# Becoming a licensed distiller **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 16, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681 "2006-10-16T20:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TwoTrouts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@TwoTrouts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoTrouts)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/1 "2006-10-16T20:36:42Z")
I love a good whiskey, both bourbon and scotch. I think it would be enjoyable to distill some for fun and profit, but it is illegal. How would I go about becoming a legal licensed distiller? A quick google search gave me nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/2 "2006-10-16T20:43:59Z")
You might start with the [BATF](http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/). Not much right up front, but they’re the guys you’ll have to deal with eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/3 "2006-10-16T21:03:32Z")
Sorry, it’s Treasury not ATF :smack: [www.ttb.gov](http://www.ttb.gov) [http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f510024.pdf](http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f510024.pdf) - one of the applications [http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/subpages/27cfrpart019.htm](http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/subpages/27cfrpart019.htm) Federal Regulations [http://www.distilling.com/PDF/AD0101.pdf](http://www.distilling.com/PDF/AD0101.pdf) article from [distilling.com](http://distilling.com) ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/4 "2006-10-16T21:20:10Z")
What if **Two Trouts** set himself up as a non-profit research foundation to study small batch distilling, and _gave_ product to _evaluators_, who could then _contribute_ to further his research? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TwoTrouts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@TwoTrouts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoTrouts)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/5 "2006-10-16T21:57:17Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] What if **Two Trouts** set himself up as a non-profit research foundation to study small batch distilling, and _gave_ product to _evaluators_, who could then _contribute_ to further his research? 😉 [/QUOTE] Ooooh, **Cats**!, that’s a great idea!! Unfortunately, you (or other _evaluators_) would have to wait four years for the product! ---
**Author:** ![TwoTrouts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@TwoTrouts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoTrouts)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/6 "2006-10-16T21:59:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] Sorry, it’s Treasury not ATF :smack: [www.ttb.gov](http://www.ttb.gov) [http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f510024.pdf](http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f510024.pdf) - one of the applications [http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/subpages/27cfrpart019.htm](http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/subpages/27cfrpart019.htm) Federal Regulations [http://www.distilling.com/PDF/AD0101.pdf](http://www.distilling.com/PDF/AD0101.pdf) article from [distilling.com](http://distilling.com) [/QUOTE] Thank you! Some excellent info there! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/7 "2006-10-16T23:53:10Z")
Just a side note,there is a process of freeze distilling which may or may not be regulated. It is to take a fermented product and partly freeze it (to make it slushy). Remove the frozen parts and the remaining liquid is a higher proof drink. Now your not going to make a 100 or even 80 proof spirt but it may be a way to try some experimenting w/o violating the laws - that is unless that is illegal too, which I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/8 "2006-10-17T02:28:04Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Just a side note,there is a process of freeze distilling \ that is unless that is illegal too, which I don’t know. [/QUOTE] It is - Them revenueers don’t distinguish. The process of concentrating the alcohol, however it’s done, is bad. Crap. \ I am not a laywer, revenooer, BATF agent, woman, congressperson, skydiver, doctor, marsupial, nor professional booze-making-guy. Anything I say can and will be used against me. Fnord I’ve just done some looking into this in the past and will not admit to having violated the law at any point. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/9 "2006-10-17T02:52:15Z")
[QUOTE=TwoTrouts] Ooooh, **Cats**!, that’s a great idea!! Unfortunately, you (or other _evaluators_) would have to wait four years for the product! [/QUOTE] Allrightey! I’ll put you down in my advance planner for 2010, Sir. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/10 "2006-10-17T15:08:21Z")
🆒 [QUOTE=TwoTrouts] Ooooh, **Cats**!, that’s a great idea!! Unfortunately, you (or other _evaluators_) would have to wait four years for the product! [/QUOTE] We wait 4 years for the GOOD stuff… other “younger” products must be sampled as well, along the way… just to “understand the process” of course… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/11 "2006-10-17T15:22:29Z")
**TwoTrouts** , if you do this, please keep us informed of the process! Someone detailing the steps to become a licensed distiller (even if only the “experimental license”) would fascinate me. Wow, I’m kind of a loser - “Golly gee, I’d sure be keen to hear your stories of government bureaucracy, mister!” ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/12 "2006-10-17T15:31:33Z")
Many years ago, not knowing that it’s actually illegal to do in the US I was searching on line to see what the price of a good still would be. Of course that’s when I realized that the site I was looking at was in NZ, where it’s totally legal to do. Lucky New Zelanders. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/13 "2006-10-17T15:52:46Z")
