# Beef Chicken Turkey Pork - Where's the Other Meat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489 "2005-06-02T03:07:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/21 "2005-06-02T15:57:03Z")
Lamb seems to be much more popular in the UK, Europe, and Australia than here in the U.S… I LOVE lamb chops, mutton, Greek dishes involving lamb, etc., but you just don’t see it very often at the supermarket. When you do, it’s more of an expensive upscale item like veal. I don’t buy it because it’s not really in my budget, and they rarely have it anyway, but it’s still more common than ostrich or buffalo (both great as well). I’ve never seen goat at a regular supermarket, but I wouldn’t be surprised if ethnic grocery stores carry it regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/22 "2005-06-02T16:02:30Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > They aren’t. A fruit are the ripened ovaries of a plant, but the outer shell of a green bean doesn’t ripen – it remains the same. > > Also, the common definition of fruit is used to designate a sweet ripened seed pod. While it is scientifically correct to call a tomato a fruit, it is perfectly correct to insist it is not a fruit because it’s not sweet: the scientific definition of something is not necessarily the same as the common definition, and that does not make the common definition wrong. _grr_ I’ve never heard “ripening” to be part of the definition of fruit; it certainly wasn’t in my high school biology textbooks. Substitute “squash” instead if you prefer. You still missed the point entirely - in a recent thread I demonstrated my ability to distinguish between biological and cultural or culinary definitions. In fact, that’s the point I was making here - if you looked at the quote, you can see that I was countering one question with another. **Reeder** seems to think that a strict definition of “meat”, say, the flesh of an animal, ought to supercede the cultural definition, which treats meat and fish as separate things. I countered by offering a comparable situation in the plant kingdom, with the intent of illustrating exactly the fact that relying on a reductive definition to categorize foods is silly. It helps to examine the context of a piece of text in order to understand what the intent is - very frequently in both speech and writing people express an idea that may be different - even contrary - to the straightforward meaning of the words. Being able to analyze and understand that is an integral part of normal communication skills. One clue would be that, even had you not had **Reeder** ’s parallel question to compare it to, you could see that my question had virtually nothing to do with the topic of the thread. That should have functioned as a signal that perhaps it was not a simple question asked in isolation but actually had some sort of (perhaps subtle) intent beyond the straightforward question. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/23 "2005-06-02T16:20:58Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Beef > Chicken > Turkey > Pork > > These are “common” meats. Why? Cost. I can get Ostrich if I want. It is lean, low in cholesterol, etc. However it costs more per pound than beef annd so I’ll pass. I can not tell the differnce (taste wise) between an ostrich roast and a beef roast. When ostrich speculation was rampant in my area, I had a freezer full of it. “Ranchers” would be going under and pay me in meat. The cost of beef is lower in part due to demand, which tends to be high. IANAEconomist so I will stop there. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/24 "2005-06-02T19:40:30Z")
Rabbit is not uncommon here; others have mentioned lamb. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/25 "2005-06-02T19:42:34Z")
Factoid: [barnacle geese](http://www.royalparks.org.uk/support/foundation/adoption/ducks/duck.cfm?id=27) are classed as fish. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/26 "2005-06-02T19:57:57Z")
I don’t dispute that you can get lamb, quail, or other such things in a market, the butcher shop, upscale restaurants, or an occasional “foreign food” restaurant. The question was why such things are less common or sometimes even hard to find. For example: I can’t go into Subway and get a lamb sandwich. I can’t go to Coco’s and get wabbit stew. AFAIK, the local steakhouse doesn’t serve moose or heron. I’ve never been to a BBQ that served elk or llama. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/27 "2005-06-02T20:08:06Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Factoid: [barnacle geese](http://www.royalparks.org.uk/support/foundation/adoption/ducks/duck.cfm?id=27) are classed as fish. _ **were** _. Because it was thought that they started out as [Goose Barnacles](http://www.fathom.com/feature/121900/2646_goose_sm.gif) (it has to be said, they are superficially similar. