# Bed-talk and (brutal) honesty **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 2, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766 "2015-08-02T00:27:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/81 "2015-08-02T20:00:49Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > After 50 years of marriage I would not even think about being brutally honest with a woman, whats the point? I don’t know what’s the point, but I have the same flaw. I tend to be brutally honest. If asked “do I look fat in these pants?”, I will tend to answer “yes”. I’m better at it nowadays, and sugarcoat more, but still it requires some effort on my part. I couldn’t tell you why. Being diplomatic feels complicated and constrained, contrary to my ideals also. I feel a bit trapped if I have to sugarcoat or tell white lies. I also tend to be of the persuasion : “If you don’t want to know, don’t ask”. What probably saved me often is that I’m quite of an introvert, so I’m not likely to go on unsolicited critical ramblings after sex, contrarily to the OP. It definitely doesn’t help with the ladies. My worst offense was probably the day when I told someone “I wouldn’t want you to be the mother of my children”. Half an hour later, I was packing my things, not surprisingly. Well…she had asked! A woman I’m involved with appreciate this bluntness, and often mentions it as a positive asset (basically because it reassures her that when I say “no”, I actually think she doesn’t look fat in these pants…of course usually it’s for more important matters). She trusts me more and I feel freer as a result. Good deal for both. But she’s the exception, not the norm. I think of an ex and very long time friend who still doesn’t handle it well. She tends to remember only the critical statements and to be hurt. By the way, I don’t mind people being brutally honest with me. I prefer it, in fact. I’m not easily offended by negative comments (If I find them undeserved I don’t care, if I find them deserved, I’m already aware of them, if it something new I’m unaware of, it’s food for thought) so I probably except people to take blunt honesty better than they typically do. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/82 "2015-08-02T20:15:34Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I would _want_ to be corrected if I was deluding myself under a false impression. Maybe my penis is small, and I get a little butthurt about her telling me so. I trust my partner to be honest if I am wrong. I would rather know the factual reality then to operate under a foolish misconception. > > […] > > To know one’s self is to accept the hand you are dealt. I consider it a sign of respect and trust to be told how it really is. But, for things that are potentially hurtful, this is considered “un-loving” behavior. The implication, then, is that loving someone is to reinforce their conceptions of themselves, whether based in truth or not. I can’t help but agree with the OP, here. How can I trust my partner if she’s always trying to spare my feelings? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/83 "2015-08-02T20:19:19Z")
I think there is a fine line, if you say nothing but good stuff it tends to just roll of their backs after a while. If you occasionaly lightly critisize a dish they cooked but then highly praise another dish they tend to appreciate the praise more. When asked a very direct question about something physical I tend to brush it off saying I don’t pay much attention to that but you still make my dick hard. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/84 "2015-08-02T20:25:17Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t know what’s the point, but I have the same flaw. I tend to be brutally honest. If asked “do I look fat in these pants?”, I will tend to answer “yes”. I’m better at it nowadays, and sugarcoat more, but still it requires some effort on my part. I couldn’t tell you why. Being diplomatic feels complicated and constrained, contrary to my ideals also. I feel a bit trapped if I have to sugarcoat or tell white lies. I also tend to be of the persuasion : “If you don’t want to know, don’t ask”. What probably saved me often is that I’m quite of an introvert, so I’m not likely to go on unsolicited critical ramblings after sex, contrarily to the OP. > > It definitely doesn’t help with the ladies. My worst offense was probably the day when I told someone “I wouldn’t want you to be the mother of my children”. Half an hour later, I was packing my things, not surprisingly. Well…she had asked! A woman I’m involved with appreciate this bluntness, and often mentions it as a positive asset (basically because it reassures her that when I say “no”, I actually think she doesn’t look fat in these pants…of course usually it’s for more important matters). She trusts me more and I feel freer as a result. Good deal for both. But she’s the exception, not the norm. I think of an ex and very long time friend who still doesn’t handle it well. She tends to remember only the critical statements and to be hurt. > > By the way, I don’t mind people being brutally honest with me. I prefer it, in fact. I’m not easily offended by negative comments (If I find them undeserved I don’t care, if I find them deserved, I’m already aware of them, if it something new I’m unaware of, it’s food for thought) so I probably except people to take blunt honesty better than they typically do. I am with you across the board! Nothing makes me more uncomfortable