# Bees are still dying: how screwed are we? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377 "2013-05-15T05:25:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/21 "2013-05-15T14:36:56Z")
All the bees in the world could die and it wouldn’t make a huge difference. Short term disturbances in the agricultural industry as other insects and animals take over the job. Honey producers and commercial beekeepers suffer, but that’s about it. Also, they aren’t all going to die, so there’s no reason to worry. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/22 "2013-05-15T14:37:07Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Cite would be appreciated. For cyclical collapses? That’s in the link from his very post that you’re criticizing. > [@](#): > > If you read your article carefully then, despite all the other causes mentioned and elaborated on, the conclusion is: pesticides. I don’t know anything about honeybees aside from these occasional news articles, and found **Chief Pedant** ’s linking to a government agency that does research on the matter to be informative and helpful. It also wasn’t a link to an “article” it was a link to a public agency that contained links to many more pieces of information. It also says right at the beginning that there is no scientific consensus for the cause, so I find it strange you’re stating the conclusion is “pesticides” when that isn’t what the ARS is saying. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/23 "2013-05-15T14:46:17Z")
In 5 years someone will be a billionaire after inventing self-replicating mechano-bees. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/24 "2013-05-15T14:49:53Z")
Since it is from a government website there should be no issue with copying a large passage in full, but considering how badly **Latro** misrepresented what the Agricultural Research Service was saying I thought it important to paste in a copy of the relevant text: > [@](#): > > Research Directions Scientists are looking in four general categories for the cause/causes of CCD: > > [ol] > [li] **Pathogens** : Among others, scientists are considering _Nosema_ (a pathogenic gut fungi), Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus, and possibly unknown pathogens as possible culprits in CCD. ARS research has indicated that no one pathogen of any class directly correlates with the majority of CCD incidents. Rather, a higher total pathogen load of viruses and bacteria correlates more directly with CCD than any one specific pathogen.[/li][li] **Parasites** : Varroa mites are often found in honey bee colonies that are affected by CCD. It is not known if the Varroa mites are directly involved or if the viruses that Varroa mites transmit (similar to the way mosquitoes transmit the malaria virus) are a factor in causing CCD.[/li][li] **Management stressors** : Among the management stressors that are possible contributors to CCD are poor nutrition due to apiary overcrowding and increased migratory stress brought on by the honey bees being transported to multiple locations across the country.[/li][li] **Environmental stressors** : Such stressors include the impact of pollen/nectar scarcity, lack of diversity in nectar/pollen, availability of only pollen/nectar with low nutritional value, and limited access to water or access only to contaminated water. Stressors also include accidental or intentional exposure to pesticides at lethal or sub-lethal levels.[/li][/ol] > A survey of honey bee colonies revealed no consistent pattern in pesticide levels between healthy and CCD-affected colonies when pollen, bees, and beeswax were tested for the presence of 170 pesticides. The most commonly found pesticide in that study was coumaphos, which is used to treat honey bees for _Varroa_ mites. > > The pesticide class neonicotinoids (clothianidin, thiamethoxam, and imidacloprid) has been accused of being the cause of CCD. The neonicotinoids were developed in the mid-1990s in large part because they showed reduced toxicity to honey bees, compared with previously used organophosphate and carbamate insecticides. > In 2008, Germany revoked the registration of the neonicotinoid clothianidin for use on seed corn after an incident that resulted in the die-off of hundreds of nearby honey bees colonies. Investigation into the incident revealed that the die-off was caused by a combination of factors, including the failure to use a polymer seed coating known as a “sticker”: weather conditions that resulted in late planting of corn while nearby canola crops were in bloom, attracting honey bees; use of a particular type of air-driven equipment used to sow the seeds, which blew clothianidin-laden dust off the seeds and into the air as the seeds were ejected from the machine into the ground; dry and windy conditions at the time of planting, which blew the dust into the nearby canola fields where honey bees were foraging; and a higher application rate than had been authorized was used to treat for a severe root worm infestation. > > Several studies that reported a negative impact on honey bees by neonicotinoids relied on large, unrealistic doses and gave bees no other choice for pollen, and therefore did not reflect risk to honey bees under real world conditions. Nor have the studies demonstrated a direct connection or correlation to CCD. > > There have been scientific findings that imply that neonicotinoids have sublethal effects on honey bees at approved doses and exposures. ARS scientists and other researchers are looking into whether such sublethal effects may correlate with CCD or other