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/28 "2005-06-02T20:21:30Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > I don’t dispute that you can get lamb, quail, or other such things in a market, the butcher shop, upscale restaurants, or an occasional “foreign food” restaurant. > > The question was why such things are less common or sometimes even hard to find. Most of the answers to your questions are in Marvin Harris’s _Good to Eat_ and other works. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/29 "2005-06-02T20:38:51Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > I don’t dispute that you can get lamb, quail, or other such things in a market, the butcher shop, upscale restaurants, or an occasional “foreign food” restaurant. > > The question was why such things are less common or sometimes even hard to find. It’s all a question of the market. Meat is a perishable, so stores won’t typically stock more than they think they can sell in a few days time, and for “exotic” meats, it just isn’t worth stocking any at all, especially since the cost per pound lost is greater than common meat. As for what kind of meat is considered “exotic”, this is a cultural issue. Someone mentioned the lack of horseflesh available in the US; in fact, I can’t ever recall horsemeat being sold, even in gourmet stores; in the States and in Great Britian there is a cultural disinclinement toward eating horse. (Knackers typically render the meat down for meal to make pet food.) In parts of Europe, though, horse is commonly eaten, as it is in much of Asia. On the other hand, you aren’t going to find pork on the menu anywhere in the Muslim-dominated Middle East, and steak is hard to come by in India (though I’m told it can be had.) Another issue is domestication; cattle, pork, sheep/goat, canines, and domestic fowl (chicken, turkey, goose) are [domesticated](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated), and therefore, are evolved/bred to live among people and are easy to raise and butcher. (“Hah!” says the cattle rancher. “Hah-hah!”, says the pig farmer.) Non-domesticated species, like reindeer, elk, ostrich, et cetera, are much more difficult to raise; they require special pasturing/food, and are more readily spooked in handling. (Species like horse, llama, and camel aren’t truely domesticated; while we’ve developed methods for taming them they are still in largely the same form as their wild ancestors and have more rebellious impulses.) Domestic animals are therefore easier to husband, plus they generally have more edible bits per total mass or per animal, and their meat is more homogenized, less textured, and less strongly flavored, seeing as how they are (artificially) evolved to be food sources. Ultimately, we’d like to create a “Dish of the Day”, which adores its role as a food source. (Aplogies to Douglas Adams.) You can, of course, get nearly any sort of exotic meat by going to a specialty or gourmet grocery–in Milwaukee, for instance, I went to V. Richards for elk steaks, bison tips, quail breast, and whole grouse–but for your Vons or Piggly Wiggly, they move a lot more steak, chicken, and espeically balogna than they ever would reindeer shank or octopus heart, so they don’t bother. That said, you’d be surprised sometimes what you can find in the remote corner of the “meat department” of even the chain groceries; with both Jewish and Muslim populations becoming more dispersed through the US lamb and mutton are nearly always found, and with people more concerned about cholesterol and saturated fats in traditional red meats, venison, bison, and ostrich can often be found, albeit at somewhat higher cost. Now, what I want to know is where I can find some naughahide cutlets. I’ve enjoyed their rich, duriable outer coverings for so long I’m sure their meat must be tender and juicy. Any suggestions on where to look? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/30 "2005-06-02T21:07:10Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > They aren’t. A fruit are the ripened ovaries of a plant, but the outer shell of a green bean doesn’t ripen – it remains the same. Here you’re mixing up the botanical and the culinary definitions of a “fruit.” According to the botanical definition, a fruit’s outer part doesn’t need to “ripen” (and green beans certainly qualify as fruits), while the culinary definition doesn’t require it to be the ovary that forms the fruit (e.g. strawberries). ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/31 "2005-06-02T23:57:17Z")