than people who are unfailingly diplomatic and polite, for the very simple reason that I am in the dark! If you are steadfastly committed to tact over truth, no matter what, then I feel completely adrift. It is far worse to me to operate from the belief that someone is being honest with you when they are not, that is the absolute worst to me. I feel like a fool. I don’t think that people have to be unkind or cruel, or barf up every thought that crosses their minds, that’s (usually) not necessary in order to be fundamentally honest, and fundamental honesty is an absolute requirement for me in all my relationships, both romantic and platonic. In fact, genuineness is the number one thing I look for in anyone I am looking at for friendship or love. If you don’t have that, I have no desire to have you in my life. Way too complicated, too fraught, too hard. Taking the hit of painful truth is miles better than constantly wondering what the truth actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/85 "2015-08-02T20:26:32Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > When asked a very direct question about something physical I tend to brush it off saying I don’t pay much attention to that but you still make my dick hard. A most excellent response! Bravo! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/86 "2015-08-02T20:30:34Z")
By the way, just as an aside: a woman _ **can** _ do more about a spacious vagina than a man can about a small dick: [kegels!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise) Both sexes can benefit from doing pelvic floor exercises, but women can actually tighten their vaginas. And if a woman thinks she already has a tight vagina but in fact she does not, then learning this could benefit her. (I agree it is a subjective assessment, but still not without value.) In fact, kegels add to the sexual performance of all women, no matter what their starting point. And men, for that matter. The more control you have over your bits, the better for everyone! ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/87 "2015-08-02T20:32:53Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > But if our SO leaves a glop of toothpaste spit in the sink, they are dead meat. And in fact it’s often true. People aren’t in general as invested in sparing the feelings of their SO as some people are saying. Especially when they’re upset, at which point many forget about sparing feelings, and even don’t hesitate to be unjustly critical (for some people, seemingly, being upset excuses anything you say. A common trait which I dislike too, by the way. If you really think it, say it, but if you don’t really think it, then being upset doesn’t make more acceptable to blurt out random accusations). So, yes, a lot of people won’t tell you “you aren’t that good a lover”, but will be much less reluctant to tell you “you’re a slob, there’s toothpaste all over the sink”. So it’s not that people always avoid hurting their partners’ feelings, it depends a lot of what is being criticized. Some criticisms are deemed acceptable, other aren’t deemed so. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/88 "2015-08-02T20:57:56Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > You are a liar. > > If you were such an honesty junkie, you’d tell them about their weaknesses with your brutal truthfulness _before_ you fucked them. You can hardly criticize her vagina before sleeping with her, can you? 😃 > [@](#): > > Your method of operation is not that of someone telling the world the tough truths about itself, it’s that of a coward who wants to be abusive, but doesn’t have the balls to do it _except_ when the other person is at their most off-guard and vulnerable. People are way too quick to assume that other people are liars. If I learned something useful in my life, it’s that people are extremely different in their attitudes and expectations. It reminds me of the recent thread about being friend with your exes, with people assuming that someone saying he’s friendly with them is a liar just edging his bets. It might be that the OP is simply more relaxed after sex, and, as he said, expects that people you had sex with would be very open and accepting. She’s not the only one being vulnerable in this instance. He is too. He too is naked by her side. And there’s definitely something to be said about being able to be an open book for your lover. You’re vulnerable, but you don’t hesitate to make yourself more vulnerable because you trust her. And you aren’t offended by the truth (or rather _her_ truth) because of the feelings you have for each other. You know she doesn’t love you any less, even if she tells you something negative. > [@](#): > > When’s the last time you went into a biker bar to correct the biker’s misguided apprehensions of themselves? "Hey, you big fat greasy slobs. You think the leather and unwashed hair makes you look tough? Very poor example. First because it could apply to anything. Even if you think that stealing is wrong and that thieves should chastised, you too would probably be reluctant to call on this those bikers. Not because it’s wrong to call them on it, but because you’d rather not be beaten up. Second because the OP says he values brutal honesty in his relationships. Unless he had sex with the bikers, he has no reason to behave in the same way with them. In fact, you could make the argument that the OP puts too much trust in his partners, and expects too much of them. That he thinks sex establishes a strong bond when this requires much more than a good (or bad) shag. I see no reason to assume the OP isn’t truthful. He might be misguided, but there’s no reason to assume that his intents are nefarious (that he wants to hurt his partners). