# been asked to officiate at a wedding, which group is legitimate to become 'ordained' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 29, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748 "2018-01-29T18:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/21 "2018-01-30T05:00:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I just now became ordained by the U.L.C. > I am available for Christenings, weddings, funerals and keg blessings. Mazel tov? Hey – its late and I’m Lutheran. Its the best I could come up with. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/22 "2018-01-30T12:38:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I just now became ordained by the U.L.C. > I am available for Christenings, weddings, funerals and keg blessings. They used to (maybe still do) sell CLERGY placards for your dash, useful if parking is tight when you visit the hospital to comfort the afflicted. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/23 "2018-01-30T16:05:04Z")
The state of Washington does not recognize the ULC or other online “churches” if one wants to marry people. I was among many that had our certificates pulled when the law was changed. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/24 "2018-01-30T16:16:43Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > They used to (maybe still do) sell CLERGY placards for your dash, useful if parking is tight when you visit the hospital to comfort the afflicted. You can joke but that’s about the only time I’ve ever used mine. Especially for the VA in Oakland when I want to slip in before or after regular visiting hours. Not a bad perk at all really. Just be sure if you are going to do it, get registered with the hospital. Security isn’t always that dim. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/25 "2018-01-30T16:24:45Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > The state of Washington does not recognize the ULC or other online “churches” if one wants to marry people. I was among many that had our certificates pulled when the law was changed. So, the state of Washington is able to differentiate real “churches” from unreal “churches”, huh? Sorry, but that really pisses me off. Fuck you, state of Washington. > [@kopek](#): > > You can joke but that’s about the only time I’ve ever used mine. Especially for the VA in Oakland when I want to slip in before or after regular visiting hours. Not a bad perk at all really. Just be sure if you are going to do it, get registered with the hospital. Security isn’t always that dim. 😉 Not joking, however I’ve never used mine for that purpose. When I went for a cardiology recheck after my stent, I parked in Oakland and walked up the aptly named “cardiac hill”, stopping occasionally to catch my breath.😃 ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/26 "2018-01-30T18:09:50Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > The state of Washington does not recognize the ULC or other online “churches” if one wants to marry people. I was among many that had our certificates pulled when the law was changed. Do you have a cite for this? I’m not finding any references online. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/27 "2018-01-30T19:41:40Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? I’m not finding any references online. Thanks! Yeah. The ULC website itself gives no hint of difficulty whatsoever with ULC solemnization of a wedding within the state of Washington. > [@ULC Page for Washington State](#): > > **Washington Ordination Info** > ULC Ordination Recognized: _Yes_ > Minister Registration Required: _ **No** _ > State Residency: Irrelevant > Minimum Age to Officiate: None Seems pretty liberal to me. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/28 "2018-01-30T19:49:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I just now became ordained by the U.L.C. > I am available for Christenings, weddings, funerals and keg blessings. What are your fees for indulgences? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/29 "2018-01-31T17:20:49Z")
FWIW, I’m going to a training in April for Humanist Celebrants. Not sure if this is more “legit” than a ULC ordination or not. Again, New York is a real bear about this; I understand there’s a greater-than-nominal fee involved. Nevada (or at least Clark County) has some hoops to jump through, too - [though it’s interesting that Notaries can solemnize marriages with the best of 'em](http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/clerk/services/Pages/MinisterLicenses.aspx). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/30 "2018-01-31T17:22:35Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > What are your fees for indulgences? I hereby offer the entire world forgiveness for their sins. However, if you use this grace as an excuse to be an asshole because I’ve forgiven you, then I’m sending you to hell. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/31 "2018-01-31T21:11:12Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > The state of Washington does not recognize the ULC or other online “churches” if one wants to marry people. I was among many that had our certificates pulled when the law was changed. Not that I want to argue with a neighbor, but I wonder if something else might’ve been going on as Washington’s laws are predictably quite liberal. Could someone be trying to mess with you? I did a lot of searching for cases where marriage licenses in our state were invalidated and couldn’t find anything. Here’s the RCW: > [@](#): > > **Who may solemnize.** > > The following named officers and persons, active or retired, are hereby authorized to solemnize marriages, to wit: Justices of the supreme court, judges of the court of appeals, judges of the superior courts, supreme court commissioners, court of appeals commissioners, superior court commissioners, judges of courts of limited jurisdiction as defined in RCW 3.02.010, judges of tribal courts from a federally recognized tribe, and any regularly licensed or ordained minister or any priest, imam, rabbi, or similar official of any religious organization. The solemnization of a marriage by a tribal court judge pursuant to authority under this section does not create tribal court jurisdiction and does not affect state court authority as otherwise provided by law to enter a judgment for purposes of any dissolution, legal separation, or other proceedings related to the marriage that is binding on the parties and entitled to full faith and credit. [http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=26.04.050](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=26.04.050) Further, if I’m reading this right, even if someone isn’t an “official” as defined above, the marriage is still “not void”: > [@](#): > > **Marriage before unauthorized cleric—Effect.** > > A marriage solemnized before any person professing to be a minister or a priest, imam, rabbi, or similar official of any religious organization in this state or professing to be an authorized officer thereof, is not void, nor shall the validity thereof be in any way affected on account of any want of power or authority in such person, if such marriage be consummated with a belief on the part of the persons so married, or either of them, that they have been lawfully joined in marriage. [http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=26.04.060](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=26.04.060) ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/32 "2018-01-31T23:40:05Z")
