# "Becoming Alpha"? Check your humanity at the door. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2010, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941 "2010-07-08T07:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/41 "2010-07-08T19:13:49Z")
There’s a cure for what ails this guy: an ass-kicking. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/42 "2010-07-08T19:25:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Oh, please, not _this_ again. > > Excluded middle, to the _n_th power. > > There’s a continent’s worth of middle ground between overbearing jerks and milquetoasty doormats, between guys who approach women as if they’re doing a favor to speak to her, and guys who can’t work up the guts to make the first move to begin with. > > And most of the single guys in that middle ground are doing pretty well, I bet. If you’re a guy who has some idea of where he wants to go in life, is trying to get there, and is actually interested in the women he meets as people and not just as sex toys, chances are you’ll do well enough with women. :smack: OK, OK, OK. Just answer this one question: On your spectrum, how well are the other categories doing? That is, how often, relative to the rest of the spectrum, do the doormats and jerks get laid? Forget about whether the middle guys are doing OK. Forget about how they’d do in relationships. Forget about whether it’s OK to treat women like you’re doing them a favor by talking to them. Just tell me how each part of the spectrum is doing relative to the rest. All I’m saying is that the jerks are getting laid more. Anyone want to refute that? Anyone disagree with that? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/43 "2010-07-08T19:32:54Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Somebody please convince me [this blog](http://alpharivelino.wordpress.com/) is some sort of childish satire. > > It’s a twist on “game” (aka pickup theory) that is so smugly misogynistic - hell, _misanthropic_ - that it’s like [Dr. Dick Masterson](http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/) without the laugh lines. The ethos is roughly as follows: alpha males are dominance robots, women are masochist fuckmeat, and sub-alpha males are human waste. And the comments are universally positive. > > Not only do these sociopaths have no business coming within ten yards of a woman, I don’t even want them breathing up my air. I want to see what this “masterful alpha” male looks like. My own instincts tell me this wonder boy is no where near alpha material. Anyone can be the ulitmate bad ass on the web, where anonymity is a given and no one can really call a person on their bullshit. As for the “the rest are abused males” thing, I can only imagine how many wannabe alphas had their clocks cleaned by what they thought would be an easy mark. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/44 "2010-07-08T19:43:45Z")
**Chessic Sense** : let’s suppose, for sake of argument, that the jerks are getting laid twice as much as all those guys in the middle who are doing well enough, thank you. So what’s the takeaway? If you’re one of those many guys in the middle, and you’re getting enough action, is the takeaway that you should be a jerk in order to get still more action? I don’t see it: if you’re already getting enough, you’re probably not willing to sell your soul to get still more. And if you’re one of the milquetoasty doormats, is the takeaway that you should be a jerk in order to go directly to the top of the heap? Maybe, if you think you can pull it off. But let’s face it, milquetoasty doormats didn’t get there by being adept at assholery. This is a game you’re not good at, and you don’t turn into an adept quickly enough to realize the benefits before you scare away the friends you’ve got. You’ve got much better odds of just figuring out who you are and trying to be that person, and letting the stuff on the sex-and-romance side of the ledger fall into place as you become someone who knows where his towel is. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/45 "2010-07-08T19:54:08Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So what’s the takeaway? The takeaway is that you shouldn’t be surprised that: > [@even\_sven](#): > > their despicable actions do indeed translate into nearly infinite sex. The bad guys win. > … > These guys are out there. They succeed at what they do. They make me sick to my stomach and erode my faith in humanity. The takeaway is that you shouldn’t let it erode your faith in humanity. It’s just the way the world works. I personally place very little value judgment in such a concept unless it directly affects me. However you want to place judgment is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/46 "2010-07-08T20:53:26Z")
My head feels funny. It’s like, echoes from my past… ‘Nice Guy’ versus nice guy…bitterness… the bitterness and hatred flow like the crimson tide… Stop it…aaggh! STOP IT! _holds head and writhes in agony on the floor_ ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/47 "2010-07-08T21:04:59Z")
He has a whole post on skincare! I think this might be the guy from _American Psycho_. > [@](#): > > Aside from the cooking for myself, and the importance of not eating processed foods, it is important to eat lots of fruit, and to use a night eye cream at least every night, if not several times a day. > > A great way to eat a lot of fruit is through smoothies in the blender. > > And eye cream really does work. This stuff matters, for everybody. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, my European girlfriend (exgf) takes amazing care of her skin, looks about 5-7 years younger than her age, maybe 10, and has taught me a few things as well. His girlfriend is 10 years old? And looks 5 to 7 years younger? That must make it tough to take her to bars. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/48 "2010-07-08T21:27:41Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > I think this might be the guy from _American Psycho_. Perfect! Especially the way his commenters, to a person, _suspect absolutely nothing._ ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/49 "2010-07-08T21:32:53Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > His girlfriend is 10 years old? And looks 5 to 7 years younger? That must make it tough to take her to bars. To be fair, it could also mean that she is 15 or 17, and looks like she’s 10 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/50 "2010-07-09T00:40:36Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Somebody please convince me [this blog](http://alpharivelino.wordpress.com/) is some sort of childish satire. > > It’s a twist on “game” (aka pickup theory) that is so smugly misogynistic - hell, _misanthropic_ - that it’s like [Dr. Dick Masterson](http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/) without the laugh lines. The ethos is roughly as follows: alpha males are dominance robots, women are masochist fuckmeat, and sub-alpha males are human waste. And the comments are universally positive. > > Not only do these sociopaths have no business coming within ten yards of a woman, I don’t even want them breathing up my air. New Love Mantra May 13, 2010 by Rivelino to be honest to level with people to be genuine to not put up a front to be respectful of women to show vulnerability to be down to earth to be considerate to be helpful to be giving to be thoughtful to be caring to be kind to be fair to not seek to exploit to not show off or brag to not pretend to be more than you are not to not manipulate or take advantage of to not be boastful to be honest to be fair to be a good person The rest of this piss-poor poetry is on the page, if you care to read it. But this is all that it took to convince me that this page is utter trollery. Alpha-male theory, eh? Alphas, if such a classification makes sense, don’t write poetry. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/51 "2010-07-09T01:32:03Z")
What brand of eye cream does he use? I learned all of my beauty tips from American Psycho. For the technically inclined nice guys out there, consider the [beer-quiche game](http://cermsem.univ-paris1.fr/davila/teaching/gradmicro2/PS2.pdf). Replace “duel” with “fuck” and swap the payoffs accordingly. If nice guys all pretended to be jerks, then jerkitude would convey that much less information to prospective jerk-preferring women. A nice guy would have to pay the costs of being a jerk and potentially lower his chances of actually getting laid. Game theory sez, be who you are. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/52 "2010-07-09T02:10:35Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Women (seem to) want confidence. I thought men also like confident women, or so I have been told. I am sure somebody constantly seeking approval and needing crutches to do anything would get tiresome really fast, however hot. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/53 "2010-07-09T02:25:56Z")
I also can’t help but wonder if the blog is self-consciously referring to the much higher quality [Seeking Alpha](http://seekingalpha.com/). Very different subject matter. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/54 "2010-07-09T02:33:20Z")
It’s basically my understanding that women appear genetically prone to be attracted to high status men, just as men typically want to be high status. What appears much less hard wired is the definition of “high status\*”. So I regard abusive jerks and the women who go out with abusive jerks because they find them attractive\*\* to be gender swapped mirror images, in essence. The men who think being a thug or jerk is the apex of manhood, and the women who agree. So if it’s those particular women you want, then yes probably the only way to get them is to be (or fake being) the thug they lust after. Or, you can just find women who have better taste in men. The sort of women whose definition of “high status, desirable male” is something like “smart”, “devoted to me”, “polite”, or whatever qualities you have instead of being a thug. Personally, I don’t want some woman who’s looking for a man who pushes her around; I find women like that creepy. - An interesting example of this; I understand that according to the psychologists one effective means of making women attracted to you, is to impress men. Even if the typical woman thinks that a man is being a fool by being a daredevil, skydiving or whatever, if she sees men acting all impressed by what he’s doing, that will tend to make him attractive to her. Because after all, there’s not really any better indicator of being a high status male, than having actual high status among males. \*\* as opposed to women who get sucked in by an abuser who pretends to be something else until he has his emotional hooks in her. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/55 "2010-07-09T03:56:14Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I thought men also like confident women, or so I have been told. I am sure somebody constantly seeking approval and needing crutches to do anything would get tiresome really fast, however hot. I hear men say this all the time and my theory is that it’s an act so that they don’t look like giant douche bags. I don’t want a girl who’s depressed or anything, but I prefer girls with average levels of self-esteem over girls who are confident. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/56 "2010-07-09T05:13:59Z")
I likes me women like I likes me coffee, weak and smothered with cream. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/57 "2010-07-09T06:52:06Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > I likes me women like I likes me coffee, weak and smothered with cream. That’s funny- I like mine like I like my coffee, too: Black and microwaved. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/58 "2010-07-09T08:08:03Z")
I like my women like I like my hot chocolate! Hot! (Did I do that right guys?) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/59 "2010-07-09T08:09:23Z")
I like my women like I like my coffee : COVERED IN BEES ! ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941/60 "2010-07-09T08:15:26Z")
…bitter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/becoming-alpha-check-your-humanity-at-the-door/545941.md?page=4)