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/89 "2015-08-02T21:14:44Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I can’t help but agree with the OP, here. How can I trust my partner if she’s always trying to spare my feelings? > [@Stoid](#): > > I am with you across the board! Nothing makes me more uncomfortable than people who are unfailingly diplomatic and polite, for the very simple reason that I am in the dark! If you are steadfastly committed to tact over truth, no matter what, then I feel completely adrift. These comments seem to be made in absence of the knowledge that human beings talk to each other at different times in different situations for different reasons with different expectations. Not every conversation is a fact-gathering exercise, and it is astonishing to me that there seem to be people unaware of this, or at least acting as if they are. And it’s not like most adults are completely unaware of their flaws. A big purpose of sexual intimacy is too sex a space of acceptance and warmth. In that context, asking for assurance that you were a good lay and at that very moment being told no you weren’t is a betrayal. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/90 "2015-08-02T21:26:13Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > “You didn’t have to say it twice” > > “I didn’t, that was the echo”. It was like throwing a hot dog down a hallway. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/91 "2015-08-02T21:29:07Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Your after sex conversation should be something like “Wow… that was great… you are amazing… wow… you are gorgeous” and based on the level of the relationship throw in several " I love you so much." > . I wouldn’t say such things after having had sex if I didn’t truly thought them. I might not be as blunt as the OP ( “that was rather average…you don’t compare very well with my ex…pff…aren’t you a bit on the fat side?”), I wouldn’t make unsolicited negative comments, but I wouldn’t make untruthful compliments, either. If directly asked, I would feel unduly pressured, would try to deflect the question or would stay silent (typically doesn’t go unoticed, though, people aren’t idiots) or I would try to tell the truth in a positive or at least not too negative way (there are things you can hardly make positive). And eventually, if my partner insists too much, I too would tell the naked truth. Again, at some point, it becomes : “If you don’t want to know, don’t ask”. And I _especially_ wouldn’t say “I love you so much”. I didn’t use the word “love” lightly in a very, very long time (like when I was around 20, and I’m 50). “I love you” isn’t a thing you say to be nice in my view. It’s a very heavy statement, a commitment. If you’re told this, you should rightfully expect that you can fully rely on the feelings of the person who said it, fully trust him/her. I’m not going to say that unless I’m very sure of my feelings, which will take way longer than some dates and a couple intercourses. The best you’re going to get from me is “I really like you”. Despite all the criticisms of “brutal honesty” in this thread, I can’t say I’m in utter admiration of people who say untruthful things just to be nice, either. It might be a disservice, and be more beneficial to yourself than to your partner". You’re avoiding the troubles for yourself and mislead her. "Why did he dump me? He told me I was amazing, the sex was great, I was gorgeous, and he loved me. I don’t understand ☹ " ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/92 "2015-08-02T21:42:23Z")
After I have sex with a guy, if he can’t say something nice honestly, I’d rather he just STFU and cuddle with me. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/93 "2015-08-02T21:49:46Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > When she commented that she had a tight vagina, she was looking for a compliment. She wanted to hear you say it was the nicest, tightest vagina you’ve ever had. That’s the problem. Why would you go fishing for undeserved compliments? What could they be worth, if you know your partner will just say whatever is more pleasant to hear? Why would you trust him if you know that he will only ever say what you want to hear? I can understand there’s a time for everything, but again, what do you get from a compliment you know is insincere, or at least strongly suspect is likely to be insincere? Why are you putting your partner in such an incomfortable position if you don’t really want to know? Who is really disrepectful, here? The more I think about it, the more I think that I too need my partner to be honest (I’m not adding “brutally” because one can be kindly honest too). If I suspected she was frequently trying to spare my feelings, I couldn’t trust her. And I would certainly never try to push her to lie to boost my ego. I too sometimes go fishing for compliments. But if I’m mistaken about my qualities and don’t get the response I expected, I take it like a big boy. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/94 "2015-08-02T21:59:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > These comments seem to be made in absence of the knowledge that human beings talk to each other at different times in different situations for different reasons with different expectations. Agreed. But things like “you have a vacuous vagina” probably should never be said. What’s the point? It would be like saying that you look silly because your eyes are spaced too far apart. The other person can never change it and what is the point of saying it if not to make the person self-conscious about it? If she tends to talk too much while you are watching movies, then you can bring that up at the right time because then she can learn that it bothers you and adjust her behavior. Likewise you can adjust your behavior that bothers her. But those things are done at the proper time, not, for example, yelling at her to shut the fuck up when you are cuddling on the couch. But this OP…wow, it’s a wrong comment for any time, but also made at the worst possible time. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/95 "2015-08-02T22:00:33Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That’s the problem. Why would you go fishing for undeserved compliments? What could they be worth, if you know your partner will just say whatever is more pleasant to hear? Why would you trust him if you know that he will only ever say what you want to hear? > > I can understand there’s a time for everything, but again, what do you get from a compliment you know is insincere, or at least strongly suspect is likely to be insincere? Why are you putting your partner in such an incomfortable position if you don’t really want to know? Who is really disrepectful, here? I think what a lot of people are saying that if wanting a compliment puts your partner in a weird position, why would you be in a relationship with them? Those postcoital moments are vulnerable. I don’t think you’re necessarily looking to build up your self-esteem with “Oh you were so awesome” commentary. It’s more reassurance. You want to feel warm and good and close to the person you opened yourself up to. I think you can have open conversations about your sex life (like if there are things you don’t want your partner to do or to do more of) but maybe hold off on that and in that postcoital glow, especially the very first time you’ve made love, try a little tenderness? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/96 "2015-08-02T22:03:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Agreed. But things like “you have a vacuous vagina” probably should never be said. I think we can all agree that vaginas aren’t the smartest body part out there. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/97 "2015-08-02T22:04:51Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That’s the problem. Why would you go fishing for undeserved compliments. The words “problem” and “undeserved” reflect a misapprehension of the circumstances. People engage in intimacy in part in order to feel accepted. That is not a “problem.” That’s an actual human need. And “undeserved” implies some kind of objective standard for being a human. You go to bed with someone in order to indulge in the experience of being appreciated. Appreciation is an exercise of opinion and taste. No one is forcing you to fuck somebody, but if you fuck somebody without actually having any appreciation for that person’s qualities, then you’re violating that person’s trust in opening himself or herself to vulnerability to you. If your partner thinks that you aren’t deserving of appreciation then why are you being intimate with that person? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/98 "2015-08-02T22:10:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And it’s not like most adults are completely unaware of their flaws. A big purpose of sexual intimacy is too sex a space of acceptance and warmth. In that context, asking for assurance that you were a good lay and at that very moment being told no you weren’t is a betrayal. I’m going to assume here that you’re in some sort of relationship rather than it being a one night stand. Presumably, if I’m sleeping with you, it’s because I find you have qualities that I enjoy. Being a good lay might not be one of your qualities, but if you’re naked in my arms, acceptance and warmth are already a given. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/99 "2015-08-02T22:11:10Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I chose the brutal honesty route, and replied, “actually, I know it’s kind of rude of me to say it, but your vagina was pretty spacious.” My understanding of female anatomy is that the vagina will expand or contract to comfortably accommodate the majority of penis sizes out there. In this case it appears to have reached just the right size for an enormous prick. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766/100 "2015-08-02T22:17:21Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I think what a lot of people are saying that if wanting a compliment puts your partner in a weird position, why would you be in a relationship with them? Hmm…presumably for a number of reasons other than the one you want to be unduly complimented about? But here I wasn’t asking why you should respond nicely to this kind of compliment fishing, but why people engage in compliment fishing to begin with. Can’t you be satisfied with the feelings your partner has, and the qualities he finds in you? Do you really need to be told you’re perfect? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bed-talk-and-brutal-honesty/726766.md?page=6)