The Washington question aside, the language above accounting for unauthorized clerics is what I’ve always heard as a matter of common law, too. If the folks getting married have every reason to think they’re getting legally married, then the court will usually recognize that there was a marriage. The Methodist Church in my hometown had a real winner of a cleric for a little bit in the 1960s. He claimed to be attending seminary in Denver during the week, but was in fact doing nothing of the sort. Someone told me he was working at a casino or something, but that might have been an embellishment. When the truth came out, a couple I knew were terrified that they weren’t really married. That’s the rationalle for this doctrine - no reason to turn innocent rural Nebraskans into heathen fornicators just because their minister (assigned by the bishop, in this case) turned out to be less than qualified. OTOH, screwing up as an officiant is a crime in some states. In Iowa, failure to file a signed marriage license within 30 days of solemnization is a misdemeanor. Not sure about other penalties in other jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/33 "2018-02-02T16:05:27Z")
The only thing I had was a letter from King County telling me my authorization to marry had been rescinded due to a change in state policy. A person I knew also received the same letter. I just said oh well and tossed it. I only married 2 couples and haven’t seen or heard from either since. Both of us that got the letter thought that our choice of documentation (a ULC certificate or ordination) was the reason. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/34 "2018-02-02T16:36:12Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > The Washington question aside, the language above accounting for unauthorized clerics is what I’ve always heard as a matter of common law, too. If the folks getting married have every reason to think they’re getting legally married, then the court will usually recognize that there was a marriage. That’s basically the way Maryland sees it. My wife wanted her cousin to officiate our wedding, but we were having the “big” ceremony in Virginia, whose requirements are much more stringent. So I researched Maryland (where we live) and their stance is, to paraphrase, “If all parties involved agree that this person is an authorized officiant, the State is not going to argue.” So I had one of my friends get an “American Marriage Ministries” ordainment and had him sign our license. ---
**Author:** ![Dickerman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@Dickerman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dickerman)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/35 "2018-02-02T16:56:17Z")
My daughter was married last year (in Washington State) by a priest(ess?) of the Church of the Latter-Day Dude. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/36 "2018-02-02T18:36:59Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > The Methodist Church in my hometown had a real winner of a cleric for a little bit in the 1960s. He claimed to be attending seminary in Denver during the week, but was in fact doing nothing of the sort. Someone told me he was working at a casino or something, but that might have been an embellishment. When the truth came out, a couple I knew were terrified that they weren’t really married. That’s the rationalle for this doctrine - no reason to turn innocent rural Nebraskans into heathen fornicators just because their minister (assigned by the bishop, in this case) turned out to be less than qualified. I have no idea if that story inspired [a particular episode of Gilligan’s Island](http://gilligan.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._and_Mrs._%3F%3F%3F), but I’m amused to think that it might have. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/37 "2018-02-02T21:37:36Z")
In Massachusetts anyone can get a one day officiant certificate valid for a specific wedding for $25 dollars. And if you don’t pay attention to the deadlines and apply too late, that can be fixed as well with a couple of phone calls … ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/38 "2018-02-03T01:53:32Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I have no idea if that story inspired [a particular episode of Gilligan’s Island](http://gilligan.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._and_Mrs._%3F%3F%3F), but I’m amused to think that it might have. 😃 I think it happens a lot. Clergy really are a pretty mixed bag. Ask anyone who’s dealt with a lot of clergy as part of their job. The stories aren’t as wild as you’ll find in rock music or professional wrestling (or, probably, even restaurant servers, to be honest), but they’ll give them a run on a good day. > [@racer72](#): > > The only thing I had was a letter from King County telling me my authorization to marry had been rescinded due to a change in state policy. A person I knew also received the same letter. I just said oh well and tossed it. I only married 2 couples and haven’t seen or heard from either since. Both of us that got the letter thought that our choice of documentation (a ULC certificate or ordination) was the reason. That’s wild. I would think their [website](https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/records-licensing/recorders-office/marriage-licensing.aspx) would have an admonition about that if it were the case. Do you mind asking how long ago this was? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/39 "2018-02-03T22:07:36Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > I just said oh well and tossed it. I only married 2 couples In Aus (which has strict requirments on marriage celebrants, and loose definitions of “marriage”), that would get you de-listed. Marriage celebrants either provide a steady service, or are removed from registration. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748/40 "2018-02-03T22:54:39Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > If the couple want a religious wedding, why ask an atheist? If they want a civil officiant, why are you looking to get a religious varnish? What is the couple really looking for? Sometimes you want a wedding that is legally valid, but you don’t want to do it in a courthouse and you don’t want a religious ceremony, and you don’t want to have to convince a judge to perform a wedding (and pay him/her to do it). And possibly you would like someone with whom you actually have some sort of personal connection to do it rather than a random stranger. That’s why we got **Tom Scud’s** sister to officiate our wedding - she had done it previously for several other friends. Luckily Illinois doesn’t get into the business of deciding what is an actual religious denomination, so her existing Universal Life Church ordination was just fine for our purposes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/been-asked-to-officiate-at-a-wedding-which-group-is-legitimate-to-become-ordained/807748.md?page=3)