bee health problems and whether they could be a contributing cause of CCD. > ARS held a workshop with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in early 2010 to discuss how potential sublethal effects could be documented summarized in _[Pesticide Risk Assessment for Pollinators: Summary of a SETAC Pellston Workshop](http://www.setac.org/resource/resmgr/publications_and_resources/executivesummarypollinators_.pdf?hhSearchTerms=SETAC+and+Pellston+and+Workshop)_. > > ARS researchers also have been analyzing samples from healthy and CCD-struck colonies and applying a variety of stressors from the four categories of possible causes to colonies in hopes of provoking a colony response that duplicates CCD. > While a number of potential causes have been championed by a variety of researchers and interest groups, none of them have stood up to detailed scrutiny. > > Every time a claim is made of finding a “smoking gun,” further investigation has not been able to make the leap from a correlation to cause-and-effect. Other times, not even a scientific correlation has been demonstrated in the study claiming to have found “the cause” of CCD. > > Researchers have concluded that no one factor is the cause of CCD. Most likely, CCD is caused by multiple factors. It is not possible to know at this time if all CCD incidents are due to the same set of factors or if the factors follow the same sequence in every case. > > One explanation for CCD being studied is that a perfect storm of environmental stresses may unexpectedly weaken colonies, leading to collapse when the colonies are exposed to the additional stress of a pathogen, parasite, and/or pesticide. Stress, in general, compromises the immune system of bees (and other social insects) and may disrupt their social system, making colonies more susceptible to disease. > > Studies are being conducted by ARS scientists and collaborators to look at the combined impact of two or more factors on honey bees—most recently the impact of exposure to the neonicotinoid imidacloprid and _Nosema_. While the dual exposure indicated some sublethal effects on individual honey bees, the overall health of the colony did not show an adverse effect. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/25 "2013-05-15T14:52:23Z")
a beekeeper friend of mine says everyone he knows has lost almost all their hives. But not all, and they are swapping queen bees around the country to try to hurry the process of ‘breeding’ a strain able to survive whatever it is that is the culprit. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/26 "2013-05-15T14:55:45Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Cite would be appreciated. > > If you read your article carefully then, despite all the other causes mentioned and elaborated on, the conclusion is: pesticides. > > Yes, a lot of smart folks have been working actively on the problem, and the answer is neonicotinoid pesticides. > Another thing, it’s not just the bees, crittercount in pools, soil and rivers is down too. It’s just the bees we notice first. > > But has someone given these smart folks authority to act on their findings? > > So who is actually going to ring up Bayer and say: “Hello old boy, rotten news for you but it seems you are going to have to close down about 40 of your factories” > “Hmmm?” " Yes, worldwide, that’s right" “Awfully sorry, old chap, but there it is.” > > Because that’s what politicians do all the time, right? Acting on our behalf, aren’t they? I gave the cite in my post, at the end: [http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=15572](http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=15572) I cannot determine why you think the article I referenced concludes definitively that the problem is pesticides. From the article I cited: \*This is not the first time that beekeepers are being faced with unexplained losses. The scientific literature has several mentions of honey bee disappearances—in the 1880s, the 1920s, and the 1960s. While the descriptions sound similar to CCD, there is no way to know for sure if those problems were caused by the same agents as CCD. There have also been unusual colony losses before. In 1903, in the Cache Valley in Utah, 2000 colonies were lost to an unknown “disappearing disease” after a “hard winter and a cold spring.” More recently, in 1995-96, Pennsylvania beekeepers lost 53 percent of their colonies without a specific identifiable cause… While a number of potential causes have been championed by a variety of researchers and interest groups, none of them have stood up to detailed scrutiny. Every time a claim is made of finding a “smoking gun,” further investigation has not been able to make the leap from a correlation to cause-and-effect. Other times, not even a scientific correlation has been demonstrated in the study claiming to have found “the cause” of CCD. Researchers have concluded that no one factor is the cause of CCD… - In the Wired article cited in the OP, the comments by Francesco Nazzi at the end are worth a look. But perhaps it’s more exciting to suspect incompetent politicians, unwilling to give anyone authority to act, in the back pocket of Big Industry. Unfortunately, those kinds of conspiracy thrills don’t typically lead to resolution, although they make for better movies and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/27 "2013-05-15T14:56:09Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > so I find it strange you’re stating the conclusion is “pesticides” when that isn’t what the ARS is saying. It is the bit at the end, usually