# Becoming a father **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2013, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278 "2013-03-07T10:02:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/161 "2013-03-09T06:52:01Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > That’s not always a good attitude - people don’t become millionaires with that attitude, etc. They take calculated risks. Excuse me, but that’s a terrible attitude re children. Millions can be made and lost and only affect one person, but if you bring a child into the world and it doesn’t work out, it affects a minimum of three people, yourself, your partner and most importantly the child. Aren’t there enough messed up people in the world not to be taking chances unless 100% certain that you really really want a child, and are prepared to do everything that you can for that child? ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/162 "2013-03-09T06:52:47Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > BTW we hadn’t french kissed until recently > … at the moment I just randomly move my tongue around. Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/163 "2013-03-09T07:00:16Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Even if she was a 10 I wouldn’t want to… partly because of the pubic hairs (though perhaps a “10” wouldn’t have pubic hair) and also because it might taste or smell funny… and also because it is just weird… I’d rather just kiss them or have regular sex, etc. I’ve talked about it with my wife and we agree that fellatio is ok while cunnilingus is a bit disgusting. My wife has mentioned having done the 69 position in the past but didn’t like it that much. If she didn’t like it, it wasn’t being done properly, same as sex in any other position. If something as enjoyable as sex is seen as disgusting, perhaps one needs to do some self examination as to whether one should be having sex at all, IMO. Seems a bit selfish wanting oral yourself, but not being prepared to give it. However, how ever did we get from fatherhood to 69? ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/164 "2013-03-09T07:04:00Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > On the wedding day I kissed her a few times… > [http://pictat.com/i/2013/3/2/39809kissing.jpg](http://pictat.com/i/2013/3/2/39809kissing.jpg) The man in that picture looks like he has two mouths. That’s F’d in the A. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/165 "2013-03-09T07:28:34Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I was asking my wife if she’s prepared to be the main one to take care of it. I’m just seeing how committed she is. I’d help quite a lot though. > I don’t think 5:1 or 6:1 ratios are that bad… they’re based on real research rather than most self-help stuff that is based on intuitions or what they’ve tried in their limited experience. (5:1 ratio was based on very extensive studying of hundreds of married couples) Not when it comes to parenthood. I’m not a parent, but common sense tells you that you shouldn’t go into it unless you’re committed to that kid 100%. It’s not just her kid, with you as the “helper”. > [@](#): > > The kid’s upbringing would be full of love and mental stimulation. It would be a better environment than having a single working mother. Or being raised in poverty and if a parent lacked some respect for the partner or the kid… or if a parent wasn’t responsible and couldn’t delay self-gratification, etc. You seem to think my kid would have low self esteem - but what about my wife? I mean she loves me an incredible amount and would love the kid a lot (and tell them about it, etc). A lot of parents just expect too much from their kids - THEY are more likely to have wounds. BTW in a movie called “The Karen Carpenter Story” a doctor said that a thing in common with anorexic girls is that their parents don’t say they love the kid. Karen’s mother refused to. But eventually she told Karen she loved her and Karen stopped being anorexic. On the other hand me and my wife often say we love each other - and the same with our relatives. Also I’m familiar with the “5 love languages” which talk about people’s emotional tank. I use all of the love languages with my wife and she does it back. I don’t see why I wouldn’t do the same with my kid. > > BTW about half of marriages involve cheating and/or divorce. Surely my loving marriage is a better environment to raise a kid in than in many of the other environments. :smack: You don’t set out to bring up a kid in an environment where it’s “well, it’s better than”. You set out to be the best damned parents you can. And no, you’re not “just going to go back to having sex.” Kids don’t just pop back to sleep. Are you prepared to stay up until four am, with a sick kid? She can’t do it alone – she’s going to need your support too. And it’s not fair for HER to sit up, night after night, while you snooze away. My cousin’s daughter had constant ear infections that kept her up through the night. (She had to have tubes put in). What if the baby has colick? My parents said I had it so bad all I did was cry through the first three months of my life. What if mom is sick and needs YOU to watch the baby? Not Grandma. Not Auntie. Daddy. YOU will be that kid’s father. It’s not a puppy. And again, mental illness runs in the family. Yes, you have it under control now. But have you ever heard of post-partum depression? And considering you’ve both been hospitalized, dude that’s not common. Hell, ever hear of post-partum psychosis? Please, PLEASE, I’m begging you, go over THESE ISSUES with your wife. Grow a pair and look at all sides! Just because you don’t want to make her cry or upset her isn’t a reason to have a child. In fact, it’s one of the stupidest reasons I’ve heard yet. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/166 "2013-03-09T07:52:33Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > …You set out to be the best damned parents you can. I’ll try to be a good parent. That’s good enough in my book. And I’ll do what I can to provide them with a good upbringing and provide for them, etc. > [@](#): > > And no, you’re not “just going to go back to having sex.” Kids don’t just pop back to sleep. We could have sex while they’re awake! I’m talking about a baby in a cot next to us. > [@](#): > > Are you prepared to stay up until four am, with a sick kid? Yes… I’d just look on my iPad or listen to audio books or something to pass the time. > [@](#): > > She can’t do it alone – she’s going to need your support too. And it’s not fair for HER to sit up, night after night, while you snooze away. I think it is better if she’s PREPARED to do that… then she can be pleasantly surprised if I help rather than just expect it. > [@](#): > > My cousin’s daughter had constant ear infections that kept her up through the night. (She had to have tubes put in). What if the baby has colick? My parents said I had it so bad all I did was cry through the first three months of my life. What if mom is sick and needs YOU to watch the baby? Not Grandma. Not Auntie. Daddy. YOU will be that kid’s father. It’s not a puppy. Her mother lives a 7 minute walk away. Her 12 year old niece that could also help lives there. And her brother’s wife to be, who has a diploma in child care (including caring for babies) could help. And my parents live about 30-40 minutes away… in the hypothetically situation where it is necessary for me to do it, I could! And I’d probably help even when it wasn’t absolutely necessary. > [@](#): > > And again, mental illness runs in the family. Yes, you have it under control now. But have you ever heard of post-partum depression? Yes I’ve told my wife that a few times. BTW there is a community support group down the road for it and both of us see psychiatric doctors every week even though I never have psychiatric problems except for some tears which I wrote a thread about. > [@](#): > > And considering you’ve both been hospitalized, dude that’s not common. Hell, ever hear of post-partum psychosis? Yeah her sister got that I think, > [@](#): > > Please, PLEASE, I’m begging you, go over THESE ISSUES with your wife. Grow a pair and look at all sides! Just because you don’t want to make her cry or upset her isn’t a reason to have a child. In fact, it’s one of the stupidest reasons I’ve heard yet. When I say being devastated I mean being upset for weeks or months. It could make it very hard to trust a guy again… at the moment she is very comfortable with me and pours out a lot of love and affection. And also tells me whenever she has a disagreement with her. Earlier in the relationship she was saying she has to “guard her heart”. I think marriage is partly about compromise and Doctor Laura Schlessinger said something like the purpose of marriage is having children. I don’t fully agree but it is something I keep in mind. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/167 "2013-03-09T07:57:35Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > If she didn’t like it, it wasn’t being done properly, same as sex in any other position. Well we’re content to not try doing it for the moment but might experiment one day. > [@](#): > > If something as enjoyable as sex is seen as disgusting, If oral sex is sex then what about anal sex? If one type of sex is seen as disgusting it doesn’t mean that sex in general is. BTW my wife said that her mother hasn’t even had oral sex. > [@](#): > > perhaps one needs to do some self examination as to **whether one should be having sex at all** , IMO. We’re both happy with our limited range of techniques. We’re married so we “should be” having sex. > [@](#): > > Seems a bit selfish wanting oral yourself, but not being prepared to give it… Well when I was about to get back together with her I sent her a message that I’d be more selfish if we got back together. And she didn’t seem to mind. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/168 "2013-03-09T08:07:33Z")
Oh FFS…we’re being yanked here folks. Stop feeding his weirdness, he might just go away. Please?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/169 "2013-03-09T08:13:50Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Oh FFS…we’re being yanked here folks. I WISH we were being trollololed. I’ve met people like this - there really are people whose grasp of the subtlety and nuance of emotion never progresses past the literal. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/170 "2013-03-09T08:14:28Z")
I think people’s objections cause me to think about my thoughts/behavior… if I never talked about it with other people and got feedback I might get increasingly weird. BTW remember my earlier threads about being Satan, etc? Well now I think I’m basically delusion free, at least free of unusual delusions. Lately I even went back to being agnostic. I went from having zero romantic experience to being happily married with a mutually rewarding sex life. Having a kid would make me even less weird I think. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/171 "2013-03-09T08:20:15Z")
