# Beethoven's Deafness **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 15, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285 "2010-10-15T19:55:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285/21 "2010-10-27T04:29:40Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I submit the hypothosis, that Beethoven may have suffered from a catastrophic level of tinnitus that, combined with natural hearing loss due to aging, left him unable to hear anything but the noises in his own head. Sorry, but the evidence mostly contradicts your hypothesis. - Tinnitus occurs inside the head, and is usually not helped by devices to concentrate or amplify sound waves. Yet Beethoven used various ear trumpets, etc. for quite a while, with some success. - Tinnitus if fairly stable; only slight increased effect on hearing as a person ages. But Beethoven’s hearing loss clearly got worse as he aged, typical of normal (non-tinnitus) hearing loss. - Tinnitus is a symptom that most commonly occurs during quiet times (no outside sounds entering the ear). Beethoven’s hearing problems occurred during non-quiet times – he was trying to hear a piano or even a whole orchestra. Your hypothesis doesn’t seem to fit the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285/22 "2010-10-27T04:42:55Z")
Though, from what I’ve read, the Czech composer Bedrich Smetana did suffer from tinnitus. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285/23 "2010-10-27T09:02:52Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Heah, it’s just like a house painter can still paint a house if blind. He remembers what houses and colors look like. The problem with that is the part about putting the brush or roller in the right spot and at the right amount of pressure while blind. Designing home décor while blind, or drawing in color while colorblind (see the works of Ciruelo Cabral) can be done, though. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Maybe a better analogy would be a master programmer writing source code without having a computer to try it out on. I’m not a master programmer but the little programming I’ve done took place before it was possible to have a window with text and one with your program open at the same time, so we’d write the code on paper, type it, correct any errors, retype… until it worked. There were several times we got simple programs to work correctly on the first typing, no corrections needed. I also had a boss who, while horrible about communication, kept track of every table, field, their relationships and the programs using them in this huge database we were building, all in her head (she even remembered the flipping long-ass names). ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285/24 "2010-10-27T15:25:26Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Sorry, but the evidence mostly contradicts your hypothesis. > > - Tinnitus occurs inside the head, and is usually not helped by devices to concentrate or amplify sound waves. Yet Beethoven used various ear trumpets, etc. for quite a while, with some success. > - Tinnitus if fairly stable; only slight increased effect on hearing as a person ages. But Beethoven’s hearing loss clearly got worse as he aged, typical of normal (non-tinnitus) hearing loss. > - Tinnitus is a symptom that most commonly occurs during quiet times (no outside sounds entering the ear). Beethoven’s hearing problems occurred during non-quiet times – he was trying to hear a piano or even a whole orchestra. > > Your hypothesis doesn’t seem to fit the facts. I may not have presented the idea very clearly - I mean to say was the **combination** of severe tinnitus and a loss of hearing. Sadly, until I return home, Wiki is the only resource I have. In the article on Beethoven and his hearing loss, tinnitus is the first symptom mentioned - > [@](#): > > Around 1796, Beethoven began to lose his hearing.[43] He suffered a severe form of tinnitus, a “ringing” in his ears that made it hard for him to perceive and appreciate music; he also avoided conversation. The cause of Beethoven’s deafness is unknown, but it has variously been attributed to syphilis, lead poisoning, typhus, auto-immune disorder (such as systemic lupus erythematosus), and even his habit of immersing his head in cold water to stay awake. The explanation, from the autopsy of the time, is that he had a “distended inner ear” which developed lesions over time. Because of the high levels of lead found in samples of Beethoven’s hair, that hypothesis has been extensively analyzed. While the likelihood of lead poisoning is very high, the deafness associated with it seldom takes the form that Beethoven exhibited. From the Wiki article on tinnitus - > [@](#): > > Most people with tinnitus have hearing loss,[7] in that they are often unable to properly hear external sounds which occur within the same range of frequencies as their “phantom sounds.” [8] This has led to the suggestion that one cause of tinnitus might be a homeostatic response of central dorsal cochlear nucleus auditory neurons that makes them hyperactive in compensation to auditory input loss.