Marsh supermarkets, a big chain here, just had a big splash in their weekly ad yesterday for buffalo. In the US, buffalo means bison, not the true buffalo. There’s also a buffalo fish here, and I occasionally see it for sale. PayLess had ostrich products for a while, at very high prices, but not anymore. I once drove through Columbia, SC, where a sign said it was the “Squab Capital” of the US. Squab is pigeon, isn’t it? I have been to a BBQ and fish fry where grilled, marinated elk was served. The fellow who brought the elk had personally travelled to Hell-and-gone to shoot the elk himself. Full grown mutton generally isn’t eaten here, except by the folks who raise the sheep. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/32 "2005-06-03T14:01:46Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > There’s also a buffalo fish here, and I occasionally see it for sale. Buffalo fish is exotic? When I was a kid (in Ohio), we would often have buffalo fish because it was on the inexpensive side. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/33 "2005-06-03T14:33:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I can’t go into Subway and get a lamb sandwich. You may not be able to get one in a Subway, but any eastern Mediterranean deli or restaurant (Greek, Turkish, Middle-Eastern, etc.) should have them. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/34 "2005-06-03T14:48:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Species like horse, llama, and camel aren’t truely domesticated; while we’ve developed methods for taming them they are still in largely the same form as their wild ancestors and have more rebellious impulses. This isn’t really true. Of these three animals, horses have probably changed the least, but llamas and camels are quite changed. The ancestor of the [llama](http://www.sunvalleyllamas.com/llama%20two-step.jpg) is the [guanaco](http://www.serindigena.cl/territorios/recursos/biblioteca/glosario/fotos/guanaco.jpg); as you can see, there’s quite a bit of difference. Llamas are larger and stockier, having been bred to be pack animals. Likewise, [wild bactrian camels](http://www.wildcamels.com/Images/captive_reserve/4.jpg) are woolier and more slender than [domesticated ones](http://www.raphaelk.co.uk/web%20pics/Mongolia/first/Bactrian%20Camel.jpg). Wild dromedaries are extinct, so unfortunately I couldn’t find any pictures for comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/35 "2005-06-03T15:09:36Z")
OK, lamb is more common than I realized when writing the OP. Scratch the lamb. I’d still like to try a flamingo burrito. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/36 "2005-06-03T15:54:32Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > I’d still like to try a flamingo burrito. They don’t taste very good. Very tough and kinda plasticky-tasting. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/37 "2005-06-03T15:59:29Z")
Our local chain supermarket has beef, veal, pork, lamb, goat, chicken, turkey, and frequently duck. Local butchers will sell goose and mutton as well. At least one butcher carries venison, moose, elk, wild boar, and buffalo (bison), as well as various kinds of game fowl. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/38 "2005-06-03T16:19:10Z")
Well at my local supermarket I can get beef, lamb, chicken, fish. camel, rabbit, ostrich (on occasion) but no pork. I think a better book on the domestication of animals is called ‘A Perfect Harmony’ by the former head of the ASPCA. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/39 "2005-06-03T16:25:21Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I wouldn’t have to look around too hard to find kangaroo, alligator, ostrich, emu, rhea and kiwi (I actually know a guy that farms those last four birds, so that might be cheating) . KIWI! :eek: as an scarce endangered bird you would be hung drawn and quartered if you tried eating it in NZ. Probably tastes like old boots anyway. Are you sure you are not thinking of kiwifruit? ---
**Author:** ![Nocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@Nocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocturne)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489/40 "2005-06-03T16:57:01Z")
> [@awldune](#): > > Lamb is not commonly eaten where I live (southeast US). It might be available at the grocery store, but it is not prominently displayed. Most people I know don’t care for the texture or have never tried it. I live in the Southeast US, and all of the grocery stores that I visit/have visited in this city (4 different chains), all carry lamb, and all make it pretty conspicuous. My husband being a Kiwi, he had to have his lamb, and luckily most of the grocery stores carry affordable lambchops and roasts. Of course, one grocery store chain carries prominently displayed quail and duck, so maybe it’s a specialty grocery store. I doubt it though, because they’re all over the place. I can also think of at least one local restaurant that serves “unusual” bird dishes–by that I mean not chicken or turkey. Goose, quail, pheasant. But you are correct about it not being eaten a lot here. I’d only had it once or twice before I got married. However, your area grocery stores just may not carry it–I don’t live in a true melting-pot city, but there’s definitely a lot more ethnic diversity here than in most other parts of the Deep South I’ve been in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beef-chicken-turkey-pork-wheres-the-other-meat/306489.md?page=3)