# Beer or other alchohol served at a kindergarden festival - Right or wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 30, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348 "2004-03-30T17:29:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/21 "2004-03-31T02:02:06Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > **Grey** , if you look at my first post in this thread, you’ll note that I have no objection to the beer. **MF** then said that his problem has something to do with the behavior of the parents: that there is a perception that dads won’t come if there’s no beer, and then **MF** ’s own observation that the dads tend to hang out at the beer wagon and not with their children. Whether or not those perceptions are true, they have less to do with the actual beer as with the parents themselves–and whether or not the parents are less than ideal, **MF** is not going to be able to change their behavior one way or the other. Therefore my opinion is that the beer is unobjectionable in itself, and there is no point in expending energy on this issue-- the beer part or the parents part. Sorry about that. I reread your post and I see what you mean now. ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/22 "2004-03-31T09:04:58Z")
> [@burundi](#): > > I’d personally be more enthusiastic about attending a children’s festival if I knew there’d be beer, and I’m a woman. If it brings parents out, makes them happy, and doesn’t hurt the kids, I’m all for it. And I believe you mentioned that the cocktail bar brings in a nice chunk of change for the school. > > You have to pick your battles. Is this one worth picking? There’s no battle to pick. It seemed odd. I checked, and there is no law or regulation against it. My wife asked if it was necessary, and was told off by other folks in the planning. OK, I can go along. I just wondered if my wife and I (and our friends) are weird or if everyone else on the planet thinks there’s no problem with alcohol in kindergarden. No battle, just questions with the awareness that I’ve got my own views of things and the awareness that my view may be skewed. ---
**Author:** ![Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Planet_of_the_Shapes)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/23 "2004-03-31T11:14:53Z")
I would go further than to say its ok, i would say its probably actually beneficial for the children. The logical extension of the alternative is that you should never drink alcohol when children are around. This means the children will grow up thinking that alcohol is some sort of forbidden fruit that adults only drink when children are not around. They will give it a sort of attractive mystique and make them very curious about it. If parents drink it around children though, they will see that it is just a drink that adults like, and if they are allowed to take a sip they will find they don’t like the taste. Would you rather children viewed alcohol as a mysterious attractive thing that they want to try, or a nasty tasting drink that adults like for some strange reason? ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/24 "2004-03-31T11:32:48Z")
> [@Mort Furd](#): > > There’s no battle to pick. It seemed odd. I checked, and there is no law or regulation against it. My wife asked if it was necessary, and was told off by other folks in the planning. OK, I can go along. I just wondered if my wife and I (and our friends) are weird or if everyone else on the planet thinks there’s no problem with alcohol in kindergarden. > > No battle, just questions with the awareness that I’ve got my own views of things and the awareness that my view may be skewed. I think the fact you felt the need to check there is no law or regulation against it suggests you have a trust issue. If you let it be know you had gone and done that I can understand an undercurrent of hostility against you. They have been organising this thing for years and you think they do not know the law. It is \*\*\*Germans \* \*\* we are talking about here - apart from the Swiss about as law-abiding as you get. You asked. Yes, from an European perspective you and your wife are weird. But don’t worry, Europeans expect many Americans to be weird about stuff like drugs, alcohol and firearms - they will forgive and forget it Checking out whether they were breaking their laws though WILL offend if you make a habit of it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/25 "2004-03-31T11:43:56Z")
I personally don’t see any problems with having alcohol at a kindergarten. The kids get to drink juice and softdrinks, and the adults can have a beer, where’s the problem? I don’t see it as any different from having a BBQ where the adults have a few drinks and the kids play games by the pool and eat sausages. ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/26 "2004-03-31T23:48:02Z")
> [@notquitekarpov](#): > > I think the fact you felt the need to check there is no law or regulation against it suggests you have a trust issue. If you let it be know you had gone and done that I can understand an undercurrent of hostility against you. They have been organising this thing for years and you think they do not know the law. It is \*\*\*Germans \* \*\* we are talking about here - apart from the Swiss about as law-abiding as you get. > > You asked. Yes, from an European perspective you and your wife are weird. > > But don’t worry, Europeans expect many Americans to be weird about stuff like drugs, alcohol and firearms - they will forgive and forget it > > Checking out whether they were breaking their laws though WILL offend if you make a habit of it. Hey, whoa. My wife asked the planning committee if it was really necessary to have beer at the festival. I called the ministry and asked about laws and regulations - without telling anyone I was doing it. Nobody on the committee knows I asked about laws, and neither my wife nor I emplied to the planning committee that we thought they were breaking any laws. This is not about causing problems, it is about clarifiying the situation. OK. My wife and I and our friends (Germans) are oddballs. We’ll live with it and not upset the folks here. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/27 "2004-03-31T23:55:09Z")
