# Beer hall putsch---treason? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 12, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233 "2008-07-12T14:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/1 "2008-07-12T14:14:57Z")
Why weren’t those involved in the Beer Hall Putsch in the 1920’s executed for treason? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/2 "2008-07-12T14:25:51Z")
The Weimar Republic was often lenient when it came to fascist parties such as the Nazis. “Why” is a big question. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/3 "2008-07-12T15:49:13Z")
Not so much the Weimar Republic, but the Bavarian authorities by whom Hitler and the conspirators were tried. Many of them were sympathetic to right-wing causes and loathed Berlin and the national government almost as much as the Nazis did. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/4 "2008-07-12T16:45:19Z")
The courts were overwhelmingly ‘blind in the right eye’ (the common German expression). A statistic from 1918-1923 (Emil Julius Gumbel: _Vier Jahre politischer Mord_) Political murders committed by left-wingers: 22 Left-wingers convicted for these murders: 38 Left-wingers executed for these murders: 10 Political murders committed by right-wingers: 354 Right-wingers convicted for these murders: 24 Right-wingers executed for these murders: 0 The court where Hitler and accomplices were tried for high treason was not only lenient with regard to the length of the sentences; it also spared the social reputations of the convicted by convicting them to _Festungshaft_ (imprisonment in a fortress) as opposed to a normal prison term. _Festungshaft_ was not considered dishonorable, prison was (and if Hitler had had to serve a prison term the odium of an ex-con would have prevented a lot of people from making common cause with him.) ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/5 "2008-07-16T19:29:00Z")
Now that I have dug out the book I can give a _proper_ cite; it turns out I mistook the year of publication: Emil Julius Gumbel: Vier Jahre politischer Mord, Verlag der Neuen Gesellschaft, Berlin-Fichtenau 1922, p. 81 (cited after reissue in: Emil Julius Gumbel: Vier Jahre politischer Mord und Denkschrift des Reichsjustizministeriums zu “Vier Jahre Poitischer Mord”, Verlag Das Wunderhorn, Heidelberg 1980). My translation. (note there is a list of all murders tabulated, covering a period from 11 Jan 1919 to 24 Jun 1922). The four years of the title refer to a larger picture of political violence which began in 1918. The last two of the rightist murders tabulated were one former and one present cabinet ministers. ```auto Murders by leftists by rightists total, of which 22 354 ... unpunished 4 326 ... punished (some perps) 1 27 ... punished (all perps) 17 1 Persons convicted 38 24 Perpretators confessed, but were acquitted - 23 Perpetrators confessed, but promoted - 3 (in their posts) Prison sentences, total 248 yr 9 mo 90 yr 2 mo Average prison sentence per murder 15 years 4 months Persons executed 10 - Average fine per murder - 2 marks ``` ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/6 "2008-07-16T19:53:33Z")
Ah, cool. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/7 "2008-07-17T07:32:20Z")
IIRC, at Hitler’s trial, the head of the Prussian Police force was on the stand. He was a right winger, and he was asked if there were political murders being perpetrated in his district. His reply was: “Yes, but not enough of them.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/8 "2008-07-17T13:27:35Z")
Right. Sometimes we forget just how much sympathy there was for fascism and kindred ideologies at the time – or we want to forget, and pretend it was just a freak occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/9 "2008-07-17T14:56:29Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] The Weimar Republic was often lenient when it came to fascist parties such as the Nazis. “Why” is a big question. [/QUOTE] Well, “why” isn’t that much of a question. It’s because the judiciary tended to be right wing and sympathetic to the right wing, and therefore more prone to excuse right wing violence. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-hall-putsch-treason/456233/10 "2008-07-17T15:42:15Z")
It’s amazing how many people try to pass off Weimar Germany as a functioning democracy the equivalent to modern America or Britian. Hitler didn’t come to power because an otherwise peaceful and prosperous country decided the brown shirts looked snappy. He came to power in a brutal process where he outright murdered his rivals and used a massive amount of pre-existing corruption to lever himself into high office.