we have not the resources for any of that? That we’re overstretched as it is?
And, again, the real question, which you keep dodging: **What gives us the right?** America ain’t so special. We’re not sovereign over this world and there is no basis by which we can claim exemption from the same standards by which all other nations’ actions are judged.
[/QUOTE]
You really should read what I posted a little closer. Hint: Post #108.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/131 "2008-05-29T22:40:21Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave]
You really should read what I posted a little closer. Hint: Post #108.
[/QUOTE]
Nothing in post #108 constitutes an ethical argument in justification; nor offer any way around the limited-resource problem.
Your argument – or, rather, unstated assumption – **seems** to be that any one-sided war of aggression is justified if it will replace a dictatorship with democratic rule; at any rate, that appears to be a basic neocon argument. Please consider that this is merely a variation of the (Marxist) theory (c) listed in post #127.
---
### Author:  [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/132 "2008-05-29T22:54:50Z")
Except for the fact that I am talking about we (the western world) not we (the USA). You, and I and everyone else posting to this board live safe, comfortable lives, with food, shelter, medical care, protection of the rule of law and ample leisure time. When something happens like Burma, hell yes we should go in, en mass, execute the junta, rebuild the country, jump start the economy, establish a framework of laws that apply to everyone and guide the citizens in creating a stable government that derives it’s authority from the just consent of the governed. This will probably take a couple of decades. When we’re done, we should do the same in Sudan. And so forth. People will die in this process. It’s unfortunate but inevitable, however more people will be able to live fuller, richer lives when we’re done as opposed to simply existing, which is what they do now.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/133 "2008-05-29T22:59:21Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
Ultimately there are no rights―only power. Power is its own justification.
[/QUOTE]
_Mecht macht Recht._ A quite ancient fallacy. I direct your attention to Plato’s [_Republic,_](http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext98/repub11.txt) Book I, the dialogue between Socrates and [Thrasymachus.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrasymachus#In_Plato) (Thrasymachus gets his ass kicked.)
---
### Author:  [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/134 "2008-05-29T22:59:26Z")
Thank you, **Ex-Tank** , for after reading your UN pamphlet I feel that the US is absolutely justified in using DU.
From you link:
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Do not enter known DU targeted sites prior to site decontamination.
>
> If entry is necessary, wear personal
> protective equipment (PPE) including
> rubber boots, gloves and as a
> minimum a dust mask.
>
> Additional caution should be taken as DU is frequently used in combination with cluster bombs during an
> attack. Not all cluster bombs detonate during an attack and a few may still be present on such sites.
>
> Attacks may have also taken place in mined areas.
>
> If DU munitions are found or suspected, do not touch or pick it up.
>
> Mark the exact location with a flag and/or a circle of paint and leave it on site.
>
> Contact and inform the relevant authority about the finding.
>
> Only authorized personnel with PPE are permitted to handle DU.
>
> Authorized personnel will take the necessary health and safety precautions before removal and proper storage of DU.
>
> Effects of DU can be long-term with the resuspension of particles and groundwater contamination. Effects of DU can be long-term with the resuspension of particles and groundwater contamination.
>
> Therefore, local authorities should monitor the site on a regular basis.\*\*
Hell’s bells, ping-pong appears to be an extreme sport compared to DU.
Thank Og the US of A is on top of such thing. Surely Iraqui civilians are well-versed on all the particulars. :rolleyes:
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/135 "2008-05-29T23:04:11Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave]
Except for the fact that I am talking about we (the western world) not we (the USA). You, and I and everyone else posting to this board live safe, comfortable lives, with food, shelter, medical care, protection of the rule of law and ample leisure time. When something happens like Burma, hell yes we should go in, en mass, execute the junta, rebuild the country, jump start the economy, establish a framework of laws that apply to everyone and guide the citizens in creating a stable government that derives it’s authority from the just consent of the governed. This will probably take a couple of decades. When we’re done, we should do the same in Sudan. And so forth. People will die in this process. It’s unfortunate but inevitable, however more people will be able to live fuller, richer lives when we’re done as opposed to simply existing, which is what they do now.
[/QUOTE]
It would take “a couple of decades” just to get the whole West on board with the program; and the U.S. can’t and won’t do it alone.
And, you keep saying “hell, yes we should” as if that were self-evident. Again, **what gives us (the U.S. or the West as a whole) the right?**
[Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=339251) a way to achieve substantially the same result in a process that would take even longer but without force or bloodshed.
---
### Author:  [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/136 "2008-05-29T23:06:36Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
Ultimately there are no rights―only power. Power is its own justification.
[/QUOTE]
You should read [Plato’s Republic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_%28Plato%29) , Thrasymachus.
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/137 "2008-05-29T23:07:15Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave]
Except for the fact that I am talking about we (the western world) not we (the USA). You, and I and everyone else posting to this board live safe, comfortable lives, with food, shelter, medical care, protection of the rule of law and ample leisure time. When something happens like Burma, hell yes we should go in, en mass, execute the junta, rebuild the country, jump start the economy, establish a framework of laws that apply to everyone and guide the citizens in creating a stable government that derives it’s authority from the just consent of the governed. This will probably take a couple of decades. When we’re done, we should do the same in Sudan. And so forth. People will die in this process. It’s unfortunate but inevitable, however more people will be able to live fuller, richer lives when we’re done as opposed to simply existing, which is what they do now.