> [@OleOneEye](#): > > I WISH we were being trollololed. I’ve met people like this - there really are people whose grasp of the subtlety and nuance of emotion never progresses past the literal. Yes initially it never progressed past the literal, but after reading some self-help material I have discovered that women can say one thing and mean another. e.g. if they say they’re busy when you ask about a date, it is just a convenient excuse and they wouldn’t have agreed to the date even if it did fit in their schedule. The way to tell if they are actually interested is if they suggest an alternative time. I have learnt to see what things people say or do “imply” including body language. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/172 "2013-03-09T08:23:48Z")
> [@OleOneEye](#): > > I WISH we were being trollololed. I’ve met people like this - there really are people whose grasp of the subtlety and nuance of emotion never progresses past the literal. But have you noticed that as the thread advances, the weirdness intensifies…he’s sitting back cracking up with maniacal laughter every time someone tries to engage him on a reasonable level, then throws another turd on the pile to increase the rage. Meh, whatever, if it keeps you amused. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/173 "2013-03-09T08:25:46Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Oh FFS…we’re being yanked here folks. > > Stop feeding his weirdness, he might just go away. > > Please?:rolleyes: BTW what would happen if I did what some suggest and divorced my wife so that she could have her dream and have a baby… and then I stopped posting here? I’d be on the look out for sex… I’d be approaching women and/or signing up on dating sites or trying to get a mail-order bride… but I might think that I would be ruining the day of the girls… unless I were to get more self-esteem. I’d want to share my inner world… I guess I could tell my psychiatrists/case managers. Anyway now I’m becoming more self-actualized… ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/174 "2013-03-09T08:28:13Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > But have you noticed that as the thread advances, the weirdness intensifies…he’s sitting back cracking up with maniacal laughter every time someone tries to engage him on a reasonable level, then throws another turd on the pile to increase the rage. > > Meh, whatever, if it keeps you amused. It is partly based on the banter that me and my wife have. She says things like “I love your farts”… I reply things like “even my stinky ones?” ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/175 "2013-03-09T08:30:16Z")
BTW there is a type of person who puts on masks who isn’t sure who they really are - like in the movie “I Heart Huckabees”. ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/176 "2013-03-09T08:31:28Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > But have you noticed that as the thread advances, the weirdness intensifies…he’s sitting back cracking up with maniacal laughter every time someone tries to engage him on a reasonable level, then throws another turd on the pile to increase the rage. I don’t think that’s what’s going on here. Maybe I’m being naive, but I don’t see a troll keeping the character internally consistent for _12 years_. It may look like the weirdness is intensifying, but it could just be unfolding the way conversations usually do - details, discussion and questions, more details, more discussion and questions, etc. I could be wrong, but I can’t dismiss the idea that this is exactly as it appears. It’s just too plausible, based on actual people I’ve met. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/177 "2013-03-09T08:59:03Z")
BTW I talked to my wife about problems with having a baby… I said that she sometimes is unwell up to two times a week - but if she relaxes for a while she gets over it. Anyway she said that she could take the baby to day care one or two times a week… (remember also that long list of people that can look after the baby, including my parents) ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/178 "2013-03-09T10:24:26Z")
Daycare costs me $85/day. Have you looked into how much it will cost you? Also, don’t have a baby. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/179 "2013-03-09T10:38:06Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > Daycare costs me $85/day. Have you looked into how much it will cost you? Apparently we can get it from the government for two days a week if we need it. > [@](#): > > Also, don’t have a baby. Ever. I think things will work out ok. Perhaps there will be major problems but I think in a few years I won’t regret having a baby/kid/teen. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278/180 "2013-03-09T10:48:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > …And with a kid, you can’t just have “low expectations.” That’s a recipe for disaster… What if you EXPECT them to get good grades and they have severe learning problems? I would hope and encourage them to have good grades though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-father/652278.md?page=10)