[9] > The sound perceived may range from a quiet background noise to one that can be heard even over loud external sounds. The term “tinnitus” usually refers to more severe cases. You may well be right that my hypothesis doesn’t hold water - at any rate, what I mostly wanted to point out was that deafness does not necessarily mean hearing silence instead of sound - it may well mean that the sound you wish to hear is buried in noise. As far as determining what it was exactly, we’re just up against a lack of diagnostic evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285/25 "2010-10-27T15:32:15Z")
I missed the edit window - From the Wiki article on Tinnitus, in the chapter on causes of tinnitus, loud sounds are listed as a potential cause - > [@](#): > > Subjective tinnitus can have many possible causes, but most commonly results from otologic disorders – the same conditions that cause hearing loss. The most common cause is noise-induced hearing loss, resulting from exposure to excessive or loud noises. But tinnitus, along with sudden onset hearing loss, may have no obvious external cause. Ototoxic drugs can cause subjective tinnitus either secondary to hearing loss or without hearing loss, and may increase the damage done by exposure to loud noise, even at doses that are not in themselves ototoxic.[20] If Beethoven had a predisposition to tinnitus, or a particular sensitivity that allowed loud sounds to cause tinnitus more readily, it could very well be that his work with orchestras of the day exacerbated the problem. Many modern musicians, in classical music and in rock, have had their calling cause their deafness. Yes, Beethoven’s orchestras weren’t as loud as a modern orchestra - that’s why I included the remark about a predisposition. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285/26 "2024-05-06T22:13:50Z")
Some new research just out (perhaps someone could provide a gift link): > [Kevin Brown](https://beethovenscholar.com/index.php/2023/03/22/three-authentic-beethoven-locks/), an Australian businessman with a passion for Beethoven, owned three of the locks [of hair] and wanted to honor Beethoven’s [request](https://lvbeethoven.com/biography/the-heiligenstadt-testament/) in 1802 that when he died doctors might attempt to figure out why he had been so ill. Mr. Brown sent two locks to a specialized lab at the Mayo Clinic that has the equipment and expertise to test for heavy metals… > > The result, said Paul Jannetto, the lab director, was stunning. One of Beethoven’s locks had 258 micrograms of lead per gram of hair and the other had 380 micrograms. A normal level in hair is less than 4 micrograms of lead per gram. “It definitely shows Beethoven was exposed to high concentrations of lead,” Dr. Jannetto said. “These are the highest values in hair I’ve ever seen,” he added. “We get samples from around the world and these values are an order of magnitude higher.” > **[Locks of Beethoven’s Hair Offer New Clues to the Mystery of His Deafness](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/health/beethoven-deaf-lead-hair.html)** > > Using powerful technologies, scientists found staggering amounts of lead and other toxic substances in the composer’s hair that may have come from wine, or other sources. Here is the open access study: > **[High Lead Levels in 2 Independent and Authenticated Locks of Beethoven’s Hair](https://academic.oup.com/clinchem/advance-article/doi/10.1093/clinchem/hvae054/7651113)** > > The composer Ludwig van Beethoven’s health issues throughout his life are well documented, with many conjectures on the cause of his death from liver and k ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285/27 "2024-05-08T05:05:58Z")
I heard on the radio, and the New York Times article also mentions, that May 7th was the 200th anniversary of the premier of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285/28 "2024-05-08T05:37:49Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Some new research just out (perhaps someone could provide a gift link): Gift link: > **[Locks of Beethoven’s Hair Offer New Clues to the Mystery of His Deafness](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/health/beethoven-deaf-lead-hair.html?unlocked_article_code=1.qU0.NJlj.rObfpg8e1aoW&smid=url-share)** > > Using powerful technologies, scientists found staggering amounts of lead and other toxic substances in the composer’s hair that may have come from wine, or other sources. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beethovens-deafness/557285.md?page=1)