# Becoming a father **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2013, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278 "2013-03-07T10:02:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/101 "2013-03-08T11:49:19Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Why did you quote the word “disgusting”? I don’t think I’ve called her belly that. Repulsive perhaps. But that is one aspect of her. Maybe some people think their partner is repulsive for not shaving their legs or because they pick their nose, etc. But anyway not much would change if she was a 3. Though she often talks about losing weight so that I’d find her sexier, etc. I apologise, I misremembered. You are right, it was “repulsive”. Though I must admit I see very little difference in this case, I retract my quote, to be replaced with “repulsive”. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/102 "2013-03-08T12:03:50Z")
**JohnClay** , you may not remember, but I previously defended you on this forum, with regards to getting married. I continue to believe that you have every right to be married and hope that you and your wife have a good marriage. That said, this is really something that should have been agreed between you and your wife **before** you got married. If one person wants a child and the other doesn’t, those people should not marry. Based on your forum threads, I do not think you should have a child. Becoming a father is a life-long commitment to raising a fully-functioning member of society. I do not believe you have the tools to do that well, and I don’t believe you even want to - you can work this out for yourself by asking yourself the question, ‘If my wife said she didn’t want kids, would I be relieved and glad?’ You should definitely not have a child because you don’t want to deal with your wife being upset. That is a ridiculous reason to create a new life. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/103 "2013-03-08T12:08:42Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > You have a very literal mind and you like considering all things carefully, I consider things in an iterative way - in my spare time new ideas come to me. Over time I get a better idea of things and messageboards help me think about things from all angles. > [@](#): > > From your posts here it becomes cloear that your ideas of what having children is like, are not yet realistic. I’m already aware of the things you’ve mentioned, but my thoughts come from all directions and I usually just focus on one train of thought. Sometimes I think the thoughts are coming from a good place e.g. John Gottman. BTW in the past I identified with fundy Christians and young-earth creationism, primitivism, mysticism, liberal politics, etc. BTW as far as your points go, I’ve asked my wife a few times what is the longest amount of time she’s looked after babies - I encouraged her to get as much experience with babies as possible. > [@](#): > > 1. The attractiveness of your wife is important to your happiness. She says she doesn’t think having a baby will affect her belly. It will. She will be less attractive. If she claims otherwise she is not realistic about pregnancy. I agree that it isn’t realistic but she won’t listen to me about that. She is has many admirers and some say she’s “truly beautiful” - I like her being in demand. The attractiveness in her face, hair, arms, etc, will probably never leave her to a significant degree so I’d still be attracted to her. I’m also attracted to her humor (it is quite crazy - we banter a lot) and mannerisms, etc. > [@](#): > > 1. She says she will look after the baby. Even if this were a puppy you know it would not be true. This is a baby. A baby needs care all the time. You were right that she will need to get up in the night, and so will you. She will be tired sometimes, or she will be away. You will spend huge amounts of time taking care of a baby. If she says otherwise it is because she is not realistic about having a baby. You need to be prepared to do 100% of the work, or you should not have a baby (though of course you should plan to do 50%, you should understand that you are taking on the burden to do 100% if necessary). That’s ok. > [@](#): > > 1. A baby is constant. All. The. Time. They cry a lot. They poop and you _have to_ change the nappy. When things were difficult with your wife you left. With a baby you can’t do that. I only left my wife because I couldn’t justify to myself that she was “beautiful”. I didn’t want to lie to myself. I told her that I didn’t love her enough. Now my definition of “beautiful” is different - e.g. like “attractive”. But not like in the song “When you’re in love with a beautiful woman” (implying that it is a very rare kind of beauty). > [@](#): > > 1. Your interaction with children has been inappropriate and you have been having inappropriate thoughts about children. You may not be able to help that, but it does indicate that it is not a good idea to have children. There is a difference between unwanted thoughts that pop into my head and ones I agree with and act on. > [@](#): > > 1. Your wife wants children and you think she will be happy if you have them. But there is too much you and she are not being realistic about, so that in the end she will likely not be happy. She wants a kid and she needs to find out for herself. BTW I’ve tried to say all of the negative things about them - e.g. that many women get depression about them, etc. But I haven’t mentioned all of those discussions here… I was trying to get to the point. > [@](#): > > 1. Children need a stable, safe home with responsible parents. That is absolutely possible with parents who have certain mental problems, but in your current situation, from what you have told us, it does not sound like you can offer that. We are VERY responsible financially and in all other areas I can think of. She has saved up a large amount of money and saves a further $100+ (I don’t want to be too specific) each fortnight. She has wanted a kid since she was a teenager but she hasn’t been married so couldn’t have a kid earlier. She used to party a lot when she was younger but insists she NEVER had a one night stand. She gave up alcohol and cigarettes COMPLETELY. Even though she’s a Christian she doesn’t give money to the church, which I’m happy about. We don’t play mind games, etc. She doesn’t follow through with diets and exercise but I’m not sure if that is something that responsibility is about. > [@](#): > > Why don’t you tell us what you imagine it will be like, or other things your wife imagines, and then we can tell you if that is realistic? I try to have low expectations and not be surprised if things turn out badly. Then I can sometimes be pleasantly surprised. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/104 "2013-03-08T12:18:03Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Aww, rats. :mad: Going to brace yourself for the ole lady? Tell her she’s not _that_ ugly for me, k? 🙂 And come back soon! I asked you three times to respond to a specific post I wrote to you and you only quoted the first bit: > [@](#): > > **I’ve got to go for a while.