# Becoming a Musician or: How I Learned to Hate Computers (rant) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 10, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581 "2023-02-10T16:08:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/21 "2023-02-11T00:18:17Z")
That’s for military generals. Precious natural fluids for multi-class scientist/musicians. 🙂 We don’t have any bodily fluids because we sold them to pay the rent. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/22 "2023-02-11T00:46:44Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > Not that I want to be _that guy_ but it sounds like you are on Windows. Both OSX and various versions of \*Nix are much easier to deak with. Not to digress, but we interrupt this thread for a brief rant from our sponsor. I’ve had two experiences setting up experimental systems with Linux. The first, a long time ago, was a nightmare that I don’t think I ever did get working. The second was inspired by \*nix fanbois telling me that “oh, it’s not like that any more” with reference to the first nightmare. They were so persistent about how incredibly wonderful _ **modern** _ Linux was that I tried it again with one of the most popular distros at the time. Long story short – yes, it’s still like that. Comically obscure incomprehensible command lines that are absolutely necessary, incompatible shit, broken shit, unsupported devices, etc. I did eventually create a working Linux system and even (eventually) got it to work with an obscure wireless adapter, but it took Herculean efforts and the result hardly seemed worth it. Whereas Windows … just works. At least, as well as any shitty Microsoft product works, which is generally in the category of “good enough to get the job done”. Ever wonder how Microsoft manages to charge money for Windows whereas Linux is (at least nominally) free? Ever hear the old adage that “you get what you pay for”? We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant. P.S.- the above is all true, but not meant to be totally serious. I know lots and lots of folks are very happy with Linux. The reality is that it’s not for everyone, and I do get tired of \*nix fanbois claiming that it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread – for ALL users, ALL configurations of ALL systems. It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/23 "2023-02-11T00:53:38Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > They were so persistent about how incredibly wonderful _ **modern** _ Linux was that I tried it again with one of the most popular distros at the time. Long story short – yes, it’s still like that. Comically obscure incomprehensible command lines that are absolutely necessary, incompatible shit, broken shit, unsupported devices, etc. I did eventually create a working Linux system and even (eventually) got it to work with an obscure wireless adapter, but it took Herculean efforts and the result hardly seemed worth it. Linux is free, so you would think that every business that cares about the bottom line would be using it. Yet it’s extremely rare. The reason is because the cost of implementing it (paying someone to do it) and supporting it outweighs the cost of buying a Windows OS. I’ve set up Linux systems before successfully. I ran an Apache web server out of my house for fun for a while (I believe I was running RedHat). It was fun. I wouldn’t recommend that just anyone do it though. And it was performing a pretty simple function. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/24 "2023-02-11T01:04:35Z")
I’ve given up on this for the day (well actually a few hours back). I finished writing the first draft of a synth heavy song as a portfolio piece, and I’m writing a flute solo piece right now. 🙂 So much more relaxing writing music than stupid forking computer code. I’m almost done with computer programming forever. It feel so good. Ok, not completely. I’m not leaving research entirely, but it will be a MUCH smaller part of my life than it is right now. And I will be writing music at the computer so there’s that. But I’m so tired of computer programming. If you count writing code as a kid, then I’ve been programming computers for about 30ish years! That’s absurd! Even just looking at from a professional point of view it would probably be 20ish years since as I didn’t do much programming when I was in the army. That’s too long to be doing one thing even if it is in different context. Although admittedly I do _like_ building killer robo… uhhh… doing research to benefit humans. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/25 "2023-02-11T01:38:46Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It isn’t This is correct. On average, installing and setting up a very easy distro like Ubuntu… is still a massive pain in the arse. You still need to find drivers for your NVidia graphics card, or whetever. But once done, it can be a happier experience. Depends on use case (My primary use case is large scale websites/microservices hosted on GCP and/or AWS, rather than desktop, but I have run quite a few physical machines on some version of \*nix, and currently use a Mac) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/26 "2023-02-11T01:43:49Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > But once done, it can be a happier experience. Depends on use case I loved my Linux machine back in the day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bleach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bleach/32/3106_2.png) [@bleach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bleach)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/27 "2023-02-11T02:29:50Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I’ve given up on this for the day (well actually a few hours back). I finished writing the first draft of a synth heavy song as a portfolio piece, and I’m writing a flute solo piece right now. 🙂 This is great news and thank you for sharing this with us. Hopefully the creative satisfaction counters the frustration of fighting with Java drivers. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/28 "2023-02-11T03:47:28Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > This is correct. On average, installing and setting up a very easy distro like Ubuntu… is still a massive pain in the arse. You still need to find drivers for your NVidia graphics card, or whetever. > > But once done, it can be a happier experience. Depends on use case Fair comment. I’ve personally never got to the “happier experience” point, but my flirtation with Linux was really more of an experiment than anything else – I’ve been fine with Windows ever since XP merged the features of the consumer line with the rock-solid kernel of Windows NT. As one example of the many, many headaches I had with Linux, at the time I had a really nice wireless adapter – it wasn’t a USB dongle, but a standalone device with its own antennas and a USB connection. It came with a driver for Windows, but, typically, nothing for Linux. I was eventually able to get it to work, but it wasn’t a matter of searching for a Linux driver for this specific device. It required digging into the guts of the device to figure out what chipset it used, then finding a Linux driver for that chipset that might hopefully be more-or-less compatible with the device, even if it didn’t support its full feature set. Such, in my, experience, is the world of Linux. > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I’ve given up on this for the day (well actually a few hours back). I finished writing the first draft of a synth heavy song as a portfolio piece, and I’m writing a flute solo piece right now. 🙂 My apologies for hijacking your thread. I’m done now. Just wanted to say that you’re admirably bridging a vast gap between computer technology and art. I can more or less handle computer technology (though I have zero real-world experience with \*Nix – but just ask me about VAX/VMS or RSX-11M!) but composing music is as alien to me as it would be to a cat. Your mastery of both worlds makes you a true Renaissance polymath! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/29 "2023-02-11T04:26:30Z")
Ewww, Java? No, you’re not dragging me down in that mess, I’ve got enough problems with the three Ps (perl, python and PHP). I’m going to go mess with my modular synth instead. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/30 "2023-02-11T05:01:11Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > is just a rant in particular about the absurdity of it saying “I cannot find a driver”, “Oh, I can find two drivers”, and then “I cannot find a driver”. First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is… ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/31 "2023-02-11T10:42:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > My apologies for hijacking your thread. Its purpose was fulfilled by letting me scream into the void, so no worries. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/32 "2023-02-11T10:42:57Z")
So you’re saying my mind will be free once I realize the truth (what truth is that?) there is no driver. Whoa. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/33 "2023-02-11T10:46:11Z")
I am often constrained by language choice by what the other people on the project (usually undergraduates) know. I personally prefer C++ for anything that I’m building solely for myself. Modular synth, good choice. 🙂 Do you use VCV Rack (i.e., software) or an actual physical modular synth? I’ve been building some stuff in VCV Rack. It is pretty cool, although I’m certainly no expert by any means. Recently, looked at Supercollider, which is also pretty cool. A programming-lite programming language specifically for making synth music. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/34 "2023-02-11T12:37:26Z")
My friends who produce music are somewhat in a niche group in the Electronic Dance Music (EDM) field, and as far as I know they prefer [Ableton](https://www.djmixclub.co.za/product-category/music-production-software/ableton/) as the appropriate software. There seem to be multiple competitors. It could just be their familiarity with Ableton, I’m no musician. I can sing, though… baritone. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/35 "2023-02-11T12:43:49Z")
Since I am not in a band (yet), I use Ableton for making my music, which to date has been mainly classical compositions. I have some lyrical and cinematic pieces in the works. The lyrical stuff I’m hesitant to release until I’m very confident of the mix. I know nobody (except me) is listening to the classical stuff, but I want to make sure my lyrical songs make a good first impression. I finished my flute piece last night. I’m working on a cinematic/orchestral piece today. And probably take another stab and the the fraking java problem. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/36 "2023-02-11T13:25:17Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I am often constrained by language choice by what the other people on the project (usually undergraduates) know. I personally prefer C++ for anything that I’m building solely for myself. > > Modular synth, good choice. 🙂 Do you use VCV Rack (i.e., software) or an actual physical modular synth? I’ve been building some stuff in VCV Rack. It is pretty cool, although I’m certainly no expert by any means. Recently, looked at Supercollider, which is also pretty cool. A programming-lite programming language specifically for making synth music. Supercollider is an excellent choice for any kind of (digital) music, from slapping some dynamic effects (e.g. a custom multi-band compressor or phase vocoder) onto an input stream to “live coding” and modular synths to generating music algorithmically via machine learning or whatever. If there is _not_ a library included or on github that already does what you want (the use of supercollider in professional and educational settings has really taken off since he open-sourced it), you can of course interface with your own module written in C++ ETA: Ableton, Bitwig, Logic etc etc are more like “audio workstations” for production and performance. Supercollider is not like that, it’s basically an audio programming language Linux, well, that refers to the kernel. Seems to work well enough that people use it for spaceships but there is nothing preventing them from compiling distros that work worse than Windows, either ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/37 "2023-02-11T16:50:18Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I am often constrained by language choice by what the other people on the project (usually undergraduates) know. I personally prefer C++ for anything that I’m building solely for myself. Yeah, I am constrained these days by my employer doing most everything in Python - I wouldn’t know it at all if it wasn’t for them. Stuff I write for myself is usually just something to make diagnosing a problem easier, so it’s usually just Bash and Perl. > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Modular synth, good choice. 