[/QUOTE]
Except by your own argument the US and every other country is a cold amoral machine that would never, ever do any such thing, and would only invade Burma in order to exploit it.
---
### Author:  [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/138 "2008-05-29T23:39:07Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
What have the powers-that-be done that causes the perception that American children are being herded into stadiums and that there are soldiers on the streets of America?
Please be specific.
[/QUOTE]
‘Please be specific’? How about the president pretty much deciding that he may sign away any rights of people, citizens or otherwise, that he pleases, and call it all on the case of the terrorists / war? How about laws like habeus corpus (sp?) being suspended for many?
And before you shout ‘cite’, let me remind you; this is global perception. People see it in the news and hear about it a lot. This is what’s making a shame of our country.
Oh, and on further reading, from your quotes about power, I can see you’re a neitzchian (if that’s the correct spelling / term) at heart. Somehow doesn’t surprise me much. Power equals goodness in your mind, I take it?
> [@](#):
>
> “Ultimately there are no rights―only power. Power is its own justification.”
I get this feeling from reading your words that arguing perception, both global and local, of personal rights will be an exercise in futility.
---
### Author:  [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/139 "2008-05-29T23:41:04Z")
**Red,** your selective reading skills are phenomenal. But first, let us dispense with your strawman: I never said there weren’t any negative health effects associated with DU. My contention was the good Doctor’s claim of hundreds or thousands of tons of DU material falling on Iraq “as we speak.” I also did some elementary math to show the number of munitions that would have to be used to come up with her figures.
Again, let me spell this out for you in plain, moron-level English: a 1,000 pound DU-enhanced projectile does NOT have 1,000 pounds of depleted uranium in it. The M-829 APFSDS-T ( **A** rmor **P** iercing **F** in **S** tabilized **D** iscarding **S** abot, **T** [ul]
[/ul] racer) is a 40 pound round, consisting of a self-consuming cartridge case, propellant, plastic sabot, and DU penetrator. It looks like this in cross-section.
And here’s a few selected quotes for _you_:
> [@](#):
>
> The radiological toxicity comes from DU radioactive decay, mainly through emission of alpha particles. These particles do not have the ability to penetrate the skin. However, if ingested or inhaled DU dust may irradiate the lungs or gut (epithelium), thereby causing a radiation dose. The dose is
> most often very small from inhaled and ingested DU because of low air concentration or low oral intake.
>
> **At low levels of exposure, as expected in most post-conflict situations, the additional risk of cancer is thought to be very low. Importantly, any radiation effects based on DU occur only in the long-term, requiring typically 10-20 years before symptoms appear - if ever. In those penetrators measured by UNEP, minute traces of plutonium exist, but on such low levels that this doesn’t increase the overall health risks.**
> [@](#):
>
> Non-explosive radioactive metallic core bullets:
> -DU munitions are made of a non-explosive, solid metallic core bullet (called a penetrator).
> -Tanks fire larger calibre rounds (105 and 120mm).
> -Aircraft fire smaller calibre rounds (20 - 30 mm).
> -DU is not confirmed to be used in bombs or missiles.
> [@](#):
>
> Some have suggested these aerosols can kill anyone in a tank, travel tens of miles from the source, and thus present a hazard to everyone on the battlefield. In reality, while respirable-size particles can travel with air flow for some distance, test data indicate airborne concentrations at even 5 to 10 meters from the point of impact are not a radiological or chemical concern.
> [@](#):
>
> Numerous studies of the effects of inhaled or ingested uranium in humans have not conclusively documented increased death rates or effects on the immune or nervous systems. Other studies have looked at several common effects uranium could cause. Uranium miners have experienced an increased risk of lung cancer, which scientists agree is attributable to other substances, such as tobacco smoke, radon, and radon’s short-lived radioactive decay products. Heavy metals also may affect the liver, but high doses are required to produce observable effects. Although animal studies have suggested possible liver injury from uranium, it has not been found in anyone exposed to DU, including workers at uranium testing sites, even when exposures were much longer and much higher than Gulf War veterans’. Some studies have noted reproductive effects in some groups of workers handling uranium, but the exposures always were combined with exposures to other substances (e.g., radon or tobacco products) that the studies usually identified as the cause. Animal studies show some effects on DNA and other systems, but the exposure levels are orders of magnitude higher than those possible in military or industrial settings. Research on embedded DU (see Section V) indicates possible effects on litter size in rats.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/because-it-needs-it-i-pit-the-war-in-iraq/450958/140 "2008-05-29T23:45:51Z")
[QUOTE=ArrMatey!]
Oh, and on further reading, from your quotes about power, I can see you’re a neitzchian (if that’s the correct spelling / term) at heart. Somehow doesn’t surprise me much. Power equals goodness in your mind, I take it?
[/QUOTE]
[Nietzsche on morality.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietszche#Morality)
Flashing on an old [Gahan Wilson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gahan_wilson) cartoon: A nerdy professor type is sitting in a bar next to a huge android robot. Professor to bartender: “He’s programmed to take me home the moment I start quoting Nietzsche!”
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