where you find conclusions. > [@](#): > > Best Recommendation for Beekeepers > Since little is known for sure about the cause(s) of CCD, mitigation must be based on improving general honey bee health and habitat and countering known mortality factors by using best management practices. This includes supplemental feeding in times of nectar/pollen scarcity. > > Best Recommendations for the Public > The best action the public can take to improve honey bee survival is not to use pesticides indiscriminately. In particular, the public should avoid applying pesticides during mid-day hours, when honey bees are most likely to be out foraging for nectar and pollen on flowering plants. > > In addition, the public can plant pollinator-friendly plants—plants that are good sources of nectar and pollen such as red clover, foxglove, bee balm, joe-pye weed, and other native plants. (For more information, visit [www.nappc.org](http://www.nappc.org).) Of course the article is careful in its wording, but the conclusion shows pretty clear in their advice to the public. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/28 "2013-05-15T15:02:20Z")
They are looking at four major areas of research to explain CCD and giving recommendations most likely based on the only area that beekeepers can make any meaningful changes. That isn’t the same as them attributing CCD to pesticides. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/29 "2013-05-15T15:21:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > All the bees in the world could die and it wouldn’t make a huge difference. Short term disturbances in the agricultural industry as other insects and animals take over the job. Honey producers and commercial beekeepers suffer, but that’s about it. > > Also, they aren’t all going to die, so there’s no reason to worry. Yes, we will just offer occupational training to mosquitos and Cornish hens so they can become pollinators. Seriously, do you have any knowledge about how commercial pollination works and the extent to which is used by modenr agricultural industries? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/30 "2013-05-15T15:22:12Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > From the article I cited: > > \*This is not the first time that beekeepers are being faced with unexplained losses. The scientific literature has several mentions of honey bee disappearances—in the 1880s, the 1920s, and the 1960s. While the descriptions sound similar to CCD, there is no way to know for sure if those problems were caused by the same agents as CCD. Okay, my bad, first I’ve heard of it. > [@](#): > > In the Wired article cited in the OP, the comments by Francesco Nazzi at the end are worth a look. Yay, someone in Udine finally weighs in. But then Nazzi goes on to say: > [@](#): > > Evidence about potential **neonicotinoid harm, though, is “convincing enough to suggest caution,** ” he said. “One may say that a broader ban may not be sufficient on its own to ‘save’ the bees, but it could help.” So much for the obligatory dissenting view.. > [@](#): > > In the European Union, where neonicotinoid use will be decreased but not eliminated for the next two years, Nazzi does not expect to see any clear, black-and-white effect. True, because only a handful out of some 20 kinds of neonicotinoid pesticides are being bannned and companies have already just switched to using neonicotinoid pesticides in their products, that aren’t on the list. Another way to by-pass the ban is creating new types of NP that simply aren’t on any list yet. Also the neonicotinoid pesticides don’t break down very easily. They remain inside plants and the soil for quite some time. So, no the European ban is not going to yield immediate results. > [@](#): > > But perhaps it’s more exciting to suspect incompetent politicians, unwilling to give anyone authority to act, in the back pocket of Big Industry. Unfortunately, those kinds of conspiracy thrills don’t typically lead to resolution, although they make for better movies and whatnot. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/31 "2013-05-15T15:43:57Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Yes, we will just offer occupational training to mosquitos and Cornish hens so they can become pollinators. > > Seriously, do you have any knowledge about how commercial pollination works and the extent to which is used by modenr agricultural industries? > > Stranger I said there would be disruptions. We’ll find another way to do it, just like we found replacements for tin. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/32 "2013-05-15T15:56:12Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I said there would be disruptions. We’ll find another way to do it, just like we found replacements for tin. And the factual basis for this statement, other than a far-flung analogy, is…? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/33 "2013-05-15T16:32:18Z")
Far-flung, pah. How can you so easily dismiss the clear similarities between honey bees and tin? They’re practically identical! ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/34 "2013-05-15T16:34:14Z")
Question: I seem to recall being told that the honeybees we have now in the U.S. were imports from Europe and that honeybees were nonexistent in the Americas before European settlement. Does this have any truth to it? ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/35 "2013-05-15T16:41:39Z")