🙂 Do you use VCV Rack (i.e., software) or an actual physical modular synth? I’ve been building some stuff in VCV Rack. It is pretty cool, although I’m certainly no expert by any means. Recently, looked at Supercollider, which is also pretty cool. A programming-lite programming language specifically for making synth music. I’m a pysical synth guy, mostly. I’ve gone from being a guy with an embarrassing number of guitars to a guy who is starting to also have an embarrassing number of synths. The current collection is: Roland SH201 - my first. Really not a bad synth for your first synth, but not a wonderful one (checks Reverb prices). Nope! $400+ is wayyyy too much for that thing these days. Who runs up the prices of these? Moog Werkstat 01 - Awesome little single audio oscillator/single LFO modular. Moog Matriarch - A fabulous, giant, complex, flexible semi-modular that has an idiot like me to operate it. Behringer VC340 - Nice copy of a Roland VP 330 A Nifty Case modular rack with the following modules at the moment: Cre8audio Cells and Chipz, a Dnipro Dot euclidean sequencer, and a Quad Drum Voice from [vpme.de](http://vpme.de). - That’s the one I was messing with yesterday. I do some stuff with software synths, though. My go-to drum machine before I got the Quad Drum was Hydrogen. Sometimes the software is the easiest route to the end product, and I’d still use Hydrogen if I wanted something that sounded closer to a physical drum set. Since I’m doing everything on Linux, Ardour is the DAW I use. I hadn’t run into supercollider, neat idea! I’m running a distro directed at AV production that comes with several other soft synths installed, they apparently didn’t see fit to include that one by default, even though it’s in the repo. I’m certainly going to download it and start fooling with it this weekend. Here’s a vid I did a few months back, you can see the Matriarch in the background of some of it. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/VftighogQN8/maxresdefault.jpg "XL 01296479 and HMSS SAM") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VftighogQN8) Hijack: Anyone know of a good, inexpensiveish software _video_ synthesizer out there? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/38 "2023-02-11T16:57:11Z")
That’s fantastic! I enjoyed watching the video too. The only video synthesizer I know of is Lumen. [https://lumen-app.com/](https://lumen-app.com/) It isn’t something I’ve looked into very much. You might want to ask in #cafe-society because some people don’t come into #the-bbq-pit. I’d love to see what you could do with a video synth! ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/39 "2023-02-11T17:01:23Z")
I’d love to pick this ([Bundles: KOMPLETE 14 COLLECTORS EDITION](https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/bundles/komplete-14-collectors-edition/)) up but damn CAD$2339. That’s a LOT of streams to pay for it. 🤣 I’m going to make a thread in #Cafe Society to talk music/video production. > [@Music Creators Assemble!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-creators-assemble/979626): > > In another thread, a few of us started talking music creation. So let’s chat! I know there must be even more of you out there. I am primarily a singer, although I also play flute and a dash of piano. I sing folk, folk rock, and prog rock mainly. In terms of music, lately I’ve been focused on classical composition (fugues, minuets, waltzes and symphonies) to attain some skill at songwriting and mixing, as I’m pretty new to those aspects. I am currently doing an accelerated music degree to learn … ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581/40 "2023-02-11T17:21:49Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Who runs up the prices of these? (Comes to the realization that supply is part of this, and I’m not planning to sell mine) We have met the enemy, and he is us! > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > That’s fantastic! I enjoyed watching the video too. 😊 Thank you, it’s always wonderful to have someone enjoy your work. > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > The only video synthesizer I know of is Lumen. [https://lumen-app.com/](https://lumen-app.com/) It isn’t something I’ve looked into very much. You might want to ask in #Cafe Society because some people don’t come into #The BBQ Pit. > > I’d love to see what you could do with a video synth! I’m mostly interested in using it for visuals at shows for one of my bands, but I’d probably end up using it in just about everything. I have a Mac sitting next to me that I never use - sadly, it can’t quite run OS 10.14, 10.13 is its limit. Maybe I can snag my wife’s laptop for this purpose. > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I’d love to pick this ([Bundles: KOMPLETE 14 COLLECTORS EDITION](https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/bundles/komplete-14-collectors-edition/)) up but damn CAD$2339. That’s a LOT of streams to pay for it. 🤣 BUT YOU ARE SAVING $19,963.80!!! _How can you deny yourself so much saving?_ 😃 That really, really makes me feel better about my Matriarch purchase, thank you. > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I’m going to make a thread in #Cafe Society to talk music/video production. Okeydoke, I’ll be there! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-a-musician-or-how-i-learned-to-hate-computers-rant/979581.md?page=3)