** BTW Ambivalid - I’m waiting for your reply… You went to the trouble of editing out the part of my post that was directed specifically at you and responded to the first bit… I’ve lost some respect for you. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/105 "2013-03-08T12:24:57Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I’ve lost some respect for you. Now that’s a very special kinda shame, **Ambi**.☹ ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/106 "2013-03-08T12:33:33Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > **JohnClay** , you may not remember, but I previously defended you on this forum, with regards to getting married. Yeah I remember, thanks. > [@](#): > > That said, this is really something that should have been agreed between you and your wife **before** you got married. If one person wants a child and the other doesn’t, those people should not marry. Probably most prospects would also want kids or already have kids! Though the situation isn’t ideal in every way, it is like what a nurse asked me - do the positives outweigh the negatives? When I broke up with her I wasn’t sure but now I think the positives easily outweigh the negatives. > [@](#): > > Based on your forum threads, I do not think you should have a child. Becoming a father is a life-long commitment to raising a fully-functioning member of society. I do not believe you have the tools to do that well, I’ve been exposed to quite a lot of videos and books - which talk about various ways to raise them - e.g. some without spanking or shouting… and I think I can have very long patience… apparently many problems involve the parent not being consistent and giving in. BTW a few months ago I was playing around with a kitten. I ended up lying on the floor and it lay on my chest and purred. It was the first time I’ve EVER heard a cat purr in real life. And I’ve connected with young kids quite a lot in the past. > [@](#): > > and I don’t believe you even want to - you can work this out for yourself by asking yourself the question, ‘If my wife said she didn’t want kids, would I be relieved and glad?’ Sometimes people don’t particularly want what’s good for them. e.g. if someone said that I didn’t need to exercise or wake up in the morning I’d be relieved. > [@](#): > > You should definitely not have a child because you don’t want to deal with your wife being upset. That is a ridiculous reason to create a new life. I don’t mind upsetting my wife if it is going to be in the short term but not having a kid would devastate and traumatize her. She might feel used. BTW have you heard the saying that people usually only regret what they haven’t done, not what they have done? Also I was learning about story writing and apparently the protagonist only changes if they’re FORCED to. If I didn’t have a kid I’d basically be in a little rut. I wouldn’t have achieved much in life. But if I had a kid I’d have a lot in common with most of my old classmates. I think being a parent would cause me to grow a lot as a person and in the past I’ve been quite a fan of self-help materials. BTW I have been listening to stuff from hypnosis [downloads.com](http://downloads.com) lately and they said that there was a study done into students that had practiced musical instruments since the same age. The study basically found that the world class ones had practiced for 10,000 hours, the good ones had done 8,000 hours and the ok ones had done 4,000 hours. Well gotta go… ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/107 "2013-03-08T17:20:07Z")
You made a kitten purr? Well, hell, man, you _must_ reproduce! ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/108 "2013-03-08T17:52:46Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > So making my wife feel devastated and not allowing her to have a life-long dream and possibly divorcing her even though we mostly both feel fine is in my wife’s “best interest”? She gets upset enough with theoretical problems like that I might leave her (she worries about that sometimes). She would get highly traumatized. Oh no, I promise you that if your wife were to have a baby with you, she would be even more devastated and highly traumatized than you can imagine at this time. This is not even touching what a child would experience having you as a father. Your posts on this board are evidence that your mental processes are not normal. Not to mention the posts in which you have admitted to touching animals inappropriately and having sexual thoughts about children. Do not have children. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/109 "2013-03-08T17:56:53Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > Have you discussed the two of you getting a mediocre dog instead? Christ, no. DO NOT BRING A DOG INTO THIS TRAINWRECK. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/110 "2013-03-08T18:02:49Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > Christ, no. DO NOT BRING A DOG INTO THIS TRAINWRECK. Or a kitten. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/111 "2013-03-08T18:13:49Z")
Based on some of his past threads I don’t think **JohnClay** takes a lot of the advice he gets. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/112 "2013-03-08T18:48:39Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I’ve lost some respect for you. But you still have _some_, right? If it’s good enough for wife, I can’t complain. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/113 "2013-03-08T19:04:06Z")
You’re basically at like a 4 for him, **Ambivalid**. High enough to fuck, just below the marrying threshold. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/114 "2013-03-08T19:19:27Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > You’re basically at like a 4 for him, **Ambivalid**. High enough to fuck, just below the marrying threshold. > [@JohnClay](#): > > But anyway not much would change if she was a 3. Hmmphh! Says _you_! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/115 "2013-03-08T19:21:56Z")
Ok fine. You’re a 2. Are you happy now? ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/116 "2013-03-08T19:42:05Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > Christ, no. DO NOT BRING A DOG INTO THIS TRAINWRECK. An acceptable parakeet, then. Or a _comme ci comme ca_ goldfish. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/117 "2013-03-08T19:59:25Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Ok fine. You’re a 2. Are you happy now? Don’t try’n steal me away from my man! ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/118 "2013-03-08T20:00:54Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > An acceptable parakeet, then. Or a _comme ci comme ca_ goldfish. Or maybe a mediocre stuffed animal. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/119 "2013-03-08T20:06:23Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Or maybe a mediocre stuffed animal. How 'bout we start with a collection of rocks and see how that goes? ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/120 "2013-03-08T20:38:38Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > How 'bout we start with a collection of rocks and see how that goes? Not shiny ones, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278.md?page=7)