I feel the bees have lost vigour and strength due to inbreeding.(edit to add, yes they are imported imported from europe, or were, due to high honey making capacity, nowadays, bred in labs etc…you can buy a queen through the mail with some workers for her too!! Make more honey than you can use!!!) Perhaps selection for honey production rather than strength…? I’ve raised a few bee hives, its not easy, and when things go bad, chemicals and medicines are tossed around to solve things, which, similar to overuse of anti-biotics, may make the problem worse. anecdotally: This year, bees here in SoCal, seem to be “ok”…many reports of hives in homes, and swarms looking for new nest areas (a good sign) and local fruit trees outside commercial areas (my house) are BUZZING with bees. Whatever happened to that invasion of the “dreaded” africanized bees? I had heard that they would double the honey output, but were much more difficult to work with, due to agressivness, and thats why the industry was concerned. And the potential to be stung to death also, (people and pets) which has been happening abit this year as well. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/36 "2013-05-15T16:51:00Z")
missed the edit: I was only talking about the european honey bee, there are something like 4000 native north american bee species. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/37 "2013-05-15T16:59:08Z")
Very interesting! Are the \*native \*N.A. bees also endangered? If the imported European honey bees died out here, could the native ones do the necessary pollination? Do the European ones produce more or better honey? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/38 "2013-05-15T17:01:09Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > So much for the obligatory dissenting view.. You’re really contributing to ignorance here. The cites that have been presented in this thread that capture scientific consensus indicate there is not a current known reason for CCD. There are several suspected causes, but **none have a perfect correlation with colonies that undergo CCD**. The scientific consensus then seems to be that it’s a complicated issue and there is no clear idea as to why it is happening at all. So the idea that there even needs to be an “obligatory dissenting view” is a false one. There isn’t a scientific consensus on what’s causing CCD. It looks like there are several areas of concern that would indicate trying some things differently than we have in the past, but it doesn’t appear there is any successful methods anyone has come up with to stop CCD. It also appears at least possible that it’s a result of some cyclical process (perhaps there is some disease that has a cyclical pattern in honeybees for example) that could be at play indicating there may be nothing we can do about it. It could also be the result of us taking a non-native bee species and screwing up their natural reproductive process so much we may have created a less viable species from what it otherwise would have been. But either way, this isn’t like AGW versus AGW denialists. There’s no scientific consensus here and you’re presenting a false claim that there is. > [@](#): > > True, because only a handful out of some 20 kinds of neonicotinoid pesticides are being bannned and companies have already just switched to using neonicotinoid pesticides in their products, that aren’t on the list. I find it interesting neonicotinoid pesticides appear to have been specifically developed because they were tested as less harmful to honeybees than pesticides used in the 80s. While that may end up not being true, there is a long history of honeybees and pesticide exposure dating back many generations. Considering the imperfect correlation between neonicotinoid exposure and CCD I would not be surprised if CCD is a collection of stressors on the honeybee population causing greater than average colony die-off. [I also found it interesting the “normal/acceptable” die off range was 15%, so apparently beekeeping even in the best of times involves significant die off of colonies every year.] ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/39 "2013-05-15T17:03:33Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Very interesting! Are the \*native \*N.A. bees also endangered? If the imported European honey bees died out here, could the native ones do the necessary pollination? Do the European ones produce more or better honey? From the Agricultural Research Service’s page on CCD: > [@](#): > > Honey bees are not native to the New World; they came from Europe with the first settlers. There are native pollinators in the United States, but honey bees are more prolific and easier to manage on a commercial level for pollination of a wide variety of crops. Almonds, for example, are completely dependent on honey bees for pollination. In California, the almond industry requires the use of 1.4 million colonies of honey bees, approximately 60 percent of all managed honey bee colonies in the United States. It looks like the almond industry in America would basically be destroyed, and while some low level growth of other flowering products would probably be able to continue with natural pollinators it would probably be a niche industry and not the large scale agriculture we’ve created. The scale of pollination efforts means native/natural approaches simply would not be able to fill the void. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377/40 "2013-05-15T17:05:16Z")
Not enough bees, eh? [I think I know who can solve this problem…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYtXuBN1Hvc) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bees-are-still-dying-how-screwed-are-we/658377.md?page=3)