A functioning still is really quite easy to make with lab equipment available at any supply store. We make them all the time in our Science core lab. (Think MASH). The other reason they make you apply for a license and all that is so they can also check on the safety of your equipment. It is quite easy to produce poisonous compounds if you aren’t careful. Small-scale distilling really isn’t cost-effective unless you have a ready source of cheap grains for your mash bill. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/14 "2006-10-17T16:20:49Z")
One of the Foxfire books shows you how to make a still. I’m not giving anything away here. The damn thing’s in the Library of Congress and all. Anyway, it’s possible to make wine and beer like it’s going out of style, but not spirits. It’s an anachronism, really. I think the damn revenuers are just holding a grudge. They’d better stay away from Copperhead Road… ---
**Author:** ![TwoTrouts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@TwoTrouts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoTrouts)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/15 "2006-10-17T16:40:56Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] A functioning still is really quite easy to make with lab equipment available at any supply store. We make them all the time in our Science core lab. (Think MASH). The other reason they make you apply for a license and all that is so they can also check on the safety of your equipment. It is quite easy to produce poisonous compounds if you aren’t careful. Small-scale distilling really isn’t cost-effective unless you have a ready source of cheap grains for your mash bill. [/QUOTE] Yup, a still is actually quite easy to make; something I remember from my Organic Chem labs. That’s what got me interested in the whole concept. But before I go tinkering with this hobby, I want to get all the paperwork in order for when the Government comes a-knocking on my door! (And you know they will!) ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/16 "2006-10-17T16:46:40Z")
Sadly from the looks of the application form you’ll have to incorporate first and then have the IRS supply you with an Employer Identification Number, as it explicitly states that a SSN is not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/17 "2006-10-17T16:57:33Z")
How about [making wine?](http://www.joyofwine.net/) You can whip up a few dozen gallons for not much moolah; fruit starters (pulp/juice) are available or you can grow or stomp your own. The equipment isn’t elaborate, it doesn’t take up much space, and it makes your basement smell like wine yeast, a good thing. And it should be drinkable in a year or so if you don’t use up the samples first. While you’re waiting, you can create a personal label on your computer. IANAL, and the laws may have changed, but at one time I believe you could make up to 100 gals/yr with no hassle with the feds, but only if you were married! Bachelors are unstable, y’know. ---
**Author:** ![TwoTrouts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@TwoTrouts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoTrouts)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/18 "2006-10-17T17:09:12Z")
Reading through the ATF regulations, I got a kick out of this… > [@](#): > > Any ATF officer is authorized to take samples of spirits, denatured > spirits, articles, wines, or any other materials which may be added to > such products for analysis, testing, or other determinations to > ascertain whether there is compliance with the provisions of law and > regulations. _Analysis and testing_, yeah right! Free hooch for the agent and his buddies! ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/19 "2006-10-17T17:20:19Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] Sadly from the looks of the application form you’ll have to incorporate first and then have the IRS supply you with an Employer Identification Number, as it explicitly states that a SSN is not acceptable. [/QUOTE] I don’t know about other states but that’s not much of a threshold. In California you fill out a form, write up articles of incorporation, write a check for about $100 and drop it all off at the local California Secretary of State office. Bam, a week later you have a corporation. You go to the IRS website, fill out an online form, pay like $30 and bam you instantly get an EIN. Of course you’re going to have to file taxes for that year and there’s a minimum, but it’s not too terrible. I don’t know what the particular situation in Pellucidar is but I would imagine the empire has something similar 😉 Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, you are not my client, taking legal advice from me is not prudent but does not constitute proof of diminished mental status in a court of law. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-licensed-distiller/376681/20 "2006-10-17T18:29:41Z")
I recently saw a TV show that mentioned a restaurant that wanted to get into the distilling business. These folks were looking at all of the successful restaurants associated with wineries and microbreweries, and thought they could do the same with rum and other spirits. In brief, it took them a ton of legal research and effort to convince the local authorities that it was legal for them to do it in the particular method they set out to do. The screwball twist is that they had to produce and bottle the liquor, then take it to the local state-run liquor shop. The liquor shop then sold the booze back to the restaurant.