# Beethoven and co... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 9, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479 "2013-03-09T14:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wabsnazsm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/2acd7d/32.png) [@wabsnazsm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wabsnazsm)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/1 "2013-03-09T14:07:14Z")
I’m not by any stretch the imagination, a classical music buff but I was wondering, how close did Beethoven get to writing a rock n roll tune? Can anything that he wrote be classed as “bluesy?” How old IS rock music? Hmmmm? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/2 "2013-03-09T14:24:55Z")
He did. The Beatles sang his “Song of Joy” in **A Hard Day’s Night.** Rock and roll tunes are more about the beat than the melody. Beethoven’s music was generally more complex than rock, but plenty of his melodies could be done with a rock beat. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/3 "2013-03-09T14:31:49Z")
He did invent ragtime music. Start listening at 6:30: [Claudio Arrau - Beethoven Sonata No. 32 - 2nd Mvmt. (1/2) - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9GYArGlM7g) ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/4 "2013-03-09T14:32:55Z")
That’s, like, deep, man! I’d say Beethoven came about 150 years to writing a Rock & Roll song, and he did not compose anything “bluesy” in the sense that he never composed a repeating 12-bar pattern with the chord progression I-I-I-I-IV-IV-I-I-V-IV-I-V. Bach, however, composed pieces that some Jazz musicians, like Jacques Loussier, like to turn into Jazz music, partly due to the moving bass lines and similar chord structure to actual Jazz. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/5 "2013-03-09T17:15:10Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > He did. The Beatles sang his “Song of Joy” in **A Hard Day’s Night.** No. “Ode to Joy” was used in _Help!_ ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/6 "2013-03-09T17:26:07Z")
> [@wabsnazsm](#): > > how close did Beethoven get to writing a rock n roll tune? Ever see [Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Q8UGAbAPPkk#t=54s)? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/7 "2013-03-09T17:32:07Z")
Those of us who were around in the Seventies will remember “[A Fifth of Beethoven](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH9kiOZ9u_k)” by Walter Murphy (who is nowadays more famous for doing the music for _Family Guy_). ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/8 "2013-03-09T18:12:39Z")
Piano Sonata #18: the main theme of the 2nd movement has always struck me as proto-boogie woogie. It’s actually fun to play this (however poorly, in my case). Starts at about 6:17 in the linked video. > **[Beethoven Piano Sonata No. 18 in E flat - 1st & 2nd mvt. - Enzo](https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=40227.0)** > > Beethoven Piano Sonata No. 18 in E flat - 1st & 2nd mvt. - Enzo ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/9 "2013-03-09T18:13:13Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > He did invent ragtime music. Start listening at 6:30: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9GYArGlM7g](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9GYArGlM7g) I couldn’t get this link to work. Could you cite the source in words? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/10 "2013-03-09T18:16:22Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I couldn’t get this link to work. Could you cite the source in words? It worked for me. It’s Claudio Arrau playing the 2nd movement of Beethoven’s Piano Sonata No. 32 (Op. 111). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/11 "2013-03-09T18:22:42Z")
Moved to Cafe Society. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/12 "2013-03-09T19:52:26Z")
[This goes to eleven](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekHcrG2BCWE) at about 13:50. I think even he could hear it. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/13 "2013-03-09T19:59:54Z")
Electric Light Orchestra recorded a version of Chuck Berry’s [Roll Over Beethoven](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxXl4oS9wss) that heavily incorporated Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/14 "2013-03-09T21:53:23Z")
Piano Sonata 15/2 has a boogy-woogy feel to it: [link](http://youtu.be/fN-z8ZQXEQw?t=1h13m24s) Also, the very end of the 9th Symphony has a [Heavy Metal excess to it](http://youtu.be/cleDzqzDpOU?t=1h15m15s): Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, Bang-uh, …Bang! (edit - skip to 1hr, 15 minute mark, the youtube link to the time doesn’t seem to work properly) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/15 "2013-03-10T01:42:34Z")
Well, there’s [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1oZmRA2K1E). I’m not going to vouch for it being 100% accurate, though. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/16 "2013-03-10T03:38:24Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Rock and roll tunes are more about the beat than the melody. Beethoven’s music was generally more complex than rock, but plenty of his melodies could be done with a rock beat. This might be true of Rachmaninoff too. When I was a young-un, the family had an album of Rachmaninoff tunes played on the piano in a jazzy beat. The album was titled “Will Success Spoil Rock-Maninoff?” and featured a photo of the pianist (a comely young female sort of person) playing at the Grand Piano, with a bust of Rachmaninoff wearing ear muffs. Anybody else here remember that album? ETA: Here, I googled that for me. The pianist is Rosa Linda. Here’s [the cover photo](http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3252/2600537967_1294a69647_z.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/17 "2013-03-10T04:56:49Z")
There’s not a lot of Beethoven (though there’s some), but there’s a surprisingly large number of metal bands that take classical music (seems to be a lot of Bach) and turn it into metal. Sometimes they don’t really do anything but add drums in the background. For example: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-A7DhOQ1p0) Another: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BmtRh53D34) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/18 "2013-03-10T13:31:52Z")
> [@wabsnazsm](#): > > I’m not by any stretch the imagination, a classical music buff but I was wondering, how close did Beethoven get to writing a rock n roll tune? Can anything that he wrote be classed as “bluesy?” How old IS rock music? Hmmmm? In terms of replicating the specific rhythms and structures, not much - but in terms of intent, Ludwig wrote stuff that was similar. His “riff” within the 5th - Da Da Da Dahhh - is as riffy as Smoke on the Water. Dude was a headbanger. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethoven-and-co/652479/19 "2013-03-11T15:17:29Z")
If you’re looking for classical (with a small c; it’s actually Romantic) music that can be turned into rock (or jazz), Tchaikovsky is a good source. Ex.: “[Nutrocker.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op2U-qGUDkg)”