But what would you have done if you found there was a law applicable, say they needed a license to sell the cocktails? Would you have used that to change the way the event was planned? ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/28 "2004-04-01T00:02:11Z")
Hey, Jesus made some holy moonshine for a party. So I suppose a little wine isn’t bad. Just leave the beer hats at home. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/29 "2004-04-01T02:30:14Z")
There’s no real _need_ for them to have beer and such, no. But there’s no real _need_ for them to have clowns, either, you know? Your wife suggested scrapping something that’s completely harmless, that many people enjoy, and that makes a whole lot of money for the PTA (thus benefitting the school and your kid), and you’re wondering why she got her ass handed to her? Trust me, PTA’s are never exactly over-funded, and when they find a good fund-raiser that doesn’t involve pimping the kids out to sell stuff, they’re sticking with it. ---
**Author:** ![Tokyo\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@Tokyo\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tokyo_Mann)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/30 "2004-04-01T02:59:43Z")
A couple of thoughts. > [@Mort Furd](#): > > . . . and neither my wife nor I emplied to the planning committee that we thought they were breaking any laws. This is not about causing problems, it is about clarifiying the situation. In the OP, you said “she was nearly lynched for suggesting that these time honored plans be scrapped.” which the other members of the commitee seemed to have taken as “causing problems.” It’s pretty common to serve beer and other alcohol (to the adults, of course) at weekend events at grade school and kindergarten in Japan. I don’t see the issue. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/31 "2004-04-01T04:06:31Z")
> [@Mort Furd](#): > > I think one of things that really bugs me about the situation is the most strenuous objection that my wife heard from the other women - “If there’s no beer, my husband won’t come to the festival.” Spending a few hours with the kids won’t get ‘em out of the house, but they’ll come a runnin’ for a beer? While this might be troubling, it is not sufficient reason to object to the beer being there. To repeat what others have said, serving beer or not serving beer is not going to change that problem (that the father’s priorities aren’t where you think they should be). I’ll also point out that this is nothing more than what _some_ women offered as reasons. You have no idea if these women are representative of most families–or if these women are speaking accurately for their own husbands. They’re merely speculating. ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/32 "2004-04-01T16:44:26Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > But what would you have done if you found there was a law applicable, say they needed a license to sell the cocktails? Would you have used that to change the way the event was planned? I’d have had a quiet word with the kindergarden director suggesting that they get things in line with the law, and I expect that would have been the end of it. As someone else mentioned above, Germans are very law abiding. ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/33 "2004-04-01T17:20:10Z")
> [@Mort Furd](#): > > OK. My wife and I and our friends (Germans) are oddballs. We’ll live with it and not upset the folks here. Good for you - fine decision! Hey, it is none of my business but how about you try and set an example for the beer-tent-bound fathers. Have a beer or two with them ( 😉 ) and try to pursuade them en mass to join in one of the activities? If only a few of them go for it you have done something positive to bring about change on the key behavour issues that bother you. Who knows? After a couple of wets they could be up for anything… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/34 "2004-04-02T00:29:05Z")
I was going to opine that there never really is a wrong time for beer, then the fact that this took (is taking) place in Germany, and that clinched it. If you are in a location where good beer is the norm not the exception (unlike this lousy country) then I say definitely go for it. Just don’t let the little kindergarteners have more than two 🙂 . ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348/35 "2004-04-02T01:22:03Z")
If your objection is alone the lines of moral, legal or safety issues, then I would try to move myself as quickly as possible from the activitiy. If on the other hand, this is simply cultural, when in Rome do as the Romans. The quickest way to inflame local people anywhere is for people outside the area to leave the impression the natives customs are not socially acceptable and must be changed only because those customs are different from yours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beer-or-other-alchohol-served-at-a-kindergarden-festival-right-or-wrong/237348.md?page=1)